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Influence: a success or failure?


Lacan

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I know, I know, it's my fault. But I put in 52+ hours, and every time I pick up the XBox controller to play it again and see what I missed, I get this sick feeling and lose interest, probably because I know I just invested 52 hours in being DS and didn't get any of the DS experience.

 

 

If you wanted the Darkside experience, than you should have played darkside. Don't compromise your character simply to make people that you ultimately wouldn't care a whole lot for happy.

 

 

 

I love the concept of the influence system. The only setback of it IMO is that it wasn't fleshed out as well as it could have been. The characters wouldn't really change, which resulted in Atton giving me crap when I was evil, even though he was more darkside than I was.

 

 

A shortfall of the game (much like the previous KOTOR) is that the lightside perspective is more polished. But don't blame the influence system because the darkside part of the game was not done as well as the lightside.

 

 

As for the complaints because it made it too hard to "jedify" or be good buddies with every character.....that's precisely why it was put into the game.

Edited by alanschu
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The only problem I had with it is that story-important features are locked behind it.

 

My first time through, I was playing light side (read: no positive influence with Kreia) and I hated Bao-Dur (you were forced to take him into your party to break through shields that were there because he had a shield-breaking ability. I hate pointless forcing, so didn't take him in my party).

 

This meant that by the time I got to Malachor V, I had no possible way of knowing:

 

1) That the Exile and Bao-Dur built this gravity bomb thing to destroy the Mandalorians.

 

2) That Kreia had been part of the Nihilus-Sion team.

 

3) Why Kreia was wandering around instead of leading the Sith.

 

4) Why Malachor V looked like it did.

 

5) What the Exile had done that was so horrible and killed everybody.

 

I went to Malachor completely clueless as to why anybody cared about it in the first place. I didn't mind stuff like Mira's influence or Atton's, because you got more background into the world, but story-critical information wasn't locked away.

 

Anyway, that was the really shoddy design decision, from my point of view. Otherwise, I rather liked it, but the general complaint that there are too few opportunities for some people is also valid.

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I wish people would quit saying the old system was level based. It wasnt.

 

I just finished a replay of K1 and you didnt need to get a level to advance storyline or communications with party members. You just needed to do a none generic combat/xp encounter.

 

IE: Stuck with a characters backstory while on dant, go solve the investigation, go save juhari, go do sandral quest, go do crystal cave, ect. Any ONE of those things (set encounters) will let you advance party members backstories if they are grouped with you when you do it.

 

Levels played no role what so ever in advanceing the storyline. I had Carths (excluding saving son)/Missions (excluding saving brother), and Canderous's (excluding Jari) full story before I left Dant. I had the love scene (last thing bastila says until Leviathon excluding mother side quest) on the Ebon Hawk when we arrived at tant (1st planet I visited after dant).

 

The old system was to linear and far far far far far to easy to acheive!

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The influence system was a good idea, but the execution was weak. You could change the Force alignment of the characters, but it wouldn't really change them at all. For example, you could influence Visas to light side mastery, but she's still a Sith, still thinks cantinas full of people need to be clensed with grenades, etc. Same with the Disciple. Influence him all the way to the darkest of the dark, and he's still a Jedi fanboy.

 

Also, important plot points shouldn't require influence to unlock. Character side-quests maybe, not not stuff important to the main plot.

Edited by Taran'atar
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The influence system was a good idea, but the execution was weak.  You could change the Force alignment of the characters, but it wouldn't really change them at all.  For example, you could influence Visas to light side mastery, but she's still a Sith, still thinks cantinas full of people need to be clensed with grenades, etc.  Same with the Disciple.  Influence him all the way to the darkest of the dark, and he's still a Jedi fanboy.

 

Also, important plot points shouldn't require influence to unlock.  Character side-quests maybe, not not stuff important to the main plot.

 

Yes, for me this was one of the biggest disappointments of the game. Pissed me off to no end that I could take Handmaiden, Mira, and Bao-Dur to DS mastery yet they still objected when I was cruel to people. <_< :angry:

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The influence system was a good idea, but the execution was weak.  You could change the Force alignment of the characters, but it wouldn't really change them at all.  For example, you could influence Visas to light side mastery, but she's still a Sith, still thinks cantinas full of people need to be clensed with grenades, etc.  Same with the Disciple.  Influence him all the way to the darkest of the dark, and he's still a Jedi fanboy.

 

Also, important plot points shouldn't require influence to unlock.  Character side-quests maybe, not not stuff important to the main plot.

 

Yes, for me this was one of the biggest disappointments of the game. Pissed me off to no end that I could take Handmaiden, Mira, and Bao-Dur to DS mastery yet they still objected when I was cruel to people. <_< :angry:

I liked the influence system but it had a fault right there. If you are ds and your members turn ds than they should have ds dialogues that compliment you on killing x or saying bad things to x.

