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DrSpock

For Those That Love This Game...

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

 

There's a whole thread on this in the General Discussion.

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I disagree. I liked KoTOR II because of the prestige classes, more feats and more force powers. The story may not have been as polished as the first, but I didn't care because I LOVE ANYTHING STAR WARS!! Seriously, the rpg quality was a great influence for me buying the first game but the chance to be a Star Wars character and choose my own path; priceless! Game play is still what I believe to be high quality and it has the same re-play value as KoTOR I. There are just so many things that you can do or do not. I can't help myself. I am a big Star Wars fan!!

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

 

 

I'll answer it. This is the best storyline I've ever seen in a game and better than many of the Star Wars novels too. It sure as hell beats anything Lucas could write. It's simply too complicated or too dark for some people. Some people just don't get it. Yeah, it' s a better story than the first one, has better music, more interesting characters, deeper character development, better dialogue., etc. I don't know what game you're playing but it can't be this one.

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

 

For myself I think KotOR2 is as good as the first one (not better, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, similar end result tho):

 

1) Storyline: I found the storyline to be much more advanced then the first one. It had a more mature theme to it then KotOR1 had. As a older gamer, I grow tired of the simplistic storylines so appreciate when any game designer incorperates a more mature nature to the game (no im not talking about porn and swearing, neither of those mean mature imo). There were twists, intrige, betreyals, multiple romances, politics added into part 2s storyline. I really think its the better of the two storylines but for some reason didnt run as smoothly as part 1s (that might be because of all the extras involved in part 2s story).

 

2) Characters: I felt much closer to more characters in kotor2 then I did in part 1. I found myself thinking of them as actual characters rather then npc party members for the most part (exceptions being GOTO (which I totally hated) and Hanhaar). In part one I really was only interested in my character, Bastila, and Carth. None of the other characters managed to grab me and maintain my attention for the whole game! At the end of part 2, even tho Kreia tells you their futures, I fouynd myself wanting to know more about them and what happens. I just didnt have that feeling after part 1 in terms of characters.

 

3) far as the engine and all that, I really didnt notice a difference (other then new force powers) between 1 and 2. It was the actual story that hooked me this time around. KotOR1 was a awsome game and hooked me on Star Wars (altho that Repubic demo turned me totally and completely back off, gawd I hate mindless FPS's). At the end of one I just wanted to play more! It wasnt enough, I wanted more game. At the end of two (as I said above) I not only wanted to play more again, but I wanted to know what happens to each character!!!

 

4) and to be honest I prefered starting as a jedi in part2. I always hated part 1 for those levels before you become a jedi. Just wasnt my cup of tea in that regard.

 

In the end, I think part 1 was more polished and definately ran smoother, but I think part 2 was the bigger undertaking and took KotOR series out of the kiddies land and placed it firmly in the hands of a mature design for adults. Part 1 was great fun but its story wasnt anything beyond that of a teen agers novel. Part 2 was in many ways darker and more complexe.

 

Anyways, thats my take on it :) Love both games and cant wait for part 3 :)

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I dont care about the pesimists opinion on KotOR II because it seems there are more people who enjoyed it then those that didn't, not to mention several well known web sites and magazines have all given KotOR II good ratings. Some even think it is better than KotOR I! That is what makes me want to buy the game.


"Some people are always trying to iceskate uphill."

Blade(Wesley Snipes) from the movie Blade.

Edited for content

 

"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." - Sigmund Freud

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I'll answer it. This is the best storyline I've ever seen in a game and better than many of the Star Wars novels too. It sure as hell beats anything Lucas could write. It's simply too complicated or too dark for some people. Some people just don't get it. Yeah, it' s a better story than the first one, has better music, more interesting characters, deeper character development, better dialogue., etc. I don't know what game you're playing but it can't be this one.

 

Are you joking?! If you think this story line is "complicated" as you put it then you're just plain imagining things that are in the game that are simply not there. The story is by no means cohesive, there are many huge plot holes, and there is no ending. How is that better? A lot of people have a tendency to impose on a game their own stories or impressions. Games are not meant for you to have to make up your own explanations and stories in your mind to be complete. This game was rushed, as everyone knows, and it sure shows.

 

And the fact that you bash George Lucas, shows you are not a true Star Wars fan. In case you hadn't noticed, Star Wars is George Lucas. It is his idea, his dream, his story, and his movies that created the universe in which you play this game and you now speak of. Being foolish enough to insult George Lucas' storytelling really shows that you have no idea what a good Star Wars story is, because if you don't like the originals, then how can you even make such a claim.

