Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ivan the Terrible

KOTOR would have worked much better....

Recommended Posts

Baldur's Gate saw you guiding your Bhaalspawn character through two games and two expansion packs. The original game with expansion pack was designed for your character to reach about level 9 or so before waiting for the sequel. By the time I reached TOB, as a result, I felt like I was in a truly epic story. However unsatisfying Mellisan was for a lot of people, my heart was racing through the entire end-game for the simple realization that it was the end of the series which had absorbed so much of my time for so long.

 

KOTOR, by contrast, had Revan at a near-godlike Level 20 by the end of the game, which was not only cheesy from a realism perspective (nothing like having Mission Vao, a 14 year old girl, being tough enough to tear Han Solo a new ***hole) but also removed Revan forever as a potential future PC. After all, who wants to start a new game at Level 20?

 

Honestly? I think the whole series would have been immensely improved if they had planned for you to play Revan through the whole thing, and scaled level advancement to fit that idea. The Exile felt forced, and any future PC character will feel even more forced.

 

Anyone agree? Disagree?


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason (i'm not quite sure why), I get the feeling that they didn't originally plan on making a sequel, but decided to when they saw the success of KOTOR1.

 

As it turned out, bioware never did make a sequel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For some reason (i'm not quite sure why), I get the feeling that they didn't originally plan on making a sequel, but decided to when they saw the success of KOTOR1.

 

As it turned out, bioware never did make a sequel.

 

depends on who you mean by "they."

 

we got no idea what lucas intentions for kotor were, but we cannot believe that they had no notions of kotor as a possible series. publishers love a series. sequels and expansions is almost like free money for a publisher.

 

however, from what we know of bioware, they NEVER had any serious thoughts 'bout doing more than one kotor. they made real clear, on and off the boards, that they (bioware) wanted nothing to do with licensed properties following completion of hotu and kotor.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
however, from what we know of bioware, they NEVER had any serious thoughts 'bout doing more than one kotor.  they made real clear, on and off the boards, that they (bioware) wanted nothing to do with licensed properties following completion of hotu and kotor.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

That is my idea too, seeing one comment from Bob of why we reached lv20 around the end.


drakron.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Baldur's Gate saw you guiding your Bhaalspawn character through two games and two expansion packs. The original game with expansion pack was designed for your character to reach about level 9 or so before waiting for the sequel. By the time I reached TOB, as a result, I felt like I was in a truly epic story. However unsatisfying Mellisan was for a lot of people, my heart was racing through the entire end-game for the simple realization that it was the end of the series which had absorbed so much of my time for so long.

 

KOTOR, by contrast, had Revan at a near-godlike Level 20 by the end of the game, which was not only cheesy from a realism perspective (nothing like having Mission Vao, a 14 year old girl, being tough enough to tear Han Solo a new ***hole) but also removed Revan forever as a potential future PC. After all, who wants to start a new game at Level 20?

 

Honestly? I think the whole series would have been immensely improved if they had planned for you to play Revan through the whole thing, and scaled level advancement to fit that idea. The Exile felt forced, and any future PC character will feel even more forced.

 

Anyone agree? Disagree?

 

i agree wholeheartedly with this. the fact that at the end of kotor1 revan was too "powerful" to be brought back for episodes 2 and 3 (or however many they were thinking of making) was kind of the death of a possible "true trilogy". i very much would have rather had revan be the pc throughout all three games, or atleast held the possibility of revan returning for the final installment as a playable character. but because of the levelling, its near impossible.

 

i also agree with the assessment of the exile. imo, this "saga" is revans saga and the exile seems kind of thrust upon us and out of place in someone elses saga. maybe its just me being anal about comparing this series to the movies, but it would sort of be like for empire strikes back, the director bringing in his own new character and forcing the fans to try and accept that this new guy is the hero of the story, not luke skywalker, who is off on dagobah for some reason which we are never told about.

