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mithrandir

my rant against kotr2 *spoilers*

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horrible, simply horrible. the story is profoundly uninteresting and terribly convoluted. none of the mysteries raised during the game are resolved in the horrible abrupt ending.

 

i was darkside but not terribly so ( for example i could not enter the tomb on korriban as my brother who also played did) and at the end i hurled kreia "the old woman" in the pit and the ebon hawk is crushed. boom credits roll. no wrap up, no me ruling the universe as a darth traya, in fact the game never offered the choice of ruling the galaxy so what is the point of fighting kreia? do we really need 3 baddies? their relationship with kreia and why the continue to obey her her is never explained and they were all uninspired and uncharasmatic.

 

whats with all the "echoes"? thats all they say druing the entire game. what about this bond kreia and i share? she threatened to kill herself therby killing me unless i went to malachor v, i destroy her but i dont die.

 

awful.

 

framerates terrible, in battle with numerous opponents its all jerky and skips and glitches. whats with unequip weapons in a fierce battle? how stupid! that wasnt in the kotr1 and neither was the medpac pop-up. yes! yes! i want to use this medpac on this character, meanwhile red slayers are draining me of life force.

 

one of the absolute worst things and one that never ever happended in the first kotr is when setting up actions during critical moments in battle, for some bizarre reason the game doesnt execute and just uses default attacks. many party members are killed when clearly i have medpacs lined up. this flaw is inexcusable.

 

basically this game left the company barely debugged and with a committee writing the script. this is just another crappy movie tie-in as far as im concerned. put out this to capitalize on the success of the first and just sit back and count the money.

 

also there werent as many women and minority "xtras". yes i know kreia, visas, but take a good look at the first game. women and minority sith troopers, republic soldiers and civilians on the different planets. here the only female npc jedi is killed on korriban and all the surviving jedi are males and whites.

 

kotr broke new ground in every aspect of its programming, story and character development and expanded the stars wars myth brilliantly. kotr2 is simply a boring retread programmed by folks who clealy did not care for star wars.

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Hmmmm....to me it seemed like the ratios of minorities and females in this game were pretty well done....but for the other arguments I think youll find little opposition here....there is no doubt the game needed a lot more polishing

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*Chuckles* Not enough minorities?

Yes, we certainly lacked our share of Twi'leks, Duros, Mandalorians, and every other species in KotOR2.

 

I can think of several black NPCs which are featured in KotOR2.

Captain Rihlsk on Onderon.

The militiamen who wants moisture vaporators on Dantooine.

The doctor on Peragus.

The captain of the Harbinger(at least I think, been awhile since I watched the holovid).

 

Those are all off the top of my head.

 

Women?

Kreia.

Handmaiden.

Visas.

Atris.

Handmaiden's sisters.

Queen Talia.

Doctor on Peragus - OMG a woman AND black?!?!?

 

We don't know what race or species Nihilus is.

 

As for the rest of your grievances. . .

horrible, simply horrible. the story is profoundly uninteresting and terribly convoluted. none of the mysteries raised during the game are resolved in the horrible abrupt ending.

 

Profoundly uninteresting? If so, why do you seem to care that the mysteries weren't solved at the end? Aren't you happy that they abandoned the "profoundly uninteresting and convuluted" storyline in favor of a butcher shop?

 

At anyrate, I can't think of any of the mysteries that went unanswered, except maybe, what happens to the force bond.

 

i was darkside but not terribly so ( for example i could not enter the tomb on korriban as my brother who also played did) and at the end i hurled kreia "the old woman" in the pit and the ebon hawk is crushed. boom credits roll. no wrap up, no me ruling the universe as a darth traya, in fact the game never offered the choice of ruling the galaxy so what is the point of fighting kreia?

 

Point of fighting Traya? If you're darkside it could be to takeover the universe, revenge, to learn the secrets of the academy.

 

do we really need 3 baddies? their relationship with kreia and why the continue to obey her her is never explained and they were all uninspired and uncharasmatic.

