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Tyrell

TSL is best played as a DS or LS character?

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With KOTOR I believe playing through as a LS character (Male or Female) was in my mind the idea way for KOTOR. It makes of a better overall story as well, you know....Revan coming back and defeating Malak and saving the Republic. DS could be ideal for KOTOR as well as Revan takes back his role as Sith Lord but I believe the LS way is more ideal for KOTOR.

 

Then we have TSL the more darker version of the two. While playing through KOTOR as the LS Revan fitted KOTOR more (Atleast to me). I believe playing through as the DS Exile is more fitting for TSL. It also helps out with the darker tone in TSL. Instead of trying to go Luke Skywalker and saving the Galaxy which fitted LS Revan more in KOTOR. I believe revenge is a better motive in TSL. The exile seeking revenge on those who casted him out of the Jedi Order for doing what he believed was right.

 

Ever since he (or she) was casted out of the order from there he created this huge hate for the Jedi and the Republic they serve. This would give the exile motives to the many DS choices in the game. The exiles movites wouldn't be to become THE NEXT Sith Lord but to just take revenge against all Jedi. These Jedi being the Jedi on the counsil who casted him out of the order. The exile would consider himself neither Sith or Jedi but more of a person of the force. Much like Keria.

 

Its a lot to explain but I believe going through as a Darkside character is more fitting in TSL then going through as a Lightsider.

 

What do you guys think?

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Interesting, Tyrell.

 

Do you think one can amass enough DS points (thereby gaining a prestige class), simply by acting out against the Jedi in revenge and disdain for the weak infrasructure that is the Republic? One may still think of roleplaying the 'avenger' character as a seeker of justice as well, hence the helping of innocents persecuted by oppressors. :cool:

 

Maybe this type of character isn't really dark side at all....or perhaps the means is no less important than the ends. :rolleyes:


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Interesting, Tyrell. 

 

Do you think one can amass enough DS points (thereby gaining a prestige class), simply by acting out against the Jedi in revenge and disdain for the  weak infrasructure that is the Republic?  One may still think of roleplaying the 'avenger' character as a seeker of justice as well, hence the helping of innocents persecuted by oppressors.  :cool:

 

Maybe this type of character isn't really dark side at all....or perhaps the means is no less important than the ends.  :thumbsup:

 

 

Very true and with my DS character I DO do a lot of good deeds for people. Cause in all that is the very essence of this character. He wanted to help people. THAT is why he went to fight in the war. Cause he didn't want the Mandalorians taking over. Thats why the exile grows this hate for the Jedi cause they casted him out of the order. So now the exile is taking the Death to ALL Jedi and to ANYONE who stands in my way type route. And even though you can do good deeds to people to get many DS points, there is many times where things DO get in your way to kill the Jedi and there is many instances where you'll get DS points for going against those who even have the slightest connection to Jedi. Take Onderon for an example.

 

Like I said it is hard to explain but it works out very well in the end.

 

I find myself enjoying TSL more the 2nd time through as a Darksider cause I believe it fits the story better.

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Makes perfect sense to me, especially the Onderon thing. Canderous and Visas were both rather inclined to aiding General Vaklu as opposed to Queen Talia due to his strong leadership. As the queen is weak, perhaps it isn't in the best interests of helping the people, even more so if she supports the ever failing Repbulic.

 

So I assume you character aided the refugees on Nar Shaddaa against the Exchange and the settlers against the Dantooine mercs? :thumbsup:

 

I'm also interested in how you resolved the Telos situation. That Jana Lorsa was rather charming and I found her persuation/explanation rather plausible - perhaps the Ithorians were wasting valuable Republic credits on a project they'd doom to failure. Maybe the Czerka approach would be favorable to your current character....

 

What do you think? :devil:


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I'm also interested in how you resolved the Telos situation.  That Jana Lorsa was rather charming and I found her persuation/explanation rather plausible - perhaps the Ithorians were wasting valuable Republic credits on a project they'd doom to failure.  Maybe the Czerka approach would be favorable to your current character....