 

The people who love this game so adamently, and feel it is so superior to the 1st are either just living in a dream world or completely blind to the bugs, plot holes, and huge inconsistencies in this game.

 

And as for the game getting rave reviews from a lot of places... A lot of those game sites/reviewers are in game developers pockets far and wide. If you don't believe me go to IGN and notice the tons of banners that are for games, you know they don't put those up there for free right?

 

I have talked to a lot of people who have played this game, on this board and on Lucasarts, and many, many people are disappointed, of course most especially with the ending. If their voices are silent now it is simply because of the unavoidable fact that if you're disappointed with a game, you're not too likely to go on the boards and talk about it every day are you?

 

And I may have complaints about the game, but I did enjoy it all the way up to the end. It was so disappointing and it answered nothing, and that is why I have so many other issues with this game.

 

Finally, I made this post here because there is obviously a possibility of spoilers in such a post, and it doesn't belong in the general forum for that reason.

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Yikes!

 

Why ask if you take acception to the answers????

 

You asked and people gave you reasonable and realistic answers, dont turn this into anouther mindless flame post directed at Obsidian (like 4 other posters here love to do).

 

Also, George Lucas is a man, hes not a god and hes not perfect. You CAN be a Star Wars fan with out falling all over yourself at the mear mention of Lucas's name.

 

The original Star Wars was a great feel good Trilogy, but it was basically Cowboys and Indians in space! Lucas himself admitted as much many many years ago!

 

This storyline (in KotOR2) "ATTEMPTS" at being complicated. In many areas they succeeded, in some they failed! KotOR1 (again, was a awsome and great game) didnt even attempt at being complicated, you followed the dots to the end. There was never any question or surprises (other then you being Revan) at how it would play out.

 

But that attempt favors well in the longevity of this series and many more fun games to come in it.

 

PS: I read LA boards as well and dont see these endless complaints you mention. On these boards there is only 4 real complainers that say the game is trash! Sure they post 50 messages a day but its still only 4 people! Most complaints come from folks that missed a key sentance or phrase in game, once they find out they go back to supporting the game fully! 4 people doesnt even make a minority! They simply dont count or matter!

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Why ask if you take acception to the answers????

 

yeah, i was wondering the same thing myself. the guy asks for reasons from those who enjoyed the game, then goes about telling them theyre wrong.

 

its like one of those "ill tell you what your opinion is" posts. :)

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I'll answer it. This is the best storyline I've ever seen in a game and better than many of the Star Wars novels too. It sure as hell beats anything Lucas could write. It's simply too complicated or too dark for some people. Some people just don't get it. Yeah, it' s a better story than the first one, has better music, more interesting characters, deeper character development, better dialogue., etc. I don't know what game you're playing but it can't be this one.

 

Are you joking?! If you think this story line is "complicated" as you put it then you're just plain imagining things that are in the game that are simply not there. The story is by no means cohesive, there are many huge plot holes, and there is no ending. How is that better? A lot of people have a tendency to impose on a game their own stories or impressions. Games are not meant for you to have to make up your own explanations and stories in your mind to be complete. This game was rushed, as everyone knows, and it sure shows.

 

And the fact that you bash George Lucas, shows you are not a true Star Wars fan. In case you hadn't noticed, Star Wars is George Lucas. It is his idea, his dream, his story, and his movies that created the universe in which you play this game and you now speak of. Being foolish enough to insult George Lucas' storytelling really shows that you have no idea what a good Star Wars story is, because if you don't like the originals, then how can you even make such a claim.

 

The people who love this game so adamently, and feel it is so superior to the 1st are either just living in a dream world or completely blind to the bugs, plot holes, and huge inconsistencies in this game.

 

And as for the game getting rave reviews from a lot of places... A lot of those game sites/reviewers are in game developers pockets far and wide. If you don't believe me go to IGN and notice the tons of banners that are for games, you know they don't put those up there for free right?

 

I have talked to a lot of people who have played this game, on this board and on Lucasarts, and many, many people are disappointed, of course most especially with the ending. If their voices are silent now it is simply because of the unavoidable fact that if you're disappointed with a game, you're not too likely to go on the boards and talk about it every day are you?

 

And I may have complaints about the game, but I did enjoy it all the way up to the end. It was so disappointing and it answered nothing, and that is why I have so many other issues with this game.

