What is "Keen" ?

[paultwang]

Some crystals have "Keen". What does it mean?

[G@mbIT]

Some crystals have "Keen". What does it mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Keen means they lower the value for which you deal a critical strike.

 

Example: default longword would be on a dice roll of 19-20

a 'keen' longsword would deal a critical on 18-20.

 

Multiple 'keens' stack AFAIK, so you may have an 15-20 keen scimitar :cool:

 

P.S.: And now exchange 'longsword/scimitar' with 'lightsaber' and then: welcome to StarWars D20 "

[jaguars4ever]

Doubles the critical threat range to be precise.

[EnderAndrew]

Yeah, but it uses the weird D20 stacking rules.

 

Two x2 multiplayers = a x3 multiplayer.

[Mongoose]

A critical hit threat range is the range where the attack roll threatens for critical hit damage. Attacks rolls are from 1-20, so a threat range of 19-20 means that if the attack roll is either a 19 or a 20, you make a second "threat" roll, and if that roll hits the target, you do critical hit damage. (If you miss the threat roll, you just do normal damage.) Most of the time a critical hit is double damage (the weapon will have xN after the range, where N is the damage multiplier), but some weapons or modifications allow you to do more.

 

Keen adds a 2x multiplier on the critical hit threat range of a weapon. If you have a 20-20 threat range (i.e. a threat range of 1), with Keen the threat range is now 19-20, or a range of 2. If the original threat range was 19-20 (range 2), with Keen it would be 17-20 (range 4).

 

When stacking with things such as the Critical Strike or Sniper Shot feats that also add critical hit multipliers, Keen adds 1 to the other multiplier. So, if you have a base threat range of 19-20 (range 2) on a melee weapon and you use Master Critical Strike for a 4x multiplier, the threat range for the attack would be 13-20 (range . If the weapon was also Keen, you'd add 1 to the multiplier, so it'd be 5x for a threat range of 11-20 (range 10).

 

As a side note, the weapon you're wielding makes a huge difference when using Critical Strike/Sniper Shot. If it's not Keen and/or doesn't have a base threat range of at least 19-20, it's not going to hit for a critical all that often.

[Ostkant]

I don't get it. Read all these confusing posts and I don't understand if Keen means that it increases the number of critical hits I make, or if it decreases them.

 

The game mechanics sometimes appear as a bunch of Einstein talk to me.

[EnderAndrew]

Keen increases criticals.

 

Keen is best used in conjunction with feats like Sniper Shot, and weapons that have a 19-20 crit range to begin with.

[ampulator00]

And this is why some people don't like Critical Strike; personally, I love it, but there are certain situations where Flurry and Power Attack is much better.

[EnderAndrew]

I used flurry almost exclusively in KOTOR. The combat was so easy that I just held down buttons.

[drcloak]

And this is why some people don't like Critical Strike; personally, I love it, but there are certain situations where Flurry and Power Attack is much better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've been toying around with Master Critical Strike, using crystals which enhance this Feat. I'm hitting upwards of 130 damage with one attack, with a 15th level Guardian lol Crit Strike is definitely nice. Its how I one-hit killed the Nar Shadda Master.

 

Edit: When I say with one attack, I mean a single attack. I'm using a Double Bladed Saber with Master Two-Handed Weapon Feat. So when I use a Crit Strike Feat, it ends up being two attacks. Often, the first of these two attacks breaks the 130 damage barrier.

 

- dr cloak

[ampulator00]

And this is why some people don't like Critical Strike; personally, I love it, but there are certain situations where Flurry and Power Attack is much better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've been toying around with Master Critical Strike, using crystals which enhance this Feat. I'm hitting upwards of 130 damage with one attack, with a 15th level Guardian lol Crit Strike is definitely nice. Its how I one-hit killed the Nar Shadda Master.

 

Edit: When I say with one attack, I mean a single attack. I'm using a Double Bladed Saber with Master Two-Handed Weapon Feat. So when I use a Crit Strike Feat, it ends up being two attacks. Often, the first of these two attacks breaks the 130 damage barrier.