*Spoilers*

 

Nihilus doesn't obey her. It only obeys its hunger.

 

Sion, on the other hand looks up to her as a mother, and doesn't understand why she continues to choose the exile over him. It is like when a spoiled child isn't loved enough by their parents.

 

*/Spoilers*

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The imaginary space aliens count as minorities since about the same time you began playing in an imaginary space universe with imaginary human beings.

 

How do I know they're not the majority? You mean besides the fact that it is star wars canon that humans are the dominant species? I suppose I don't.

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my personal opinion is that george lucas unlike the first kotr was much more creatively involved in this project and so its nonsensical plot.

 

this all happens only 5 yrs after the mandalorian wars? you are an ex-fighter for the republic and you are all chummy with the mandalorians? i would think being on dxun moon would bring back terrible memories for the pc and the mandolorians would be incredibly hostile to you.

 

goto has a bounty on you yet he wants you to save the republic? he holds the remote on malachor v hostage but that stand-off is never resolved.

 

what about hk-47 and t3, never resolved.

 

what is malachor v? thats never explained why its so important or such a power center.

 

how exactly are these sith different? no xtra special powers. same old vibroblades. why are they such a threat again?

 

the programmers do not understand what it means to be sith or jedi or the star wars culture this was just another programming assignment to them the business dept. was in charge of this game.

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Wow. Did you actually play the game?

 

this all happens only 5 yrs after the mandalorian wars?  you are an ex-fighter for the republic and you are all chummy with the  mandalorians? i would think being on dxun moon would bring back terrible memories for the pc and the mandolorians would be incredibly hostile to you.

 

One thing I didn't pay attention to was the numerical timeline of the events. I believe the game took place sometime around 5 years after, but I tend to not pay attention to numeric dates, because if you do they often contradict one another.

 

You aren't "chummy" with mandalorians.

 

Mandalorians do not care that you beat them in the way you think. To them defeat is a part of battle. It teaches them their flaws and ways for them to improve themselves. The Mandalorians underestimated the jedi and learned that. They claim they won't make that mistake again.

 

They revere battle prowess over everything else. Mandalore has seen jedi prowess first hand, and he knows they have great strength in battle. That is why they respect you enough not to slaughter you. You have oppurtunities to gain respect in the Mandalorian camp and learn of their culture better.

 

goto has a bounty on you yet he wants you to save the republic?

 

The bounty is specifically for LIVING jedi. He wants you brought in so that he can force you to strengthen the republic.

 

he holds the remote on malachor v hostage but that stand-off is never resolved.

 

It is purposefully left open, I believe. A darksider wouldn't want to blow up Malachor V, necessarily. A darksider might want the power there.

 

A lightsider would blow it up, more than likely. This is reflected in the side's endings.

 

what is malachor v?  thats never explained why its so important or such a power center.

 

I must ask, again. Did you even play this game?

 

Malachor V was the staging point of the final battle of the Mandalorian Wars. It was a "forbidden world" for the madalorian people. I don't want to go too far in-depth as to its story and importance. I assure you that it IS explained.

 

how exactly are these sith different?  no xtra special powers. same old vibroblades.  why are they such a threat again?

 

You're wrong, they DO have special power. However that is not why they are different. This isn't the spoiler forum, nor the story forum, so I won't spoil it for everyone.

 

the programmers do not understand what it means to be sith or jedi or the star wars culture this was just another programming assignment to them  the business dept.  was in charge of this game.

 

*Rolleyes*

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also there werent as many women and minority "xtras".  yes i know kreia, visas, but take a good look at the first game.  women and minority sith troopers, republic soldiers and civilians on the different planets.  here the only female npc jedi is killed on korriban and all the surviving jedi are males and whites.

:):p

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"This isn't the spoiler forum, nor the story forum, so I won't spoil it for everyone"

 

This is the spoiler forum!! Spoil away!

 

- dr cloak

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also there werent as many women and minority "xtras". yes i know kreia, visas, but take a good look at the first game. women and minority sith troopers, republic soldiers and civilians on the different planets. here the only female npc jedi is killed on korriban and all the surviving jedi are males and whites.