 

What do you think?  :thumbsup:

 

Lorsa's spiel really had me going too. SIDEQUEST SPOILAGE AHEAD:

 

 

Everything she said was real plausible and it arguably makes more sense in the short-run (which is all corporations and governemnts can think in anyway) to be sure to tie economic development into environmental restoration. I stopped playing for a while to think about it.

 

But I think the way it plays out you find out that all Lorsa's politically correct enviro-speak was just the smokescreen Czerka puts up to hide the fact they're trying to use the project to milk the Republic for credits.

 

I realized she was lying when she asked me to steal a 2nd-rate droid from the Ithorian (sp?) guys. If they really had a good business plan for restoring Telos, they wouldn't need to steal and they wouldn't use a second-rate droid.

 

 

 

How do you black that stuff out? I tried color=black but it didn't help...

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Okay with my DS character he has the The Republic is weak idea. That they do need to be destroyed and a more powerful order needs to take shape. What order would that be? He doesn't know but he does know that the Republic needs to throw in the towel. I mean without the Jedi, the Republic would have lost the Mandalorian War. In his eyes they have been weak since the end of the Exar Kun war.

 

He also believes in the strongest survives theory. That the weaker solution should be thrown away and the stronger one should step up.

 

So in cases where the republic is supported, he would go against that like going against the Queen on Onderon. On Telos the strongest srvives thing comes into play. He believes the Czerka is the stronger organization to help rebuild Telos whereas the Ithorian are just some Hippy type peace loving creators who won't be able to stand on their own two feet without aid. He believe in the long run that the Czerka would be the better fit. Besides, the Czerka doesn't have all that much love for the Republic anyways.

 

With Nar Shaddaa that would be tricky. I don't know how I'm going to handle it.

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Well I hate being a nice guy so I prefer the Dark side, but I see what you mean. I liked the LS ending a lot more... in fact, it's the only end I like. Why did I

assume the dark throne

if I told Traya I want to follow Revan?

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With Nar Shaddaa that would be tricky. I don't know how I'm going to handle it.

I had the same problem with my DS playthrough. Where does one draw the line between protecting the innocent/rooting out injustice with the survival of the fittest doctrines? :)


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My first playthrough of the game was as a lightsider, and I thought it was the way the game was meant to be played, given the kind of emotions it stirred up in me. I didn't want revenge, so much as I wanted to know the Councils reasons for not getting involved and staying home in comfort while we fought and died to keep the galaxy safe.

 

I was so convinced that I (er, the Exile) did the right thing by fighting in the wars, I was extremely defiant and self-assured early on, like when I talked to Atris. And then I learned of all that Malachor wrought, all that happened because of that one war and that final battle...

 

I (er, my character) was so upset by the constant mentioning of the effects of the wars that by the time I met the masters on Dantooine, I just gave up and didn't put up a fight.

 

Then Kreia walks in, slaughters everyone, and says that she knows now why I didn't follow Revan and Malak after the war... I was weak and afraid. :ermm: Maybe I was.

 

That part of the game was one of the best things in it, to me anyway.

 

To get back to the question, I think it's best played LS :)

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I think both KotOR1 and 2 are more fitted to playing a lightside Male to be honest!

 

The story just flows alot smoother imo.

 

I have tried both games as darkside male and female and while still great games, the over all storyline seemed alot more choppy in places.

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I can honestly say I don't know why anyone would play TSL as anything other than a DSer. Seriously. The game is just so much funner and much more immersive.

 

In other threads I complained pretty loudly about all the things I thought were not quite right about this game. But after playing DS, now I'm not so sure. I mean, the game flowed alot better, made ALOT more sense, and actually filled in some of the plotholes that seem to be present when playing LS.

 

Plus, as Tyrell pointed out, your character being dark just fits the tone of this game alot better. In fact, just think about it for a second. Chris Avallone (sorry if I spelled that wrong) said that your character in TSL is a tortured character with a tortured past. And everything that you see and experience in this game has such a dark feel to it. It is, without a doubt, The Empire Strikes Back of the KOTOR series. Even if they never do a third one.

