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Neverwinter Nights 2 or Dragon Age?


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#61
ShadowPaladin V1.0

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KOTOR's 'mana system'  is at the lower end of the scale.

See? That's what happens when you let 'em apply your almighty 'Rule 0' way too much. :p

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It suited the games cinematic approach.

#62
Magnum Opus

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"Couple that with Bioware's "one Ding per hour of gameplay" design philosophy"

I've never played a BIO game where it was a ding per level. Maybe 1 per 11/2 hours at worse. And, I've yet to see another devloper really do much better. Certainly not Obsidian/BIS; that's for sure.

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I'll assume that your first statement there was meant to be "one ding per hour", instead of "one ding per level", but let me draw your attention to just a little bit more of my original statement: "Couple that with Bioware's "one Ding per hour of gameplay" design philosophy (or whatever the exact ratio turns out to be)...".

That last little bit there, helpfully italicized for your convenience, implies a couple of things: 1. That I'm not, in fact, certain that the exact ratio of Dinging per hours of gameplay in your typical, recent Bioware game is 1:1, and so quibbling over the exact number wasn't the intent of that statement in the first place, and 2. That it doesn't really matter what the specific ratio is, because whatever it turns out to be, it's too fast for my taste.

Furthermore, I wasn't talking about what other game developers are doing in their games, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I was talking about Bioware because 1) They're the ones who are developing DA, 2) They're the ones whose Ding to Hours of Gameplay Ratio has changed (and from certain comments on the Bioboards, it seems to be a conscious, deliberate shift), and 3) They were the ones who gave me Baldur's Gate, another one of my favourite games that actually did get the Ding : Hours of Gameplay ratio right for me.

"I'm just afraid that when we're talking about Bioware, anyway, "epic story" "

If you hate epic stories that much; perhaps you shouldn't play BIo games. Afetrall, BIO isn't going to stop making them. That's their preferred type of story and they ain't about to change it for you.

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I don't believe I asked them to change their preferred type of story. I don't even believe I mentioned that I hated Epic Stories. What I actually said was that I'd prefer it if they slowed down the rate of character advancement. As has been mentioned, Epic Story doesn't necessarily imply Epic Levels, but I said that it was my fear that for Bioware, at least, that had become the case, and that it was my hope that DA would change this somewhat, since they keep mentioning that DA is going to be something of a throwback to their Baldur's Gate 2 days, a game whose Ding : Hours of Gameplay ratio was somewhat more to my liking... not as much as BG1, but still better than NWN. Whether they do slow down the Dinging is entirely up to them.

That aside, though, I haven't played a new Bioware game since I bought NWN. I don't plan on playing another one until possibly Dragon Age. They'll continue to put out the types of games that they want to make, and I'll continue to buy the types of games that I want to play. If the two happen to coincide, great, I know I'll get a technically superior (relatively speaking, anyway) PC cRPG at the very least. If they don't, I'm sure they're perfectly fine with the notion of not making my specific type of ideal game, just as I'm fine with the notion of spending my entertainment dollars on another company's game, or, failing that, on another medium of entertainment entirely. No loss for either of us.

*shrugs* That's just the way it goes.

#63
Volourn

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:p

#64
Althernai

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I think you have confused 2 systems. DnD had (and still has) slot-based system, not mana-based


"There are good mana based systems and bad mana based systems. D&D had (IMO, of course) one of the worst mana systems"

I hope so so D&d and hence BG series is not mana based. The soceror is the closest it has to mana magic.


My apologies. That sentence should have read:

"There are good mana systems and bad mana systems. D&D had (IMO) of course, one of the worst magic systems." (Meaning, despite not being mana-based -- I wrote 'mana' where I meant 'magic'.)

I'll edit the original post for clarity.

#65
Volourn

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I disagree with that assessment of D&D's magic system; but at least it's clearer now. Anyways, no need to apologize. Errors occur.

#66
Diamond

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IMO, DnD magic system is good, as it fits the context.
Different game styles must have appropriate magic systems, would it be mana/slots or whatever.
No system is bad or good, it's the implementation and balance.

#67
~Di

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I'm really looking forward to Dragon Age, moreso than NWN2, because it's my hope that DA returns to BioWare's party-based, party-controlled, BGII roots.

NWN is a fine, fun game... well, by the time HoTU came out it was a fine, fun game. :) I expect NWN2 to be even finer and, er, funner! But right now I'm looking at DA to be THE big RPG in my future... if I live that long. Nobody at BioWare is talking about release dates, but the rumor is that it won't hit the shelves before late 2006 or 2007. Plenty of time to rachet up my expectations so they cannot possibly be met by mere mortals!

#68
Judge Hades

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I have learned to keep my expectations in the dirt.

#69
EnderAndrew

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Hades,

Neither NWN nor DA forces you to play a Jedi.

But with mods, you will likely be able to later.