 

- dr cloak

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, that's why I love it. But like I said, there are certain situations where it is overkill, and it simply better to use Flurry or Power attack. Then again, since there isn't a level cap in this game, I pretty sure it is quite possible to master all there without any severe loss in feats.

[drcloak]

Not to mention Crit Strike can also stun. Once I'm at the end of the game with this guy, I think I might be setting some records on most damage in a single round of attack lol

 

- dr cloak

[ampulator00]

BTW, does anyone know what the difference is between keen, mssive critcals, and critical threat range?

[EnderAndrew]

Master criticals adds more damage to a successful critical hit. Keen improves the critical threat range.

 

This is how it works.

 

Let's say your weapon has a critical threat range of 19-20. When the base attack roll to hit is a 19 or 20, you get a bonus roll to see if you score a critical attack.

 

Keen will double your critical threat range. Effectively it doubles the percentage chance you will have critical hits.

[ampulator00]

Master criticals adds more damage to a successful critical hit.  Keen improves the critical threat range.

 

This is how it works.

 

Let's say your weapon has a critical threat range of 19-20.  When the base attack roll to hit is a 19 or 20, you get a bonus roll to see if you score a critical attack.

 

Keen will double your critical threat range.  Effectively it doubles the percentage chance you will have critical hits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, a Critical Threat Range x2 increase that is not named Keen, is actually really Keen?

 

That means a lightsaber that holds a Nextor and/or Velmorite and/or Ankarres Sapphire crystal should have a critical threat range. Doses anyone if you have a weapon with 2 keen upgrades, do they stack?

 

That reminds me; while I really, really love Master Critical Strike, my friends tend to hate it,, because it doesn't always work, when compared to Master Flurry or Master Power Attack.

[Shadowstrider]

BTW, does anyone know what  the difference is between  keen, mssive critcals, and critical threat range?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Critical threat is the number needed on a 20-sided die to score a critical threat.. When you roll a succesful critical threat, you then roll a second 20-sided die. So if the critical threat of your lightsaber is 19-20 you must roll a 19 or 20 for a threat roll.

 

In order for a critical threat to be a critical hit your threat roll must outright beat the defense(AC) of your foe.

 

Example:

Your Attack Bonus: 15

Your critical threat chance: 19-20

Enemy AC: 30

 

On your attack you roll a 19(roll)+15(attack bonus) which equals 34. This is automatically hits your foe. You must then roll your threat roll.

 

Your threat roll plus your attack bonus must be greater than or equal to the enemy AC. So your threat roll could be as low as 15 and be a succesful critical hit(if the roll was 15 and your attack bonus is 15, your total is 30).

 

Keen doubles the ORIGINAL critical threat of the weapon. So if your weapon had a threat range of 20 it would be 19-20. If it was 19-20 it becomes 17-20.

 

Massive criticals increases the damage dealt on a critical hit. Normally a critical hit is your damage roll twice (meaning if your damage is 1d6 you roll 2d6). If you have massive criticals +1 you would roll your damage twice and add 1 point to the total. So if you normally roll 1d6, you would roll 2d6 and add 1.

[ampulator00]

Thank you...

 

how about weapon threat range, criticla multiplier, and critical hit attack modifier?

[EnderAndrew]

Keen upgrades stack. But I assume that this uses the normal D20 rules. Two x2 modifers become a x3 modifier instead of a x4.

[Shadowstrider]

Thank you...

 

how about weapon threat range, criticla multiplier, and critical hit attack modifier?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Weapon threat range is the same as critical threat range. If it is 19-20 that is the threat range.

 

Critical multiplier is how many dice are rolled when you score a critical hit. In the above I said you would roll 2d6 if your normal damage is 1d6. In actuallity it depends on your critical multiplier.

 

So if your multiplier is x3 you recieve 3d6.

 

Critical hit attack modifier I don't know that one.

[Shadowstrider]

Keen upgrades stack.  But I assume that this uses the normal D20 rules.  Two x2 modifers become a x3 modifier instead of a x4.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't follow.

 

If you have a rapier (18-20) that is keen (15-20) and improved critical the threat is 12-20.