 

I mean, seriously. If you played DS, your character

assumed the role of Darth Traya, essentially, and now dwells within the depths of Malachor V

. Hell, YOUR CHARACTER appears on the home screen at the end of the game if you were playing DS. That's a PERFECT ENDING AND A SETUP for a possilbe return for LS Revan in KOTOR 3 to complete Revan's saga. He or she would trace the Exile's presence and realize that

the wound in the Force that the Exile represents and is causing has provided some sort of a link to the True Sith. And those Sith, the real Sith, are now hell bent on finding the Exile and exploiting the wound. To put an end to the Jedi once and for all. So, in essence, the Exile has called the True Sith to him/her. And an LS Revan would return to try to rally an army to combat this. And btw, the Exile by now has become nearly unkillable. Kind of like the Sith'ari mentioned in KOTOR 1

 

 

Anyway, if you played KOTOR 1 LS and KOTOR 2 DS, they make perfect sense together. And you kind of see TSL for what it truly is: only the middle chapter of a much larger story.

 

Unless you played LS, then it makes no sense whatsoever.

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I can honestly say I don't know why anyone would play TSL as anything other than a DSer.  Seriously.  The game is just so much funner and much more immersive.

 

In other threads I complained pretty loudly about all the things I thought were not quite right about this game.  But after playing DS, now I'm not so sure.  I mean, the game flowed alot better, made ALOT more sense, and actually filled in some of the plotholes that seem to be present when playing LS.

 

Plus, as Tyrell pointed out, your character being dark just fits the tone of this game alot better.  In fact, just think about it for a second.  Chris Avallone (sorry if I spelled that wrong) said that your character in TSL is a tortured character with a tortured past.  And everything that you see and experience in this game has such a dark feel to it.  It is, without a doubt, The Empire Strikes Back of the KOTOR series.  Even if they never do a third one.

 

I mean, seriously.  If you played DS, your character

assumed the role of Darth Traya, essentially, and now dwells within the depths of Malachor V

. Hell, YOUR CHARACTER appears on the home screen at the end of the game if you were playing DS.  That's a PERFECT ENDING AND A SETUP for a possilbe return for  LS Revan in KOTOR 3 to complete Revan's saga.  He or she would trace the Exile's presence and realize that

the wound in the Force that the Exile represents and is causing has provided some sort of a link to the True Sith.  And those Sith, the real Sith, are now hell bent on finding the Exile and exploiting the wound. To put an end to the Jedi once and for all.  So, in essence, the Exile has called the True Sith to him/her.  And an LS Revan would return to try to rally an army to combat this.  And btw, the Exile by now has become nearly unkillable. Kind of like the Sith'ari mentioned in KOTOR 1

 

 

Anyway, if you played KOTOR 1 LS and KOTOR 2 DS, they make perfect sense together.  And you kind of see TSL for what it truly is: only the middle chapter of a much larger story.

 

Unless you played LS, then it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Disagree Jebus,

 

The story does make more sence as lightside.

 

Lets look at the whole picture, As Lightside it makes sence you would chase after Revan to eliminate the upcoming threat. As DarkSide you "Might" chase after Revan, but more then likely now you have followers and the jedi are all but gone you would instead solidify your position in the known realm before trapsing off after Revan.

 

Dantooine is ripe for the pickings (IE: setting up operations and controling the world of Dantooine basically

Korriban is waiting for you to uncover lost secrets and solidify your hold over it.

Onderon is ripe for setting up either a evil alliance UNDER your command or flat out takeing it over under your command (with the aid of the mandalorians).

Telos is already under your command but Atris (depending on your choice of actions) needs to be watched and not just left to grow in power.

The exchange has been broken on Nar Shadaar and ripe for you to set up a underground network there.

Not to mention you solidifying your hold on Malacor V.

 

Point is, as DS there is a ton of stuff that will need you immediate attention, Revans quest really isnt one of them. That is unless you wish to play a dumb evil that doesnt understand the finesse of power other then simple slaughtering.

 

Even before the end the story makes much more sence on the lightside. If you played Evil you most likely killed the jedi masters, yet there they are after you have killed them in the jedi enclave waiting for you. As lightside you dont kill them and while them trying to seperate you from the force makes little sence it still plays better then th e dead coming back to life in a matter of days/weeks.