 

Finally, I made this post here because there is obviously a possibility of spoilers in such a post, and it doesn't belong in the general forum for that reason.

 

 

Well, it is supposed to be the Empire Strikes Back of KOTOR, so you can't expect it to be fully complete. Besides, TSL is a great game for an 18 months' effort.

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first off, George Lucas is a one trick pony and a hack. He liberally ripped off Akira Kurosawa's "Kakushi toride no san akunin" (Hidden fortress) for Star Wars. His "original creations" episode I and II are atrocious.

 

now that thats out of the way....

 

Kotor 2 is better than Kotor 1. I was on the Xbox cert team for the first KOTOR and i can safely say that Kotor 2's load times are better nearly across the board. Couple that with the fact that the game areas are generally larger with more active characters on screen and it's safe to say that engine-wise Kotor 2 beats kotor 1.

 

Story-wise i enjoyed kotor 2 more, thanks to the more mature handling of the jedi/sith conflict, the inclusion of political intrigue, and a main character who wasn't just a walking cliche. Sure, there were some holes, but for the most part if you paid attention you could easily infer the information. 39 hours of solid enjoyment and an hour of 'meh" at the ending is a fair ratio in my mind.

 

I enjoyed the DS element of Kotor 2. Kotor 1's darkside path was often silly and cartoonish. I didn't want to play a disney villian, i wanted to be a dark and evil sith. Kotor 2 offered that.

 

I enjoyed playing as the Exile. Revan was, in my opinion, a weak character. Bioware was so heavy handed in how they handled Revan that you pretty much had everything figured out before you were even half-way to the end. The Exile at least kept you guessing and was a more believable character.

 

Kotor 1's NPCs for the most part were dull and 2 diminsional. the only ones that were interesting at all were Bastille and HK-47, although HK was more amusing than actually interesting. The rest just felt like filler. The only NPC i found dull in KOTOR 2 was Atton, since he just seemed like the generic han solo character.

 

All in all, Kotor 2 offered a richer game world to play in, richer NPCs to interact with, and more realistic grey areas to explore. Kotor 1 was enjoyable, but it tried too hard to play it safe with the storyline. I don't deny that there were bugs in Kotor 2 and i admit that i'm disappointed that the Droid World got cut. But that doesn't detract, for me, how good this game is.

 

oh, and if you want a fair view of how this game is being recieved by reviewers check out GameRankings. It's tabulates all the various reviews across the internet and averages the score. So far Kotor is well recieved, with an overall score of 87.1%.

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And the fact that you bash George Lucas, shows you are not a true Star Wars fan. In case you hadn't noticed, Star Wars is George Lucas. It is his idea, his dream, his story, and his movies that created the universe in which you play this game and you now speak of. Being foolish enough to insult George Lucas' storytelling really shows that you have no idea what a good Star Wars story is, because if you don't like the originals, then how can you even make such a claim.

 

The people who love this game so adamently, and feel it is so superior to the 1st are either just living in a dream world or completely blind to the bugs, plot holes, and huge inconsistencies in this game.

 

[...]

 

I have talked to a lot of people who have played this game, on this board and on Lucasarts, and many, many people are disappointed, of course most especially with the ending. If their voices are silent now it is simply because of the unavoidable fact that if you're disappointed with a game, you're not too likely to go on the boards and talk about it every day are you?

 

Perhaps the people who like this game have something in common with your good self, as you seem to have gotten to the heart of the matter and answered your own question without realizing it. There are millions of people, myself included, who enjoy the original trilogy - despite the cliched storytelling, the plot holes, and the huge inconsistancies in the films (not the least of which being Mark Hamill's FACE! :lol:) as well as the glitchy and sometimes plainly dodgy special effects. Why? Because those things pale in comparison with the experience of watching the films as a whole. We don't care that Boba Fett seems to be wearing a bedsheet, some mouse-mats and a back-mounted sink plunger, because we enjoy watching him. We can forgive the fact that luke skywalker is a whiney bitch-assed hoser simply because he's the guy with the lightsaber. We can ignore the very creepy incestuous kiss between luke and leia, the fact that the stormtroopers can't shoot worth ****, and Darth Vader's increasingly ridiculous outfit ("not being able to look upwards and having no peripheral vision, no, I see no problem engaging in a lethal duel. Oh, just don't make me tilt my head backwards otherwise my mask catches the light and I look like a forlon spaniel puppy.")