#70
Judge Hades

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It has nothing to do with the whole Jedi thing. Neverwinter Nights was one of the biggest disappointments I have ever came across in computer gaming. After BG2 I expected something better and grander than that game. Since then computer role playing games have gotten progressively worse. You either get games that play themselves like Dungeon SIege or games that were so freaking easy that can be done with eyes close like KotOR.

Expect the worse out of life and you can never be disappointed.

#71
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When I saw that poster who gave KOTOR a 9/10 and then gave KOTOR:2 a 6/10 because KOTOR:2 was too easy I wanted to die laughing.

#72
ShadowPaladin V1.0

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When I saw that poster who gave KOTOR a 9/10 and then gave KOTOR:2 a 6/10 because KOTOR:2 was too easy I wanted to die laughing.

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It's all about experience. If KOTOR was your first game then you may well think it was hard. KOTOR II uses the same model as KOTOR so you dont have a learning phase.

I used to think BG was hard, till I played it the second time ;)

None of the following IE games had the "hardness" of BG simply because I was used to how they worked by then.

#73
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I didn't think any of the IE games were hard to beat because I was familiar with the "twinks" inherent in the D&D rules.

#74
213374U

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I used to think BG was hard, till I played it the second time :)

None of the following IE games had the "hardness" of BG simply because I was used to how they worked by then.

BG had some tough ass battles, no matter how many times you played it. Sarevok was an endgame boss with a difficulty I haven't seen in any other CRPG(IE or not). Irenicus was a joke. Amelyssan was plain cheap.

I played BG only after beating IWD and BG2, so I was pretty familiar with the IE environment, and I still found it pretty challenging sometimes, even more in the higher difficulties.

#75
ShadowPaladin V1.0

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BG had some tough ass battles, no matter how many times you played it. Sarevok was an endgame boss with a difficulty I haven't seen in any other CRPG(IE or not). Irenicus was a joke. Amelyssan was plain cheap.

I played BG only after beating IWD and BG2, so I was pretty familiar with the IE environment, and I still found it pretty challenging sometimes, even more in the higher difficulties.

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Invisible thief to scout the traps.

Couple of explosive arrows to clear out his friends. He didnt last long even in the first game.

I really wanted to go one on one with him, but he was too tough for that. But he was fodder for a party. The kobold commando's with fire arrows gave me more trouble than the end encounter :)

IWD II's was kind of tough depending on what you did prior to it. But it also had a very noticable pattern. If you stopped the casters early before they could fill the area with summons (once that happened you were on the defensive) and contain the bosses till their enchantments wore off it was actually very easy. Bit like playing Zelda, figuring out the pattern is most of the battle.

KOTORs end battle was actually quite hard. I didnt have any way to crack the tubes so I had to fight him 6 or 7 times. healing the same time as he ran off to heal.

Very cheesey and not the satisfying clash I was imagining it to turn out.

#76
Percival

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IWD II's was kind of tough depending on what you did prior to it. But it also had a very noticable pattern. If you stopped the casters early before they could fill the area with summons (once that happened you were on the defensive) and contain the bosses till their enchantments wore off it was actually very easy. Bit like playing Zelda, figuring out the pattern is most of the battle.

KOTORs end battle was actually quite hard. I didnt have any way to crack the tubes so I had to fight him 6 or 7 times. healing the same time as he ran off to heal.

Very cheesey and not the satisfying clash I was imagining it to turn out.

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Try IWD2 sh..something fotress (the mission after the bridge) on the hardest difficulty. Without importing or cheating, your spellcasters should be without area damage spells such as fireball. The caves under the fotress are really hard, those goblins and orcs with cleric support really screwed me up. I have yet to see a harder non boss areas then that.

#77
ShadowPaladin V1.0

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Try IWD2 sh..something fotress (the mission after the bridge) on the hardest difficulty. Without importing or cheating, your spellcasters should be without area damage spells such as fireball. The caves under the fotress are really hard, those goblins and orcs with cleric support really screwed me up. I have yet to see a harder non boss areas then that.

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Oh yeah I remember that one.

I played with a party of 5 drow and a Deep Gnome so you can just imagine my levels. I think concentrated Xbow fire and the deepgnomes mirror image and innate AC was what carried me through.

IWD II had some really great AI and combined monster tactics.

#78
Volourn

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"IWD II had some really great AI and combined monster tactics."

Hahaha. No. IWD2 was the second easiest IE game. And, the only "good" AI was when it cheated. Otehrwise it was dumb as bricks most of the time.

#79
ShadowPaladin V1.0

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"IWD II had some really great AI and combined monster tactics."

Hahaha. No. IWD2 was the second easiest IE game. And, the only "good" AI was when it cheated. Otehrwise it was dumb as bricks most of the time.

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Funny I seems to recall you whining about things falling from ceilings :)

#80
Volourn

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"Funny I seems to recall you whining about things falling from ceilings"

Of course, you forget *why* I was complaining about them.

It wasn't the difficulty; but the stupidity of the 'cheating' so called 'AI'.




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