 

Oh please spare me. Can we not have ONE MB on the internet where political correctness is a non-issue? Please. Who cares about the minority issue? It is a video game.

 

BTW, white folks are a minority world-wide. 10% of the world's population. WE are the minority, friend.

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Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I, for one, liked it overall.

 

Maybe I was lucky, but I never got a glitch/bug when I ran through. I actually had more problems running KotOR 1.

 

I liked the urgency that seemed to be driving me, the idea that I was being hunted constantly by both friend and foe.

 

My only dislikes were that the ending for me was a bit abrupt (LS Male), and some things seemed to come out of left field (most likely because I wasn't fully up on all my NPC's backgrounds)..

 

I would say that I wish there had been NPC specific sidequests and many more influence opportunities for the NPCs. It seems like unless you knew exactly who to take with you in your party beforehand, getting enough influence with some characters wasn't possible.

 

Anyway, overall a good experience. Excuse me now while I put on my asbestos suit and wait for the flames.

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yeah the version i played was bug and glitch laden, esp. when using force wave you will lock up the game.

 

the glitches might have been forgiven if the story was any good. what are the developers saying about this terrible product theyve palmed off on us?

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yeah the version i played was bug and glitch laden, esp.  when using force wave you will lock up the game. 

 

the glitches might have been forgiven if the story was any good.  what are the developers saying about this terrible product theyve palmed off on us?

 

It is evident to me that we played an entirely different game. In *my* version force wave was still the single most effective force power against hordes of foes. In *my* version the story holes which you point out above aren't holes, and I understood everything. In *my* version the product wasn't terrible, nor was the story bad.

 

I suggest you go buy KotORII, or if you own it, try playing it again and not skiping through the dialogs.

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"This isn't the spoiler forum, nor the story forum, so I won't spoil it for everyone"

 

This is the spoiler forum!! Spoil away!

 

- dr cloak

 

It is because I requested the thread be moved :p

 

Now then I assume you want spoilers about the Sith and their extra powers and why they were a threat?

 

*Spoiler*

 

Darth Sion's power was that he was essentially unvulnerable. You could repeatedly slice and dice him and he would just keep on fighting. Nihilus' power was the power to feed on the force and force wielders. Traya's power, as I understand it, was nothing out of the ordinary for a jedi, but her extreme proficiency at it made it special. She seemed to have the power to hide her mind and intentions from everyone.

 

Now, as to why they were so dangerous and different from other sith. It is simple. Up until that point in the Star Wars universe the Sith had not struck from the shadows and secrecy. Until that point they were generally like Malak or Revan, overt in their crusades against the Jedi. The fact they had such powers and still the jedi had no knowledge to fight them is what made them so deadly.

 

 

*/Spoiler*

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I just finished it, and I thought it was simply brilliant.

 

After you get done with Peragus and Telos at the beginning, the story gets moving and gets very interesting.

 

I thought the plot twist of the game was pretty good, not near the caliber of KOTOR1, but pretty good still.

 

The whole story? Very good, I think the story is as good as KOTOR1.

 

Characters? The characters are very well done, but there isn't as good of character development and interesting characters like there were in KOTOR1.

 

The game as a whole, I think it's bigger than KOTOR1, and there is a lot more that was put into this one, especially how you can customize all of the weapons and armor, and create items you are in need of. I also like how you can influence your characters and align them to whatever you are.

 

BTW, I've heard that you can turn Atton into a Jedi... Is this true?

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Imho it is quite evident that this game is missing quite some content originaly planned. Too many loose/rushed ends. Basicly everything is explained, but I was not satisfied.

 

What are Nihilus exact origins (Malakor I know...), did he share his fate with the exile but turned? This is implied but never really revealed.

 

Where does the undead Sith Lord come from? He once was Kreias apprentice, like Revan.... What is Kreias whole story?

 

Who send the assasin droids?