None of those things causes us a moment of cognitive dissonance because we're enjoying ourselves. We're willing to suspend our (mounting) disbelief because we LIKE what we're seeing. Apply that to the current situation concerning Kotor 2. Everyone is aware that it is flawed, every****ingthing is flawed. The question is whether those flaws outweigh your enjoyment of the game. For some people it doesn't, for some it does. Clearly, you were more frustrated than elated by the end of the game, and that's fine. No-one's trying to Stepfordize you, you're entitled to your opinion - and given the pussified world we live in you're entitled to expect your opinion to be treated with a little bit of respect.

 

Which brings us to why there is such a confrontational attitude on display between those who like the game and those who do not. It's very simple; Image that you're at the cinema watching Episode 3. You're enjoying the movie well enough but some guy sat behind you seems to feel the need to comment and critique ever frame of the film. Not only will he not stop doing it, but the fact that no-one else seems to give a **** causes him to speak louder and louder and louder. At the end of the movie the lights go up and what you see is a theater full of people sat facing the screen but for the one troll who is, by now, red-faced with exhaustion, covered with perspiration, running up and down the aisles and still ranting and raving at the top of his voice about every little flaw in the film - regardless of the fact that no-one is listening. They're leaving.

 

 

 

 

Lastly, the internet is hardly the most likely place to find balanced and fair criticism. Of anything. There's a reason that the internet hasn't quite become that influencial and valuable feedback resource that filmakers and authors and, yes, videogame developers, and other creative types were hoping for; Websites, and messageboards especially, attract precisely two kinds of people - those who want to fawn in admiration of the subject and those who want to detract from it. Anyone occupying the middle ground is in a distinct, perhaps extinct, minority. Hence all criticism found on messageboards like this one or lucasarts' is pretty much worthless and rarely representative of those who use the product as a whole.

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I wasn't trying to tell people that their opinions are wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. I just merely wanted to discuss their reasons for liking the game. As I said, I don't HATE the game, but it has many many problems, and playing the first one after completing this one, I can't even bring myself to play KotOR 2 again.

 

And as for the majority opinion on this game... Like I said, by now, most people who were disappointed like I was with the game no longer have an interest in it, and therefore would no longer be on message boards. A week after the game came out, many many people had the same opinion I did. And, if you look at the thread which is probably buried by now entitled "Filling in the Plot Holes at the End...", in this very forum, you will see that I am not in the minority about this game.

 

And I'd just like to make one more argument without going into step by step details of plot and character development. After the first KotOR, I was on the Bioware for a boards for a very long time. And I can tell you, there wasn't one single person who disliked or complained about the game, besides small things like bugs. The very fact that it was recieved so well and this game has been labeled disappointing by many, should say something about its quality.

 

It was universally recieved and loved, and there is a reason it was the Game of the Year, and KotOR 2, obviously, did not continue that tradition (I'm not sure if it can be voted GotY in 2005, but I will bet money it won't even get close).

 

I'm not trying to change anyone's minds, or tell them they're wrong, I'm just trying to state my opinions. I've come to realize that as far as sequels go, there will always be people who love them no matter what poor condition they're in. (Matrix 2-3, Master of Orion 3 *ugh*)

 

Whether you think I'm 100% wrong or not, it is a fac this game has no where near the hype of the 1st one and that should say something. I know for myself that my friends who only play PC games and are waiting till it comes out on PC, will be disappointed.

 

And for the stuff about George Lucas... I never said you had to worship the ground he walked on. The original trilogy was incredible and obviously it shows because it is still one of the most widely recognized movies almost 30 years after it was made. It was his idea, his brainchild, and those that love to insult him and shoot him down, you really are just very confused about what your likes and dislikes are.

 

You can't like Star Wars without respecting George Lucas's ideas. Period. That would be like me saying that I love modern physics and all the way it has come, but I hate Einstein and I think he was a complete moron. It is simply hypocritical.

 

All of the EU which those of you that like to insult Lucas undoubtly read, would not exist but for him. It is pure logic. So I hope you all have had enough venting of your anger now, and will relax.