 

Lastly there is the party your with. Every character in party makes alot more sence (joining you wise) when you go Lightside! Handmaiden realizes Atris has turned Sith, seriously , why would she join you since you also turned sith. Story is incomplete there. Inconsistant.

Bao Dur same story. Bao (even at full ds rating) is not evil. Hes not. Force bound be damned, Bao is not going to turn evil, from what he says and does that is very appearent.

Atton is the same way, he already ran away from the sith once, do you think hes going to stick around for a second try? Of course not!

 

All 3 of those characters are Lightside characters (even when you go DS), they are going to follow the Jedi ways in the long run.

 

Not flaming but I dont follow how you can say there is greater immersion or story makes more sence as a DS Exile. The game just doesnt back that claim up is all.

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You make really good points. But in my DS game, I sided with the queen on Onderon, so Kavar survived. I killed Vrook and Zez Kai-El, so only Kavar was waiting for me on Dantooine. It was very realistic. It was just me vs. him. And when I walked into the enclave, there was no long dialogue or anything. It was basically:

 

KAVAR: I know what you've done to the other Masters. DRAW!

PC: Pathetic fool, you will die where you stand.

 

Two seconds later, Kavar was dead and Kreia was calling me a failure, and fled before I could kill her.

 

But the exchange I had with her was such a GREAT setup for the game's climax. It just made more sense to me and answered alot of the questions I had when I played it LS.

 

Obviously, other people have different experiences, but for me, it was DS all the way.

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I always thought the game was best played neutral, more or less. For me, the Exile believed the Republic was weak, but needed to be protected as it was better than the slaughter of the Mandalorians or Sith. The Jedi Council were weak fools that deserved retribution for what they had done to both her and the Republic by not participating in the wars. (Of course, she and Atris did not get along very well in-game.)

 

it was interesting how, in TSL, you could kill the Jedi Council and still get the lightside ending. I was afraid the game would just assume the darkside ending for the player if you had done that. (One annoying thing, though--can you actually choose your ending? I got the lightside one automatically as that was closest to my character's alignement.)

 

KAVAR: I know what you've done to the other Masters. DRAW!

PC: Pathetic fool, you will die where you stand.

 

The same thing happened to me, except I had only killed Vrook. I wanted a chance to explain WHY I had killed him to the other masters, at least. :(

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I am not far into my game yet, but it seems that KOTOR2 has way more "grey zones" than KOTOR1 did. You're not allways presented with the ultimate evil/good option, sometimes your choices may have unforseen consequences of either good or evil caracter.

 

Personally, in my first try through, I do what I think is right, and in line with the background information of the main char. I defend the weak, I help those who truely need help. I listen to my own inner voice, not the reasoning presented to me by others, and I don't take well to lectures.

 

It's great, and despite my char moving to the LS, there have been plenty of places where DS has shown it's face. The storyline has me hooked just as much, if not more, than KOTOR1 did. And while I haven't completed the game multiple times, I hope there are rewarding results for both good, evil and those that seek neutral status.

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With KOTOR I believe playing through as a LS character (Male or Female) was in my mind the idea way for KOTOR. It makes of a better overall story as well, you know....Revan coming back and defeating Malak and saving the Republic. DS could be ideal for KOTOR as well as Revan takes back his role as Sith Lord but I believe the LS way is more ideal for KOTOR.

 

Then we have TSL the more darker version of the two. While playing through KOTOR as the LS Revan fitted KOTOR more (Atleast to me). I believe playing through as the DS Exile is more fitting for TSL. It also helps out with the darker tone in TSL. Instead of trying to go Luke Skywalker and saving the Galaxy which fitted LS Revan more in KOTOR. I believe revenge is a better motive in TSL. The exile seeking revenge on those who casted him out of the Jedi Order for doing what he believed was right.

 

Ever since he (or she) was casted out of the order from there he created this huge hate for the Jedi and the Republic they serve. This would give the exile motives to the many DS choices in the game. The exiles movites wouldn't be to become THE NEXT Sith Lord but to just take revenge against all Jedi. These Jedi being the Jedi on the counsil who casted him out of the order. The exile would consider himself neither Sith or Jedi but more of a person of the force. Much like Keria.

