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PC "Mods" to KotOR 2


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As some may know, KotOR 1 for the PC has a massive array of Mods, from some that let you wear the revan hooded cloak and mask to being able to return to Dantooine and fight the Sith invasion. I was curious if obsidian is intending to not officially condone any modifications, and whether they are planning to make the game much harder to modify.

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LucasArts will not condone or officially support any modifications made to the game. LucasArts owns KotOR, therefor Obsidian will not condone or officially support any modifications. Simple point of survival -- don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

It is doubtful that the game will be any more difficult to modify. I would speculate that you will see mods out for KotOR2 much more quickly, since I would assume much of the internals to the game are the same. If save games are stored under a similar format (little reason to change them) then character editors will appear within a week of the PC release.

 

I think most developers are smart enough these days to understand that people are going to modify games. Some still try to do everything in their power to prevent it. The smart ones just say they don't support them and if you use one, you're on your own.

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This question was asked by me many months ago, and answered by the devs on several occassions: "[KOTOR II] will be no more nor less modable than KOTOR I".

 

KOTOR I actually only has mods because some clever people, or people with nothing better to do, figured out some of the file structures. Given the legnth of time that it has been out, it really has very few mods compared to games which provided for modding. Most of the mods consist of reskins, which aren't dificult once you know the format, dimensions and file size, and have some semblance of skill with photoshop. True mods are few and far between, and I haven't had any luck with any of them, as the code mods cause my game to crash.

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It's a bit disappointing that this game (and KOTOR 1) weren't really mod-friendly, since it could have been such a huge addition to the PC version if there were full story mods out there like there are of NWN.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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I wonder how much of it was related to LA. LA did allow for the modding of some of its other games. I wonder if it was simply not feasible for Obisidian to release tools for modders without releasing too much of their engine source code at the same time.

 

Maybe the Aurora engine (NWN) was easier to open up for modding than the Odyssey engine?

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I wonder how much of it was related to LA.  LA did allow for the modding of some of its other games.  I wonder if it was simply not feasible for Obisidian to release tools for modders without releasing too much of their engine source code at the same time. 

 

Maybe the Aurora engine (NWN) was easier to open up for modding than the Odyssey engine?

 

Based on the responses by Bioware on the Bio boards, they made it clear that Lucasarts didn't want them answering any modding questions and that Lucasarts didn't want the general public access to the tools to mod.

 

I doubt very much that if Lucasarts wanted their game to be mod-friendly that Bioware would be able to say "no, it's our engine. too bad". Georgie boy's iron fist would drop on them and squash them like a bug.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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This question was asked by me many months ago, and answered by the devs on several occassions:  "[KOTOR II] will be no more nor less modable than KOTOR I". 

 

KOTOR I actually only has mods because some clever people, or people with nothing better to do, figured out some of the file structures.  Given the legnth of time that it has been out, it really has very few mods compared to games which provided for modding.  Most of the mods consist of reskins, which aren't dificult once you know the format, dimensions and file size, and have some semblance of skill with photoshop.  True mods are few and far between, and I haven't had any luck with any of them, as the code mods cause my game to crash.

 

it sounds like you're mad you cant take credit for making modding possible. kotor was modded because it runs off an edited nwn engine. the devs claim its a whole new engine but all that means to them is that parts were changed and it was recompiled under a new project name. just like the doom 3 devs claim their's is a new engine when its just an edited quake 3 engine. heavily edited but still an edited quake 3 engine. anyway, the many tools released already by the devs of the nwn engine is why so many people started to mod it. not all the tools worked but some people managed to re-make some of the tools for kotor. if it werent for nwn before it, i doubt many would have ever tried any kind of serious modding for kotor.

 

as for the mods themselves, yes there are many. some pretty damn good ones too. i know of at least one that adds in removed parts of the game (still released with the game but taken out of the map). making a crappy skin might not be difficult once you already know everything there is to know about making one (ffs...) but a good one is not as easy as you assume. there are even some that add new force powers like temp clones of yourself that help you fight for a certain time limit. the higher you upgrade it, the more clones. funny that you havent used any of these mods but have so much to say about them. btw, in most of the mods they're not chaning any code (at most they change scripts which is written kinda like code but most dont need to) so its impossible to crash your game with them.

 

btw, for anyone interested in modding or getting mods check this site:

http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=324

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If Lucasarts is so against moding, may I ask why Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is so moding friendly?

It even have "Mod" as a own options section!

 

SW:JA and many other fps games run on the quake3 engine. This engine, though updated and enhanced, is several years old by now. So tools to mod new games with that engine are easy to come by, easy to build on (familiarity with the code, files etc. have been developed over the years), and thus a big community supports it.

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The last KotOR wasn't exactly a success with mods. Modders found it impossible to create new modules. However, they could change little things like pictures, attack damages, lightsabers, skins, items, clothing, sounds, text, location of people etc. Since K2 will be using the same engine, I doubt it will be a great success with mods.

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I guess it depends how forthcoming the Obsidian devs will be to the modders regarding engine questions. Or whether Lucasarts will allow them to be more accessible than they allowed Bioware to be.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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The last KotOR wasn't exactly a success with mods. Modders found it impossible to create new modules. However, they could change little things like pictures, attack damages, sounds, text, location of people etc. Since K2 will be using the same engine, I doubt it will be a great success with mods.