 

What is Go-To

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I agree with mithrandir.

 

This game is fun to play and you have a blast going through it. But it is NOT replayable at all. I had a BEAST Jedi Gaurdian/Weapons Master and strolled through the game like it was child's play. Playing through again as a Counculer/Sith Lord is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO boring and I think I'm making DS choices and I get all these LS points it's driving me MAD!

 

Other bad things included the tedious prcess of turning the characters into Jedi, echos, Kreia is the most annoying character EVER invented, echos, they never tie up the HK-47/T3-M4/how you got the Ebon Hawk thing, echos, and could they use the word, "echo" more? echo.

 

Darth Nihilus is the creepiest looking "Darth" I have ever seen and I thought he would play a HUGE role in this epic saga. They speek of him as the deepest evil and about how he destroyed an entire planet by draining the force out of it. But then it's like they forgot he was a character and then 1 week before the game is to be shipped they added what was going to happen with him. VERY disappointing!!! Darth Sion and his Deadly Viper Assasination Squad :ph34r: ... <_< lame.

 

Along with the outdated gfx and POOR framerate, this game is mediocre at best. The only good addition they added is the fact you can role deep with your posse of Jedi. That's hot. :wub:

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and whats up with only being able to gain influence by being light side? I know you can do it DS, but almost every influence gaining response is LS, and if you do do DS then you LOSE influence? I think it should remain neutral.... Very weak on Obsidian's behalf.

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I agree with mithrandir.

 

This game is fun to play and you have a blast going through it. But it is NOT replayable at all. I had a BEAST Jedi Gaurdian/Weapons Master and strolled through the game like it was child's play. Playing through again as a Counculer/Sith Lord is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO boring and I think I'm making DS choices and I get all these LS points it's driving me MAD!

 

Other bad things included the tedious prcess of turning the characters into Jedi, echos, Kreia is the most annoying character EVER invented, echos, they never tie up the HK-47/T3-M4/how you got the Ebon Hawk thing, echos, and could they use the word, "echo" more? echo.

 

Darth Nihilus is the creepiest looking "Darth" I have ever seen and I thought he would play a HUGE role in this epic saga. They speek of him as the deepest evil and about how he destroyed an entire planet by draining the force out of it. But then it's like they forgot he was a character and then 1 week before the game is to be shipped they added what was going to happen with him. VERY disappointing!!! Darth Sion and his Deadly Viper Assasination Squad :ph34r: ...  <_< lame.

 

Along with the outdated gfx and POOR framerate, this game is mediocre at best. The only good addition they added is the fact you can role deep with your posse of Jedi. That's hot.  :thumbsup:

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and whats up with only being able to gain influence by being light side? I know you can do it DS, but almost every influence gaining response is LS, and if you do do DS then you LOSE influence? I think it should remain neutral.... Very weak on Obsidian's behalf.

 

 

Yes!

 

That whole echo thing. God.... shut up already. Also, the dialogue was way too "Matrixy".

 

Me: What happened here?

 

Kreia: You already know what happened here

 

Me: Where do we go now?

 

Kreia: That path has already been set before you

 

Me: *ignites lightsaber* :angry:

 

I played my first time through as a lightside male guardian/weapon master. I couldn't wait to play again as a sith just so I could tell Kreia off and gut her with my lightsaber.

 

Also, Darth Nihilus. When I first saw this guy I thought to my self "This is one bad mother". Has a creepy mask. Speaks in some bizarre alien dialect. Dude can whipe out massive amounts of jedi and obliterate entire planets from just using the force. Yet, he falls after one swing from my lightsaber. What the EFF?

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The sad thing is that the more play throughs I do, the less I like it each time. You just sdon't have the pay-off that KOTOR did because in the original you had to fight tooth and nail through the starforge and then face a tough guy in Malak.

 

In this one you cut down everyone, including Sion and Nihilis with ease and then you kick the hell out of Krea who can only offer flying lightsabers that never touch you if you do it right.

 

Where is the pay-off?