 

Its a lot to explain but I believe going through as a Darkside character is more fitting in TSL then going through as a Lightsider.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I agree fully.

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With KOTOR I believe playing through as a LS character (Male or Female) was in my mind the idea way for KOTOR. It makes of a better overall story as well, you know....Revan coming back and defeating Malak and saving the Republic. DS could be ideal for KOTOR as well as Revan takes back his role as Sith Lord but I believe the LS way is more ideal for KOTOR.

 

Then we have TSL the more darker version of the two. While playing through KOTOR as the LS Revan fitted KOTOR more (Atleast to me). I believe playing through as the DS Exile is more fitting for TSL. It also helps out with the darker tone in TSL. Instead of trying to go Luke Skywalker and saving the Galaxy which fitted LS Revan more in KOTOR. I believe revenge is a better motive in TSL. The exile seeking revenge on those who casted him out of the Jedi Order for doing what he believed was right.

 

Ever since he (or she) was casted out of the order from there he created this huge hate for the Jedi and the Republic they serve. This would give the exile motives to the many DS choices in the game. The exiles movites wouldn't be to become THE NEXT Sith Lord but to just take revenge against all Jedi. These Jedi being the Jedi on the counsil who casted him out of the order. The exile would consider himself neither Sith or Jedi but more of a person of the force. Much like Keria.

 

Its a lot to explain but I believe going through as a Darkside character is more fitting in TSL then going through as a Lightsider.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I agree fully.

 

Tyr, there is a problem with that tho. I do understand (and actually agree) regarding being more like Kreia but here is the difference.

 

Regardless of the Darth Traya junk, Kreia was neutral and walked the nuetral line for all of the story really excluding the end. She wasnt DS. By your analogy neither would the exile be DS.

 

He was trained as LS, and jedi counsel be damned, his fundemental ideals (as he CHOSE not to follow Malak and Raven after Malacor V) would be based in lightside style of thinking (IE: help when he can, dont cause pain to other intentionally, ect). Sure he might not kiss babies and hand out credits but his thinking/morals would still be based more towards the lightside of the force.

 

For that matter he might even choose to kill the 4 jedi masters for revenge, but they SPECIFICAL caused him pain and unjustly punished him. That doesnt mean he will go on a murderous rampage because he killed those 3 masters, doesnt mean he would intentional bring harm to others (IE: not healing the sick, not sticking up for the poor, not defending those who cant defend themselves). Just because he wants revenge and is no longer titled a jedi doesnt mean he forgets who and what he is at his core.

 

The one key point that totally truely eliminates the DS path tho is the Exile walked away from war because of the damage and suffering he had caused. Last time I checked "REMORSE" was not a quality looked for in a DS character.

 

As I said to Jag, there is to many things that dont make sence when you go DS in TSL, the lightside just seems to fit into place and make more sence over all. Not a perfect LS Jedi, but they stress the fact your NOT a jedi even tho you are LS throughout the whole game. Your idea of him being neither Sith nor Jedi but a Force user makes perfect sence, but if that s the case then you need to look at the characters history to see what side he would have tendancies towards. Everything we know about him suggests he would remain Lightside (with the one exception of taking revenge on the masters that exiled him).

 

Think about it:

 

Why did he goto war? Because the Mandalorians had to be stoped! (IE: in defence of others)......Honorable motives

Why didnt he follow Revan and Malak to the dark side? Because deep down he knows right from wrong....Again a lightside characteristic

Why did he return to the counsel knowing already he would be cast out (and yes he knew what the result of showing up there would be)....To explain his actions so hopefully they could see the GOOD that came from his actions.

 

Everything about the Exile suggests GOODNESS is his normal characteristic. Agree not Luke Skywalker goody goody garbage. Exile has demons and more of a edge to be sure, but in the end he made a concious choice to remain LS before TSL game actualy started.

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With KOTOR I believe playing through as a LS character (Male or Female) was in my mind the idea way for KOTOR. It makes of a better overall story as well, you know....Revan coming back and defeating Malak and saving the Republic. DS could be ideal for KOTOR as well as Revan takes back his role as Sith Lord but I believe the LS way is more ideal for KOTOR.

