Anyone need a wedding ring?

[AlanC9]

Well, as Governor Tarkin said, "I think you overestimate their chances."

 

Though come to think of it, he was wrong.

[Weiser_Cain]

~Di, at some point we ought to just let the babies have their bottles. This "under God " nonsense is really meaningful to these twits for some reason. I don't think it's really worth getting into a political fight over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Respectfully, it is to me because it truly destroys the basic foundation on which I believe this nation was constructed... and it does so deliberately, with the intent of overthrowing secular government with Christian dogma. If the insertion of Christian God-speak into our pledges, into our schools, into our judiciary and into our congress thereby insuring an evolution from secular society into a theocracy isn't worth getting into a political fight over, then I honestly don't know what is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It matters to me too but this guy isn't listening to reason and doesn't matter since he doesn't set policy. I gave up on try to convince him since the internet isn't where this fight will be won anyway.

[Volourn]

"at some point we ought to just let the babies have their bottles. This "under God " nonsense is really meaningful to these twits for some reason"

 

With attitudes like this; it's no wonder religious people don't see those who disagree with them in a favorbale.

 

I mean 'twits" and "babies with bottles" is not a good way to have a civil conversation.

 

That makes you just as bad as them, and just as arrogant when you think "your way is the only way".

[AlanC9]

Oh, great..... now Volourn's lecturing me on how to have a civil conversation.

 

But yeah, it's a fair point. Somewhere along the line I've lost the ability to pretend to respect viewpoints that I don't actually respect. Too much time on boards like this, I guess.

[Volourn]

"Oh, great..... now Volourn's lecturing me on how to have a civil conversation."

 

LOL It makes ense I would. Afterall, I know the pitfalls not to have civil conversation. Just don't follow in my footsteps if you *want* one. That's all.

[Commissar]

Oh, great..... now Volourn's lecturing me on how to have a civil conversation.

 

But yeah, it's a fair point. Somewhere along the line I've lost the ability to pretend to respect viewpoints that I don't actually respect. Too much time on boards like this, I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, good. There's no need to respect a viewpoint that says Christianity should have a role in our government (and that's what people are arguing for when they argue about 'religion,' as wel all know...Muslims don't make this argument).

 

You know, since the election everyone's been doing "The sky is falling!" routine and insisting that Democrats need some sort of detente with Republicans over issues like this. I don't think so. They say that blue states need to get back in touch with red states. I don't think so. I think we need to stop trying to entice votes away from the Republican party and start getting more votes of our own. So if we disagree, fine. I don't want to destroy any religion, I just want it out of my government. I don't want to make people happy with the idea of Bob and Fred getting married, I just want to prevent them from preventing it. I'll never understand how equal rights and anti-theocracy became losing issues, but somehow we let it happen. It needs to stop.

[AlanC9]

I'll tell you why they stopped being winning issues. A lot of people who would be sympathetic to that sort of thing see the Democrats, with some justification, as the party of social engineers and identity politics; still more who believe in these freedoms also believe in a more minimal state. If the Dems want to attract those voters, they'll have to pitch some members of their current coalition over the side. Which might not be a bad idea. I'm not sure the New Deal coalition is viable anymore.

 

Remember, there simply isn't that much of a threat to a lot of people, even if they do believe in personal freedom. What's the worst that conservatives can do? Overturn Roe v. Wade? Wouldn't change a damn thing in New York, California, or a lot of the other blue states.

[Vincent_Valashar]

"Oh, great..... now Volourn's lecturing me on how to have a civil conversation."

 

LOL It makes ense I would. Afterall, I know the pitfalls not to have civil conversation. Just don't follow in my footsteps if you *want* one. That's all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We passed the point of civility long time ago. I think it was somewhere in the 60's or 70's. Now it is either us or them, and unfortunately they are winning. What the US needs is a major wake up call so the second civil war can start. Something needs to happen to motivate the non-Christians across this country to take up arms and start a new America.

[Volourn]

"What the US needs is a major wake up call so the second civil war can start"

 

You dare take the high moral ground when you want people to be murdered en masse?

 

 

R00fles!

[Vincent_Valashar]

I am taking no moral high ground, Volourn. Never have and never will. Its not a matter of want either, its a matter of need.

[random evil guy]

"What the US needs is a major wake up call so the second civil war can start"

 

You dare take the high moral ground when you want people to be murdered en masse?

 

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i think he was speaking metaphorically; or at least i hope he was...

[Vincent_Valashar]

Actually, I'm not and nor am I taking the moral high ground either.

[Commissar]

I'll tell you why they stopped being winning issues. A lot of people who would be sympathetic to that sort of thing see the Democrats, with some justification, as the party of social engineers and identity politics; still more who believe in these freedoms also believe in a more minimal state. If the Dems want to attract those voters, they'll have to pitch some members of their current coalition over the side. Which might not be a bad idea. I'm not sure the New Deal coalition is viable anymore.

 

Remember, there simply isn't that much of a threat to a lot of people, even if they do believe in personal freedom. What's the worst that conservatives can do? Overturn Roe v. Wade? Wouldn't change a damn thing in New York, California, or a lot of the other blue states.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've never had an abortion (I lack the proper equipment), and my girlfriend wouldn't do it. Yet I'm still very pro-choice, and would be worried at an overturn of Roe v. Wade. Like so many things, it's the principal.