 

in any case, we cant do much about it now unless they completely re-do kotor1 to somehow make it viable to have revan as the protagonist again in kotor3 (should it be made).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't truly say if it would've been a better thing to do or not. Yet, I'm like many others kind of disappointed that KOTOR 2 isn't a continuation of Revan's Story. The excuse is probably that Revan would've been too strong to play as a new character, but according to what people say (haven't played K2 yet, waiting for the PC release), the Exile himself is powerful enough to take down legions of Sith Warriors and the most powerful Dark Lords of the Sith as it is already, so is there any real difference...?

 

I'm at the same time not entirely repelled by the idea of playing an entirely new character in KOTOR 2, but I'm hoping that KOTOR 3, should it ever come, will eventually let us continue the story as Revan, one way or another.


Despite the fact that many people who've played KOTOR has a negative view on it, I'm still very optimistic about the Februari release and can't wait to get my paws on the game :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree with you Ivan. It would have been much better had KotOR been designed that way.

 

I think Obsidian should have chosen to do this in their story of the Exile even more. While I always wanted to play Revan again since hearing KotOR 2 announced, his/her story came full circle at the end of KotOR. But considering Obsidian's choice of resolution in KotOR 2 or lack thereof, they should have done that with KotOR 2 so that the Exile would be able to complete the story properlly in KotOR 3.

 

They still can have this in KotOR 3 only it will be difficult to achieve a necessary balance considering Exile's strength at the end of KotOR 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maybe its just me being anal about comparing this series to the movies, but it would sort of be like for empire strikes back, the director bringing in his own new character and forcing the fans to try and accept that this new guy is the hero of the story, not luke skywalker, who is off on dagobah for some reason which we are never told about.

Games are a very different thing from movies.

 

 

Besides, Revan's story was completed. I can't see how Obsidian would be able to make up a new story using the same character.


"Who could blame Skynet? He's such a cute, innocent, steel-bolted robot."

-Gauntlet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maybe its just me being anal about comparing this series to the movies, but it would sort of be like for empire strikes back, the director bringing in his own new character and forcing the fans to try and accept that this new guy is the hero of the story, not luke skywalker, who is off on dagobah for some reason which we are never told about.

Games are a very different thing from movies.

 

 

Besides, Revan's story was completed. I can't see how Obsidian would be able to make up a new story using the same character.

 

I don't believe going after the True Sith, means your story is conplete. Revan becasue of KOTOR 2 has plenty of new story to tell. We Now know what Revan was trying to do, why he did this and that. The True Sith is his enemy, and he should fight them, and we should be him in the fight to finish this trilogy and story as one of the greatest Jedi of all time.


KOTOR 2 must be completed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maybe its just me being anal about comparing this series to the movies, but it would sort of be like for empire strikes back, the director bringing in his own new character and forcing the fans to try and accept that this new guy is the hero of the story, not luke skywalker, who is off on dagobah for some reason which we are never told about.

Games are a very different thing from movies.

 

 

Besides, Revan's story was completed. I can't see how Obsidian would be able to make up a new story using the same character.

 

then it shouldnt have been called kotor2. it should have simply been kotor: the sith lords. adding the "2" to the title infers its a continuation of the kotor1 story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marketing ploy really ...

 

It does show how much effort did LucasArts put on the TSL project when they market it around KotOR.

 

Now I have to disagree with the "bring up a new character", it could be done (in "Tales of the Jedi" they do that with Nomi Sunrider) but it requires to move away from the others main characters until they meet.

 

Now that makes a lot of problems, one is you can forget about any character generation since they must be defined and second you can forget about that mad leveling up, at most the first games would put the main characters around lv 8-10 so they are not "godlike" in the final game(s).

 

The issue is neither goes well with the "casual gamer" (at least the western one) since they want character generation and they want those characters to be able to be godlike.

 

I am sorry but the BG experiance is unlikely to be recreated.


drakron.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one thought the Baldur's Gate was a pretty over-rated piece anyway. I mean it was excellent, but this "be all and end all" opinion of it doesn't sit right.