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Yeah, some answers seemed to be a bit off, but you have to remember that not everybody goes from light to dark in a single moment. Some might not even notice that they are falling to the darkside, in that case it would look quite stupid, if someone who doesn't like killing innocent people would suddenly like it.

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Influnence : stupidity. How im supposed to get it witch characters that i dont use ver often ?! I really prefer K1 style - you are leveling up, time passes by, youre spending more and more time with yure crew and all of you are become more close to each other - simple & logical.

Edited by Czulu
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I found inf. annyoing-especially seeingthat you dont know your party inf..

The most annoying part is that half your party cries if you do naughty things, while the other half fall out with you for 'following the pacifist and self-destructive' route of the Jedi.

I'd much prefer the KotOR1 system.

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The Influence system IMO is a good addition, but i feel somewhat letdown by the implementation of it.

It is quiet clear that Obsidian liked to do something different and that you didn't get more dialog, as it is with Kotor I, to get to know the people a little better, but instead they thought it better if you could turn them into Jedi / improve their or your own status. IMO it would be far better if you could unlock more dialog and a subquest of the character (like Kotor I) or maybe a combination of the two. I find more dialog very important however.

And, it would also be very welcome if you lost too much influence with a character that he/she leaves your party.

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I personaly liked the influence factor...I actually miss seeing it in K1...it can be a bit annoying when you are off busy fighting assorted baddies, and you suddenly get Carth looking worried, and the line, Carth wants to talk to you...(mind you, Mission is far worse...I mean 'bantha poodoo'? I can only take that so many times) LOL :devil:

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One of the influence system's biggest flaws is it's circumstance-based. You have to have the right character in at the right time. If not, you get no influence from them at all. As for dialogue, many times if you disagree with the NPC on something, you risk losing influence with them. It feels many times like the party members are trying to influence you. If they really wanted to make it work, they would have made so you could convince others to your own point of view even if they disagree at first.

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Influence: great idea...implementation was not all that great in K2, IMO....but it usually worked well enough.

 

As I see it, influence is there to help create a sense of dynamism and choices. However, without some party management options, it will always be half-baked.

 

In other words, it is one thing to play Pazaak with someone and then that person likes you more...OK, fine. But if you are Sir Paladin the Pureofheart, your party should not be identical to Sith Lord Killemall.

 

The ability to release party members and rotate people in and out would be sweet. That way, influence can zero in on push and pull politics. Having influence involved in their alignments just makes it too unwieldy IMO. There should only be one or two people in your pool of potential party members that can be swayed that easily when it comes to alignment.

 

I would also like to see more things like:

 

(Persuade) Come on, you can open the door for a nice guy like me.

 

(Persuade/Intimidate) You will open the door or else.

 

(Persuade/Flatter) I like that outfit...the blue brings out the blue in your eyes. Say, you wouldn't mind opening the door would you?

 

(Persuade/Taunt) I bet you don't even know how to open the door! I'll bet you 100 credits that you can't do it.

 

(Persuade/Bribe) Here is 200 gold for opening the door.

 

Morrowind had flat dialogue but it did have things like bribery and taunt that were implemented well. Having the ability to allocate points into specific aspects of persuasion would be nice.

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Someone said that it would be nice if you could persuade your followers that your way was right, and theirs was wrong. I agree with that 100% If I kill an innocent man and Handmaiden objects, I should be able to bs her and convince her that he was really an evil man and needed to be stopped. Something like "[Lie]I could sense the evil within him. The Force allows me to see such things. If he had not been stopped he would have gone on to kill hundreds of innocent people." Then she says "Oh I didn't know. Please forgive me, I trust in your judgement." Influence gain and also, you get her to approve of killing innocent people. :p

Edited by Cassidy
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Didn't I just... :p Several times here. Too many threads look alike.

 

Picking DiaLocks is ... something we have always done in games like Fallout, BG, PS:T, K1 even. And it's fun and immersive of course and romances has become the lovechild of virtually everybody. Remove it and the world will literally flood from cries.

 

But influence ... it looked better on paper, but it's only like halffinished in the K2 state. If the Influence message instead had said:

 

Kreia gained *influence* (on you).

 

It would be working and true, but the alignment shifts would still be a puzzle tho...very puzzling.

 

One important thing is missing:

Anyone that is a subject to influence also needs a personality/attitude adjustment.

If their Force alignment keeps reflecting your own even when you become the exact opposite of what you once were, then there must also be room for that change in them. Not necessarily automatic, but thru actions as well...

 

Or just thru actions only. It's simply to easy to run thru all the dialogue options on the ship and get Influence. It would be much better if influence was based on actions. Killing someone, helping someone, defending someone, standing up for someone... solely. Then you'd actually have to play with those characters to get to know their worth, story and so on. It's just too much of a piggy bank as it is.

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its pretty good i agree.. it does make things more realistic... but if you have 2 characters that clash like kreia and atton it is hard to gain influence for both, and it forces you to say things nice or things you dont really want to say... just to gain influence from a character

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