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And for the stuff about George Lucas... I never said you had to worship the ground he walked on. The original trilogy was incredible and obviously it shows because it is still one of the most widely recognized movies almost 30 years after it was made. It was his idea, his brainchild, and those that love to insult him and shoot him down, you really are just very confused about what your likes and dislikes are.

umm...just to clear up some serious misconceptions you seem to harbor...George Lucas is a hack. period. Like i said, he borrowed heavily from Akira Korusawa's The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gorden serials. All he did was take a japanese movie he really liked and put it in space and then try to make it into a Flash Gorden movie (which he tried, but couldn't afford the rights to Flash Gorden). Then he relied heavily on Leigh Brackett and lawrence Kasdan to write The Empire Strikes Back and Irvin Kershner to direct it. Then, for Return of the Jedi ole' lucas once again relied on Lawrence Kasden for writing support and Richard Marquand to direct.

 

Take a look at episode 1 and 2. They are rubbish. Poorly written and equally poorly directed, all soaked in special effects. Lucas may have done a good thing once with his plagerized script for Star Wars, but thats where it ends.

 

Star Wars now lives on due to folks like Bioware, Obsidian the folks who made the Clone Wars cartoon series, and the folks at Dark Horse comics.

 

now, you ought to re-evaluate your likes and dislikes...i think you may be the one confused.

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And as for the majority opinion on this game... Like I said, by now, most people who were disappointed like I was with the game no longer have an interest in it, and therefore would no longer be on message boards. A week after the game came out, many many people had the same opinion I did. And, if you look at the thread which is probably buried by now entitled "Filling in the Plot Holes at the End...", in this very forum, you will see that I am not in the minority about this game.

 

youd be surprised. i see a bunch of people who dislike the game still hanging around the forums.

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What??? I had trouble figuring out what was going on during the story a couple times. I even felt a little jipped during it. I can think of 2 spots:

 

1) I go through all this trouble to find the lost Jedi Masters (save 1, dead on Korriban) and they are greatful for me finding them during the story. They almost always say "good to see you again", or "It's nice to have you back". To me that indicates that they want and welcome me back into the Jedi order. Then on Kashyyk I am told I am too dangerous and I can end the force as we know it. Then my powers are sucked away again, and they show no gratitude at all. Then after my powers are sucked away from me, I still have 'em. I can only asume this is because of your link to Darth Traya.

 

2) After the defeat of Darth Traya, you live, which means that the suspect of you dying if Traya did was false, there was no fatal link there. But my biggest question is: do I still have my connection to the force? Am I indeed a Jedi? I would like to think so, considering I worked my but off to prove myself to the Jedi and show that I now fully trust there judgement.

 

3) Ending: Why only one cutscene? Why give me a simple dialogue option?

 

Answer these questions for me, please!!!!!

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youd be surprised.  i see a bunch of people who dislike the game still hanging around the forums.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all. Now that I've played the game a few times, I can honestly say I like it. I've had a lot of fun playing it; however, it just doesn't compare to the first game. There are some exceptions of course -- I happen to think "Darth Treya" (i.e. Kreia) is one of the most interesting characters out of either game, and for that matter one of the most interesting Sith Lords in the entire Star Wars genre. She is like an ancient female predescessor to Darth Sidious (Emporer Palpatine). I also happen to think that the gameplay, prestige classes, and the ability to train your party members as Jedi/Sith are significant gameplay improvements. All that being said, none of this is enough to tip the balance in this new game's direction.

 

It is true that Lucas borrowed from "Flash Gordon" and "Hidden Fortress", but for anyone who has seen these for what they were, its obviously more of a tribute to both of these than intellectual theft. For that matter, Lucas took those story elements farther. (Note: He did it with well written, properly punctuated sentences comprising properly composed paragraphs as well. Period.).

 

I don't want to spend too much time on the exclusive ad hominem use of the term "hack" in respect to Lucas or his masterwork, but its obvious that the story of the "Kotor2: The Sith Lords" itself, by the very nature of taking place in the "Star Wars" universe and relying heavily on concepts such as "Jedi", "Sith", "The Force", etc., is at least as much of a "hack" of the Lucas fantasyworld we have all grown to love as Lucas' originally titled "Journal of the Whills" was to "Hidden Fortress" and/or "Flash Gordon".

 

My advice to each and every gamer who is trying both games is this: if you want the most fun out of this experience, don't turn it into a tech version of the cola wars, or for that matter, a tech version of male "appendage" envy. (w00t)

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What???  I had trouble figuring out what was going on during the story a couple times.  I even felt a little jipped during it.  I can think of 2 spots:

 

1)  I go through all this trouble to find the lost Jedi Masters (save 1, dead on Korriban) and they are greatful for me finding them during the story.  They almost always say "good to see you again", or "It's nice to have you back".  To me that indicates that they want  and welcome me back into the Jedi order.  Then on Kashyyk I am told I am too dangerous and I can end the force as we know it.  Then my powers are sucked away again, and they show no gratitude at all.  Then after my powers are sucked away from me, I still have 'em.  I can only asume this is because of your link to Darth Traya.