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If anyone payed attention to the dialogue you would realize that the reason Darth Nihilus was weak was because of Kreia. She has Colonel Tobin think that there are Jedi on Telos so that he can report back to Nihilus but this was a lie. She did this so that Nihilus would be weak. Your character even tells him this.

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If anyone payed attention to the dialogue you would realize that the reason Darth Nihilus was weak was because of Kreia. She has Colonel Tobin think that there are Jedi on Telos so that he can report back to Nihilus but this was a lie. She did this so that Nihilus would be weak. Your character even tells him this.

 

 

Also you can say something to the effect of "If you want someone to feed off of feed off of me" It shows a little cutscene of Nihilus using drain life on you then he sort of falls to his knees. I think it shows you a message saying you reduced his will saves but I might be thinking of Sion. It doesn't make much sense at the time until you realize that you are in effect a sort of "blight" on the Force.

 

However it still doesn't excuse the fact you can cut him down so quick. I was really looking forward to the fight, but Master Speed and Master Flurry took care of him quick. I was expecting he would at least use Force Breach like Malik does in KOTOR 1 but not the case, I certainly didn't have to scrafice Visas that would have been a waste of a good character.

 

Has anyone finished yet with the hardest difficulty setting? I haven't tried it yet but maybe those Sith Lords will be a little more Sith Lordsy on a harder difficultly.

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also there werent as many women and minority "xtras".  yes i know kreia, visas, but take a good look at the first game.  women and minority sith troopers, republic soldiers and civilians on the different planets.  here the only female npc jedi is killed on korriban and all the surviving jedi are males and whites.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read on a video game forum in some time. It's obvious you haven't played the game you're harping on because, if you did, you'd notice the high number of women in the game- Kreia, Visas, Handmaiden, the queen in Iziz, the white-haired Jedi on Telos (Artis? I forgot her name), her fierce female warriors, the one bounty hunter who joins the party who I hated playing as (is it because I'm a sexist?!?!?), the head of the government on Datooine, etc. Yep, women sure were given the shaft.

 

And regarding whitey, you must have played the very secret KKKOTOR version that made all the aliens white dudes because in the copy I play, there are more than white people in it.

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If anyone payed attention to the dialogue you would realize that the reason Darth Nihilus was weak was because of Kreia. She has Colonel Tobin think that there are Jedi on Telos so that he can report back to Nihilus but this was a lie. She did this so that Nihilus would be weak. Your character even tells him this.

That would require patience and some gamers don't have the patience to slog through dialog.

 

I, personally, loved the story. I thought the dialogs tied things up more than people give the story credit for.

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I get the feeling that you ran through the game and didn't pay attention to any diolage. Did you just fight through everything and didn't talk to party members or read any dialoge given to you. Considering that all of the things you said aren't explained were in fact explained...


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Yeah..seriously. Make your mian character a black guy and than the entire story is about a minority. If that makes you feel better. I see no racism in this game whatsoever...and especially no sexism. You have more women than men in your group if you play a guy. Not to mention the queen of Onderon, the head of Czerka on Telos is a woman and the administrator of Dantooine is a woman.

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I just finished it, and I thought it was simply brilliant.

 

After you get done with Peragus and Telos at the beginning, the story gets moving and gets very interesting.

 

I thought the plot twist of the game was pretty good, not near the caliber of KOTOR1, but pretty good still.

 

The whole story? Very good, I think the story is as good as KOTOR1.

 

Characters? The characters are very well done, but there isn't as good of character development and interesting characters like there were in KOTOR1.

 

The game as a whole, I think it's bigger than KOTOR1, and there is a lot more that was put into this one, especially how you can customize all of the weapons and armor, and create items you are in need of. I also like how you can influence your characters and align them to whatever you are.

 

BTW, I've heard that you can turn Atton into a Jedi... Is this true?

 

 

You can turn almost all of your non droid PC's into Jedi if you are a Jedi Master, so far, I have made Bao Dur, the Handmaiden, Atton, and (if you don't have Handmaiden), the Disciple.

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