 

I enjoyed KOTOR a lot more, and I am by no means a "casual gamer", and ultimately didn't have a problem with being a near god like force in the galaxy by the end game (excepting that it made the whole the too easy to complete),

 

We still as players need to be paced through our RPG's, Baldur's Gate did it in a more clever fashion then KOTOR's just offering as a bunch load of levels, but something has to drive us through play, and frankly if you are going to cut the level progression substantially, then a significant amount if re-working the design of the game is going to be needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baldur's Gate had an excellent strategy for a series (though at the time there were hordes of "TEH LEVAL CAP SUXX!!!" posts on the boards), though the first game was mediocre but for a couple chapters and the expansion. By comparison, the KotOR series is of a higher overall quality.

 

I wouldn't want to play Revan OR the Exile again. Not because their stories are over, but by the end of their games, they've discovered themselves, for good or for ill, and become important background forces in the galaxy. It's like Planescape: Torment...whatever you do with the Nameless One (also known as "Floyd"), he's already faced himself and come to terms with his past.

 

With games this full of backstory and plot, I think its best that they start a new character in every game, giving us a richer experience overall. If they were doing a series where you started off as _actually_ a newbie kid starting a great adventure, then I could see them doing the level cap & continuation thing.

 

Part of what makes the levels attained in the KotOR games is that your characters aren't exactly really 1st level characters...they've just lost most of their power, and they remember or re-learn it over their adventures, eventually attaining all of their old strength and more.


Dracomicron

Hoary Veteran

Formerly Draconis, Master of Deception

Head ST for Demon and Orpheus on Blood Chronicles online chat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I wouldn't want to play Revan OR the Exile again. Not because their stories are over, but by the end of their games, they've discovered themselves, for good or for ill, and become important background forces in the galaxy."

 

disagree on the exile bit. you not really have any sense o' finality... and you is left with more questions than is answered. is difficult w/o going into spoilers, but the exile's place in the galaxy is far less certain than revan's seemed at the end of kotor.

 

am not saying that we would wanna play the exile character again, but if you thinks that the exile has discovered himself/herself in a meaningful way then we suspect that you played a different game than did Gromnir. is the good guys right 'bout you? is the bad guys right? (oddly 'nuff, the bad guys and good guys seem to be in agreement 'bout you... which makes your future even more mysterious,) is your companions right?

 

*shrug*

 

kotor2 is occasionally clumsy the way it handles story


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
disagree on the exile bit.  you not really have any sense o' finality... and you is left with more questions than is answered.  is difficult w/o going into spoilers, but the exile's place in the galaxy is far less certain than revan's seemed at the end of kotor. 

 

Yeah, that's how I felt as well. That said, have to disagree with both of you in that I would like to play as the Exile again; I found him to be a much more compelling character than Revan. Revan, after all, is great at everything, and never has to work hard to achieve anything. The Exile, however,

was a mediocre Jedi who was weak in the Force according to Vrook, before the War

, and yet becomes something greater than perhaps even Revan (if the others are wrong about him). Further, the emphasis placed on the Exile and the way that the story of KotOR2 was told made me both identify with and care for the Exile more than I ever did for Revan. Plus, it would be nice to get the answers to some questions.

 

Biig Spoiler Below! DO NOT Highlight Unless You Want To Be Spoiled!

 

 

Easy way to make the Exile the protagonist of the next one (if there is one) is by making the Council right about you, and having the wound be healed. As the Council argued that the reason the Exile was so powerful was that he was draining the Force from everyone around him, having him "healed" by confronting his past and laying it to rest would weaken him, effectively making him a 1st level Jedi with War Veteran as a feat again.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I would not want to play as Revan or "the Exile" again;althrough, I would like to expand on both "the exile" and Revan's story. Maybe start KOTORIII with the main storyline being about Revan vs. the true Sith. you start as a mysterious ALIEN, force sensitive follower of Revan. That way Revan is trying to defeat the true Sith is by creating a rebellion inside the Sith Empire. He could train force sensitive rebels to become Jedi/sith. That would also explain how the Jedi Order is eventually reestablished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...