 

for a game not meant to be modded kotor modding was indeed a great success. even games with tools specifically meant to mod it have done worse. modules are not needed for modding. also by your description of kotor mods i can tell you havent tried any mods recently.

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for a game not meant to be modded kotor modding was indeed a great success. even games with tools specifically meant to mod it have done worse. modules are not needed for modding. also by your description of kotor mods i can tell you havent tried any mods recently.

 

I've tried every single quality mod that was posted or advertised on Holowan labs. Some were decent at making a next play through a bit more fun, but they were limited in what they could do to actually add to the game. When I think of "mod", I think of adding completely different stories ala NWN's modding community where you can literally play a brand new story. KOTOR's mods didn't do that.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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The last KotOR wasn't exactly a success with mods. Modders found it impossible to create new modules. However, they could change little things like pictures, attack damages, sounds, text, location of people etc. Since K2 will be using the same engine, I doubt it will be a great success with mods.

 

for a game not meant to be modded kotor modding was indeed a great success. even games with tools specifically meant to mod it have done worse. modules are not needed for modding. also by your description of kotor mods i can tell you havent tried any mods recently.

 

I'm not going to download a skin or something. If you are making an ACTUAL modification to the game, it helps to CREATE new modules so that you are not limited to those provided. Also, when the developers release an SDK, those are the tools the developers used to create the game. I strongly doubt that those tools are worse than what some person can code in a day. So, unless you are saying the developers are idiots using stupid tools, you are wrong...

 

P.S. If you haven't tried any of those mods, you haven't tried any mods at all.

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I doubt it's Obsidian Entertainment's fault that there are no mod tools. If they were against modding, why give it to us with Neverwinter Nights 2? And on Jedi Academy, it was based on the Quake 3 engine, and if it's drastically different, it wouldn't be a stretch for someone to be able to adapt tools for Quake 3 engine, so it was pointless to try.

 

However, with KOTOR, it was a new engine; and the property belonged to Lucasarts, so they apparently thought that it was in their best interested to preven us from having any serious modding.

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I think it's a fair question to ask if LA is so against modding, why they allow other games to be modded. I think it's a rumor that propogated.

 

This is from my old Questions to the Devs thread.

 

Why don't more games ship with mod/dev tools?

 

Or could it be that the developers are just busy working on their next game?

 

Any time you are going to release something to the public, even something 'unsupported', it takes someone's time to collect all the bits and put it together in one package. And most developers do not document data structures and the like, as everything changes too frequently during development.

 

Another factor is 3rd party code. Many games rely on libraries or licensed technology (thus do the tools) that cannot legally be released to the public unless they want to pay up additional license fees. Removing such things from the code to replace them with free alternatives would be a very time consuming task, if a free alternative even exists.

 

And more often than not, many of the tools and processes used to create games are built under the pressure of deadlines to get the game done resulting in undocumented, non-userfriendly stuff that would be almost useless to release to the public anyway. -Chris Jones

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it sounds like you're mad you cant take credit for making modding possible.

 

funny that you havent used any of these mods but have so much to say about them. btw, in most of the mods they're not chaning any code (at most they change scripts which is written kinda like code but most dont need to) so its impossible to crash your game with them.

 

 

??? Did you even read what I said? There was no air of anger in my post about not being the inventor of video game modding. KOTOR or otherwise.

 

Also, I had tried just about every mod ever created for KOTOR up until I started hanging out here, and was a regular, albeit mostly a lurker, at holowan for a long time. In fact, I created several complete character reskins myself. So, yes, I do know something of what I'm talking about there. And no, I have no idea where those skins are anymore. Someone hosted them, but I think his site went down a while back. To this day, if you go to any of the hosting sites you'll find 90+% of the mods are simple reskins. That is not a mod in the truest sense of the word.

 

code=script in layman's terms, and since I am not a programmer...layman's terms it is. And yes, several of the mods created to add planets and such would not run on my game. Mods allowing for new force powers and reallocation of NPCs dd run just fine.

 

I'm sorry if you feel insulted that I said that KOTOR was not made to be modded. However, I am correct. It wasn't. And TSL, as stated by Chris A. will be "no more or less moddable..." So, if mods are going to be created for TSL, it's a good thing that the engine hasn't changed much, that gives all the mod community a head start.

 

Just to be fair, I went back yesterday to try and find any improvements. I found a bunch of new reskins. A few new tools. And a lot of vapor. But no real mods. Someone did add some voice-acted dialog, but I can't see mixing that in with the original voice work. Clever, maybe, original, for KOTOR yes. Still, this does not prove that KOTOR is a great game for modding as you and the op seem to think.

 

BF 1942 total convertion mods = great mods.

KOTOR New Revan mask for your PC = not a great mod.

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What's LA's problem with mods? IMO, NWN style mods enhance the gameplay and product lifecycle of a game. I mean, if fans could make mods of the KotOR chronicles, wouldn't that be brilliant?

 

Is GL such a controlfreak that he doesn't want gamers to enhance their gaming experience?

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