[Cantousent]

The folks who, from what I've heard of their backgrounds and history, live in relative comfort want a civil war? Fools.

 

I normally don't get very angry with folks concerning politics, but I lose all patience when people talk about the need for a civil war. Go ahead. You think you lost the election?? I tell you what, you'll lose a lot more if your prophesy of sedition comes to pass. ...And the United States will still exist.

 

I don't want to have to take up arms in defense of my country. I don't want to fight folks who, in a misguided frenzy, decide that a democracy is only a democracy when the people vote their way. I've heard this prayer of rebellion from quite a few people. Say all you want. Pray to whomever you wish. Plot all you can, out in the open, with the knowledge that you can talk all sorts of foolishness without any real risk to yourself. ...But know this, if I have to return to military service and kill folks who threaten my democracy and liberty, I will. I won't be alone.

 

You know, I remember Ms. Kerry talking about four more years of "hell." Hell? Is that what you people think the last four years have been for us here in the United States? You sit at a computer preaching sedition without even a notion of what Hell is. You talk about the latest computer game and music and television... it's not a question that you're a fool, only how much of a fool you are.

 

I have no doubt you won't take up arms against our country. I hope not. As angry as this ridiculous rebellion talk makes me, I wouldn't want any of you to come to harm.

[AlanC9]

Gosh, Eldar, what's wrong with secession?

 

We wouldn't be having any of these political problems if the War of Northern Agression had gone the other way, after all.

[Archmonarch]

You must be joking.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Eldar has a way with words... I would've just told people to grow up (and a succesful search check in my profile reveals that I'm in no position to do so).

 

Eldar, that post is right next to your own Buldozing Visc post (which is only second to Monte's "Sawyer, we need you for one last job" post). I salute you!

[Volourn]

"Gosh, Eldar, what's wrong with secession?"

 

There's a LOT wrong with it. for starters, take a state like New York which voted for Kerry. About 40% of its population voted for Bush so I guess those guys should be enslaved just ebcause they happen to live in NY or what/ Kicked out of their homes? R00fles! That's why seccession doesn't work because even in states that re pro Repub or Pro dem there's a lot of people living there on the other side who'd bes crewed. The US isn't a simple democracy; but a demcoracy that also has a habit of trying to protect minorities (except gays or gun owners <>).

[Nick_i_am]

lol internet

[AlanC9]

"Gosh, Eldar, what's wrong with secession?"

 

There's a LOT wrong with it. for starters, take a state like New York which voted for Kerry. About 40% of its population voted for Bush so I guess those guys should be enslaved just ebcause they happen to live in NY or what/ Kicked out of their homes? R00fles! That's why seccession doesn't work because even in states that re pro Repub or Pro dem there's a lot of people living there on the other side who'd bes crewed. The US isn't a simple democracy; but a demcoracy that also has a habit of trying to protect minorities (except gays or gun owners  <>).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But people are screwed either way. Right now neither side can get what they want.

 

Truth is, the social conservatives are the ones who should be pushing secession. Their agenda is going nowhere; this whole gay marriage flap just points out how far gay rights have come in the past decade. And yoking themselves to the free-market capitalists was a hideous strategic mistake. Capitalism doesn't preserve traditional values; it undermines them.

[Volourn]

"Right now neither side can get what they want."

 

In the end, both sides will have to make sacrfices and they'll meet in the middle. That's what a democracy which also protects the minority is all about. That's why I shake my head when I see democrats crying over the elction loss. I say so what, they losst the elction so the Republicans have the advnatage; but nowhere is it the end of the country.

 

Secession will not help anyone. At all. It'll make things worse. And, it'll simply weaken the US even more

[Vincent_Valashar]

There won't be any compromise or sacrifices. It takes 2 to compromise and religious zealots never compromise so why even bother trying to convince them?

[Volourn]

"It takes 2 to compromise and religious zealots never compromise so why even bother trying to convince them?"

 

Then again, it wasn't the religious zealots who elected George W. Bush. Just ebcause youa re rleigious doens't make you a zealot and they have been compromising for centuries so stop crying.

[TentamusDarkblade]

enjoy this read

[taks]

this guy's an idiot...

 

"Importantly, this study wasn't funded by partisan political groups. To the contrary, it was underwritten by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund and the Ford Foundation."

 

uh, these are two of the most liberal foundations out there. who's this guy trying to fool?

 

this guy consistently cites as evidence "well established facts" that are neither "well established" nor necessarily factual. his obvious disdain for bush supporters is apparent in nearly every sentence and only kerry supporters are "realists" with the foresight and knowledge to know "what's really happening" in the world.

 

i'm neither religious nor unaware of world opinion about bush. i did not close my eyes to the problems we've had. what i did notice is that slick politicians, such as kerry, bringing a cameraman to vietnam, flying his hairstylist around the country, living right and voting left, are not fit to be in office. oh, and by the way, you can't hunt dove without a license since they are migratory which means kerry either a) lied about it or b) hunted them illegally. he'd have done ANYTHING to get into office...

 

maybe it's just that those of us that didn't vote for him just plain weren't pulled in by his obvious ruse. at least we know what we're getting with bush.

 

taks