 

Do you mean critical damage multipliers stack like that? Sure, but that has nothing to do with keen.

[Mongoose]

Okay, here's a simplified explanation:

 

Say you have a weapon that has 19-20, x2 listed in the description. The 19-20 is your threat range, and the x2 is your critical hit multiplier.

 

The game creates a random number from 1-20 when you attack. The threat range represents the chance that you might score a critical hit, which does double (and sometimes more) your normal damage.

 

The size of the threat range is your chances out of 20, so a 19-20 threat range means you have a 2/20 = 10% chance of a crit, because you will possibly get one on either a 19 or a 20. (Your chances are actually less than that, but that's a good estimate.) The bigger the range, the bigger your chances at a critical.

 

When you use a Keen weapon, or use Critical Strike or Sniper Shot, you're increasing the chance that you score a critical. All of these multiply the base threat range by a number, so a weapon that has a bigger threat range works much better than one with a small threat range. A weapon with a 19-20 threat range works much better with Critical Strike/Sniper Shot than one with a 20-20 threat range, and a weapon with a 17-20 range would work better still.

 

When you score a critical, your normal weapon damage is multiplied by the critical hit multiplier. In the example above, it's x2, so you'd do double damage on a critical hit. If the weapon had x3 as its critical hit multiplier, it'd do triple damage.

 

If the weapon has massive critical damage, that damage gets added to your total damage on a critical hit (but not on a normal attack).

[Mongoose]

Keen upgrades stack.  But I assume that this uses the normal D20 rules.  Two x2 modifers become a x3 modifier instead of a x4.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't follow.

 

If you have a rapier (18-20) that is keen (15-20) and improved critical the threat is 12-20.

 

Do you mean critical damage multipliers stack like that? Sure, but that has nothing to do with keen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe he's talking about threat range multipliers, which is how Keen works. In your example, Keen is a x2 multiplier, and Improved Critical from NWN is also a x2 multiplier, so it comes out to a x3 multiplier using D20 rules (add together, then subtract 1). The rapier has a base threat range size of 3, and after using both Keen and Improved Critical the range size is 3 * 3 = 9, or 12-20.

[tanstaafl28]

Very very sharp. Be careful.

 

Some crystals have "Keen". What does it mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dufflover]

I think the easiest thing to do is simply look at the threat range on the weapon description after add the keen upgrade to it. I'm pretty sure get the whole idea of what criticals are stuff now cos of all the replies so far, but in the end, the best way is to play around with the configs and see which gives the widest critical threat range.

btw, a good example of using a weaker keen weapon is with HK-47. If he scores a critical hit he does a lot of extra damage from his assassination feat or something like that. He also had a huge attack bonus from dex and that organic targetting component, although just remember attack bonus has nothing to do with scoring a critical (besides from hitting the target in the first place) - I think.

 

My attempt at sorting out the Critical feats and Keen:

I think this is what my HK-47 had:

Disrupter Rifle

Un-upgraded base = 18-20 (3/20 chance)

then scope for keen = 15-20 (6/20 chance, or 2x3/20)

Master Sniper shot = 6-20 (15/20 chance (w00t) )

 

6-20 is 5 times more than the original 18-20 base. 15-20 was in the weapon stats window and the 6-20 came from the dialog feedback.

15 chances breakdown:

base > 3 chances

feat > 4 x original base = 12 (this "REPLACES" the base)

scope > +3 (well, +original base)

 

Depending on what you find easier to understand or work out, it's:

4x (feat) + [2x - 1] (keen) = 5x

when you use the D20 multiplier thingy in above posts.

 

Similar would apply for Critical Strike.

 

Sorta makes sense when you consider that if the feat multiplied the upgraded stat, I would have 24/20 (wha?) chances to get critical, or in other words, critical every attack except on a 1 (automatic miss).

 

if anyone's gonna quote this, trim it first...

[Darth Brooks]

Can someone explain the crit multiplier to me? It should be straight forward but then I look at the damage breakdown and it doesn't makes sense.

 

For instance it will say something like "Damage x3 = Energy 43 etc."

 

So my original damage was 14.33 points?