 

you went to kashyyk in your game? damn, i must have a faulty copy since that was never one of the planets i could travel to. :-"

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What???  I had trouble figuring out what was going on during the story a couple times.  I even felt a little jipped during it.  I can think of 2 spots:

 

1)  I go through all this trouble to find the lost Jedi Masters (save 1, dead on Korriban) and they are greatful for me finding them during the story.  They almost always say "good to see you again", or "It's nice to have you back".  To me that indicates that they want  and welcome me back into the Jedi order.  Then on Kashyyk I am told I am too dangerous and I can end the force as we know it.  Then my powers are sucked away again, and they show no gratitude at all.  Then after my powers are sucked away from me, I still have 'em.  I can only asume this is because of your link to Darth Traya.

 

2)  After the defeat of Darth Traya, you live, which means that the suspect of you dying if Traya did was false, there was no fatal link there.  But my biggest question is: do I still have my connection to the force?  Am I indeed a Jedi?  I would like to think so,  considering I worked my but off to prove myself to the Jedi and show that I now fully trust there judgement. 

 

3)  Ending:  Why only one cutscene?  Why give me a simple dialogue option?

 

Answer these questions for me, please!!!!!

 

heheh well KotOR_rules2004,

 

1) On a different string in this forum (one about Vrook being a Sith) a few of us try to answer your questions as best we can.

 

In the end tho, its just players trying to dig deeper into the storylines and the motives behind the actions, even if you agree/disagree with everything said there its not official in any way but might bring some light on the topic you ask about :rolleyes:

 

2 and 3) Only Obsidian can answer those for you and they have been tight lipped! Maybe after the PC version releases they will be willing to explain their thought process behind it all.

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youd be surprised.  i see a bunch of people who dislike the game still hanging around the forums.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all. Now that I've played the game a few times, I can honestly say I like it. I've had a lot of fun playing it; however, it just doesn't compare to the first game. There are some exceptions of course -- I happen to think "Darth Treya" (i.e. Kreia) is one of the most interesting characters out of either game, and for that matter one of the most interesting Sith Lords in the entire Star Wars genre. She is like an ancient female predescessor to Darth Sidious (Emporer Palpatine). I also happen to think that the gameplay, prestige classes, and the ability to train your party members as Jedi/Sith are significant gameplay improvements. All that being said, none of this is enough to tip the balance in this new game's direction.

 

It is true that Lucas borrowed from "Flash Gordon" and "Hidden Fortress", but for anyone who has seen these for what they were, its obviously more of a tribute to both of these than intellectual theft. For that matter, Lucas took those story elements farther. (Note: He did it with well written, properly punctuated sentences comprising properly composed paragraphs as well. Period.).

 

I don't want to spend too much time on the exclusive ad hominem use of the term "hack" in respect to Lucas or his masterwork, but its obvious that the story of the "Kotor2: The Sith Lords" itself, by the very nature of taking place in the "Star Wars" universe and relying heavily on concepts such as "Jedi", "Sith", "The Force", etc., is at least as much of a "hack" of the Lucas fantasyworld we have all grown to love as Lucas' originally titled "Journal of the Whills" was to "Hidden Fortress" and/or "Flash Gordon".

 

My advice to each and every gamer who is trying both games is this: if you want the most fun out of this experience, don't turn it into a tech version of the cola wars, or for that matter, a tech version of male "appendage" envy. (w00t)

 

I'm glad someone else on this forum isn't completely hypocritical in regards to insulting Lucas.

 

As for that person that continues to insult Lucas, he did do Star Wars in the style of those things you mentioned, and he openly says that. He also says he wanted to make a modern day myth, and he certainly succeeded in doing so. He wrote The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, having "help" from two other people is simply a result of his being able to afford a helping hand due to the success of the original.

 

If he is such a "hack" as you put it, then how did he lead to the creation of not 1, but 2, of the most loved adventure series of all time. That's right, Star Wars and Indiana Jones are two of the most hugely successful and popular trilogies ever, and both would have never happened but for him. It is simple logic.