 

Then we have TSL the more darker version of the two. While playing through KOTOR as the LS Revan fitted KOTOR more (Atleast to me). I believe playing through as the DS Exile is more fitting for TSL. It also helps out with the darker tone in TSL. Instead of trying to go Luke Skywalker and saving the Galaxy which fitted LS Revan more in KOTOR. I believe revenge is a better motive in TSL. The exile seeking revenge on those who casted him out of the Jedi Order for doing what he believed was right.

 

Ever since he (or she) was casted out of the order from there he created this huge hate for the Jedi and the Republic they serve. This would give the exile motives to the many DS choices in the game. The exiles movites wouldn't be to become THE NEXT Sith Lord but to just take revenge against all Jedi. These Jedi being the Jedi on the counsil who casted him out of the order. The exile would consider himself neither Sith or Jedi but more of a person of the force. Much like Keria.

 

Its a lot to explain but I believe going through as a Darkside character is more fitting in TSL then going through as a Lightsider.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I agree fully.

 

Think about it:

 

Why did he goto war? Because the Mandalorians had to be stoped! (IE: in defence of others)......Honorable motives

Why didnt he follow Revan and Malak to the dark side? Because deep down he knows right from wrong....Again a lightside characteristic

Why did he return to the counsel knowing already he would be cast out (and yes he knew what the result of showing up there would be)....To explain his actions so hopefully they could see the GOOD that came from his actions.

 

Everything about the Exile suggests GOODNESS is his normal characteristic. Agree not Luke Skywalker goody goody garbage. Exile has demons and more of a edge to be sure, but in the end he made a concious choice to remain LS before TSL game actualy started.

 

The only problem with this argument is the fact that you are given an opportunity on numerous occasions throughout the game to explain why you went to the Mandalorian War. And, during the holovid of your trial, you can tell the Council exactly why you returned. If I remember correctly, I believe one of your options is, "Because I wanted to show you how cowardly you have been." Or something to that effect.

 

So basically, if you were playing DS, the game gives you the option of being DS through and through. It even gives you the opportunity to shape what kind of Jedi you were in the past. Even as far as what type of lightsaber you wielded.

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The only problem with this argument is the fact that you are given an opportunity on numerous occasions throughout the game to explain why you went to the Mandalorian War.  And, during the holovid of your trial, you can tell the Council exactly why you returned.  If I remember correctly, I believe one of your options is, "Because I wanted to show you how cowardly you have been." Or something to that effect.

 

So basically, if you were playing DS, the game gives you the option of being DS through and through.  It even gives you the opportunity to shape what kind of Jedi you were in the past.  Even as far as what type of lightsaber you wielded.

 

sure Jebus, but again.

 

Hating the council doesnt make you DS.

LOL, in fact a arguement can be made that killing the council members is REALLY a LS act (well ok im pushing it, but killing Vrook and Artis are NOT DS acts, that much for sure).

 

The council was cowardly and their cowerdess was costing innocents their lives. So calling them cowardly doesnt specifically mean your DS.

 

The end result was you broke the coucils commands to server the greater good by going to war. You walked away from Revan and Malak once that war was finished so it wasnt the call of power or the dark side that guided your actions.

 

True about the options (Obsidian did a great job), but there is holes in the Dark side story that dont add up.

 

I mean if your following the Dark Side, why not follow Revan as he was the strongest? Why return to the council as you know you will be outnumbered and punished. Everything in that pre story suggests remorse (not afraid as Kreia states). Your anger at the Jedi Counsil is understandable, heck its valid! But that anger alone isnt going to push you over the edge when your priciples are set so strongly in the LS. Even by Star Wars lore it would take someone breaking you or other things as well to push you over the edge. And those extra things are never mentioned what so ever so one has to assume you time away while exiled was spent in reflection.

 

There just isnt anything in the pre story that suggests you have gone to the dark side. So while you "CAN" play dark side in game, it still all fits more snuggly into place going lightside. There isnt nagging little questions left on the whys and whats and such that are found in the DS story.

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like the first one, you gotta experience the game both LS and DS, imho!

 

I preferred DS in KOTOR1, and LS in KOTOR2 (just barely, although corrupting my party members is great fun!)

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