 

And as for Episode 1 and 2, it is kind of arrogant to assume that everyone shares your views that they were terrible. Let's face it, no matter how they turned out, they couldn't have lived up to the original series, because they do not have the same cast, and because nothing can compare to a story we were captivated with as children to now when we are adults.

 

I agree, Episode 1 was definitely weaker than it should have been, but I think Episode 2 lived up to expectations, and given what the story HAD to be, it did a great job of it.

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

 

For myself I think KotOR2 is as good as the first one (not better, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, similar end result tho):

 

1) Storyline: I found the storyline to be much more advanced then the first one. It had a more mature theme to it then KotOR1 had. As a older gamer, I grow tired of the simplistic storylines so appreciate when any game designer incorperates a more mature nature to the game (no im not talking about porn and swearing, neither of those mean mature imo). There were twists, intrige, betreyals, multiple romances, politics added into part 2s storyline. I really think its the better of the two storylines but for some reason didnt run as smoothly as part 1s (that might be because of all the extras involved in part 2s story).

 

2) Characters: I felt much closer to more characters in kotor2 then I did in part 1. I found myself thinking of them as actual characters rather then npc party members for the most part (exceptions being GOTO (which I totally hated) and Hanhaar). In part one I really was only interested in my character, Bastila, and Carth. None of the other characters managed to grab me and maintain my attention for the whole game! At the end of part 2, even tho Kreia tells you their futures, I fouynd myself wanting to know more about them and what happens. I just didnt have that feeling after part 1 in terms of characters.

 

3) far as the engine and all that, I really didnt notice a difference (other then new force powers) between 1 and 2. It was the actual story that hooked me this time around. KotOR1 was a awsome game and hooked me on Star Wars (altho that Repubic demo turned me totally and completely back off, gawd I hate mindless FPS's). At the end of one I just wanted to play more! It wasnt enough, I wanted more game. At the end of two (as I said above) I not only wanted to play more again, but I wanted to know what happens to each character!!!

 

4) and to be honest I prefered starting as a jedi in part2. I always hated part 1 for those levels before you become a jedi. Just wasnt my cup of tea in that regard.

 

In the end, I think part 1 was more polished and definately ran smoother, but I think part 2 was the bigger undertaking and took KotOR series out of the kiddies land and placed it firmly in the hands of a mature design for adults. Part 1 was great fun but its story wasnt anything beyond that of a teen agers novel. Part 2 was in many ways darker and more complexe.

 

Anyways, thats my take on it :) Love both games and cant wait for part 3 :)

 

No need to write a post on your own when there's someone who nailed it already for you :)


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I just wanted to ask the people who are in love with this game and like it as much/(better??? : o) than the first one, what is it about this game that gives you the same/better experience than KotOR?

 

I'm just trying to understand if most people are that willing to either ignore or make up for in their own minds the many pointed out flaws in this game.

 

I know as for my own opinion, it is extremely disappointing, has an awful storyline, the single worst ending I've ever seen in a game, sooooo many plot holes, and is buggy as hell.

 

To me, the storyline was by far the best quality of KotOR, and the game was polished and created with an almost unheard of quality. It was a new, refreshing, and captivating story, with many interesting sidequests, extremely clever writing and dialogue and just an all around great game. I also feel that the characters in KotOR (save Juhani *shudder*) were crafted beautifully and completely realistically. Jolee acts exactly like a real elderly man, and it is just amazing how many of his mannerisms are just like that of my Grandfather lol.

 

As far as I am concerned, KotOR 2's characters are shallow, poorly developed, boring, and I even find Kriea's constant ranting extremely annoying. The story is well, as I have said before, utterly horrible in my opinion. It could have been good no doubt, if the game had a real ending, maybe with a revelation in it...

 

What I'm really just trying to understand is if people are so taken by this game because of the slightly upgraded combat/force powers/feats it has, because I really have trouble believing anyone could even compare it to the original in any othe category.

 

For myself I think KotOR2 is as good as the first one (not better, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, similar end result tho):

 

1) Storyline: I found the storyline to be much more advanced then the first one. It had a more mature theme to it then KotOR1 had. As a older gamer, I grow tired of the simplistic storylines so appreciate when any game designer incorperates a more mature nature to the game (no im not talking about porn and swearing, neither of those mean mature imo). There were twists, intrige, betreyals, multiple romances, politics added into part 2s storyline. I really think its the better of the two storylines but for some reason didnt run as smoothly as part 1s (that might be because of all the extras involved in part 2s story).

 

2) Characters: I felt much closer to more characters in kotor2 then I did in part 1. I found myself thinking of them as actual characters rather then npc party members for the most part (exceptions being GOTO (which I totally hated) and Hanhaar). In part one I really was only interested in my character, Bastila, and Carth. None of the other characters managed to grab me and maintain my attention for the whole game! At the end of part 2, even tho Kreia tells you their futures, I fouynd myself wanting to know more about them and what happens. I just didnt have that feeling after part 1 in terms of characters.

 

3) far as the engine and all that, I really didnt notice a difference (other then new force powers) between 1 and 2. It was the actual story that hooked me this time around. KotOR1 was a awsome game and hooked me on Star Wars (altho that Repubic demo turned me totally and completely back off, gawd I hate mindless FPS's). At the end of one I just wanted to play more! It wasnt enough, I wanted more game. At the end of two (as I said above) I not only wanted to play more again, but I wanted to know what happens to each character!!!

 

4) and to be honest I prefered starting as a jedi in part2. I always hated part 1 for those levels before you become a jedi. Just wasnt my cup of tea in that regard.

 

In the end, I think part 1 was more polished and definately ran smoother, but I think part 2 was the bigger undertaking and took KotOR series out of the kiddies land and placed it firmly in the hands of a mature design for adults. Part 1 was great fun but its story wasnt anything beyond that of a teen agers novel. Part 2 was in many ways darker and more complexe.

 

Anyways, thats my take on it ;) Love both games and cant wait for part 3 :o

 

No need to write a post on your own when there's someone who nailed it already for you :)

 

Your right. :D Everything above applys to my feelings towards the game. Thanks for already posting it for me. :)

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What the **** is your problem darkblade? I respect your point of view and while everyone is entiteled to thier opinion, I personaly think you've had to have taken a blaster shot to the head. Calling George Lucas a Hack and thief? While he did use some others shows/movies/stories for information, who does'nt? It's like calling that Akira or whoever person a hack. I guarentee you that that person borrowed some ideas from someone or something else, no matter the time peiod. Thats how movies and Stories are written or directed. You have to have something to look at to keep things in perspective. I think your wrong on Lucas being a Hack but that is your opinion. Now I have no idea why you are bashing episodes I and II. While they have a lot of special effects, that makes that great storylines better. They were beutifully directed and written and dont you even think about claiming that Episode II is nothing more then a horribly crafted Love story. Lucas did not make an origanal plagurized trilogy, and the new trilogy is almost as good and Lucas did not relie heaveliy on anyone to write or direct the movies. He had help with them, but name me one director or writer of our age who does not have help from someone on something, even if it is editing it. You have to take into account that there are things Lucas might mess up on, and whats wrong with looking at some other books or movies for refrence. Now if a director/writer were to use the same storyline, charecters and such from someone else, then yes its plagerism, but Lucas did not do that. The only person to delve into space as sci-fi so deeply in the 60's, 70's and maybe 80's was Gene rodenbery. So before you go bashing the new movies and calling Lucas a hack or degrading the orignal seriers (which no movie has come close to being as good or better) think on what you are about to post, write, type or whatever. As for the people who think this game has holes and flaws in it.....SO WHAT?? The game is just that good. If you are a true fan, then you can look past the flaws and see the beutifully crafted story line, the depth of the charecters. The gameplay just makes the game even better. KOTOR I is a good game, but i think that KOTOR II is better. As for you darkblade, I hope that your opinion changes. i have a felling that they wont, but that is your choice. I just don't think that dumba*** like you should express there opinions until you have the full details. Go to Lucas and tell him to his face hes a hack and I guarentee that he can prove you wrong immedietly. Just my fellings on this, hope no one else besides darkblade is insulted by this. :geek:

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that Akira or whoever person
I just don't think that dumba*** like you should express there opinions until you have the full details.

You might want to look into the names i mentioned before calling me a dumbass and stating that i shouldn't state my opinions without "full details".

 

Akira Kousawa did the following with the western remake after it.

Yojimbo - A fistful of Dollars

the Seven Samurai - The Magnificent Seven

The Hidden Fortress - Star Wars

 

At least we can agree on liking kotor and enjoying kotor 2.

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No need to write a post on your own when there's someone who nailed it already for you

 

Your right.  Everything above applys to my feelings towards the game. Thanks for already posting it for me.

 

LOL, np! Glad I could help :) (cheques are in the mail right???? hehe)

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