Laozi Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hey Nur Ab Sal why don't we make a new religion up based on TOTJ? One where everything else is **** if they don't go along with what we think is right? What you say? I understand your grief but everything must be coherent in SW and if TOTJ was earlier bioewaree should respect its vision of star wars.... The EU is contradicted by the newer movies. Why shouldn't KOTOR do the same? BECOUSE George Lucas himself decided about these contradictions. And these are the movies. And KOTOR is just another game made NOT by Lucas but by some uneducated canadian lackeys. Not to mention that TOTJ was created also by Lucas. Are you so lazy that you didn't read previous posts in this thread? How many times do I have to tell that TOTJ is more official that most of EU novels? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nar Ab Sal you seem to have a vested interest in if the video games follow the "EU". Do you own stock in one of the publishing companies or did you daddy write one of the books or something? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astatine Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hey Nur Ab Sal why don't we make a new religion up based on TOTJ? One where everything else is **** if they don't go along with what we think is right? What you say? I understand your grief but everything must be coherent in SW and if TOTJ was earlier bioewaree should respect its vision of star wars.... That's unsustainable: every new work in the Star Wars universe creates more backstory that every subsequent writer must know first in order to avoid trampling on it. Eventually it would become virtually impossible to add anything without causing an inconsistency, and so Star Wars would die. Even before that ultimate form of the "rot" occurs, having lots and lots of random (and often crap) backstory you have to remain consistent with just because it was written first will frustrate a writer to the extent of making them pull their hair out. As DM of a long running, plot heavy pen-and-paper D&D campaign with some players who are very good at doing the unexpected (causing me to have to make up lots of stuff on the fly) I know this can start bogging one down even if you're only dealing with your own work (I keep finding obscure little plot twists concocted on the spur of a moment that I forgot about that break things later, etc, it's sometimes fun to work around but sometimes very annoying). Dealing with lots of other people's work is going to be much worse. Bioware had to draw the line at some point, stop cross-referencing the EU and let their imagination loose. I do agree that a few things appear to be rather obviously wrong, but the story was fantastic and that's what counts. Alternate timelines is a perfectly acceptable alternative in these circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 BECOUSE George Lucas himself decided about these contradictions. And these are the movies. And KOTOR is just another game made NOT by Lucas but by some uneducated canadian lackeys. Not to mention that TOTJ was created also by Lucas.Are you so lazy that you didn't read previous posts in this thread? How many times do I have to tell that TOTJ is more official that most of EU novels? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hate to repeat myself again, but you're wrong about it being "more official" than most EU novels. I'd suggest you check out the official forums and check the books and comic section. There's a link to a site that has, what most insiders regard, as the most ACCURATE explanation of the different levels of "canon", and where each book, game, comic, short story, movie, cartoon, etc. fits in terms of which "out ranks" which. You'll find that what you're saying is absolutely false. I'll grant you that, yes, TotJ "trumps" KOTOR in terms of which is more "canon" (unless Lucas himself says that the KOTOR events trump TotJ), but TotJ is not any more canon than ANY of the EU novels. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargate: 2000 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hey Nur Ab Sal why don't we make a new religion up based on TOTJ? One where everything else is **** if they don't go along with what we think is right? What you say? I understand your grief but everything must be coherent in SW and if TOTJ was earlier bioewaree should respect its vision of star wars.... The EU is contradicted by the newer movies. Why shouldn't KOTOR do the same? BECOUSE George Lucas himself decided about these contradictions. And these are the movies. And KOTOR is just another game made NOT by Lucas but by some uneducated canadian lackeys. Not to mention that TOTJ was created also by Lucas. Are you so lazy that you didn't read previous posts in this thread? How many times do I have to tell that TOTJ is more official that most of EU novels? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> are you a lawyer by anychance? "The only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits!" - Albert Einstein. "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!" "You can try to kill me, you'd fail!, but you can try!" - Revan. "When you have exhausted all other possibilities whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Sir Arthur Conan Dole) "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nope just a star wars geek who's pissing off everyone around... HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nope just a star wars geek who's pissing off everyone around... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ..with inaccurate and false information which you're passing off as fact. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sirius Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nope just a star wars geek who's pissing off everyone around... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ..with inaccurate and false information which you're passing off as fact. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It aint so much the info, but the damn attitude with everyone that pisses me off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTORFanactic Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 It aint so much the info, but the damn attitude with everyone that pisses me off! Not to mention the fact that u seem to think that evrything in KOTOR should revolve around EU KOTOR is simply fiction in fiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 ..with inaccurate and false information which you're passing off as fact. Evidences please. And apologies if you'll not prove it! HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 ..with inaccurate and false information which you're passing off as fact. Evidences please. And apologies if you'll not prove it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read every single one of my posts (which you've ignored thus far, obviously). I point you to where you can find information about the levels of "canon" and where TotJ fits in those levels. I've pointed out numerous times that your statement that TotJ is MORE canon than most of the EU novels is absolutely false and misleading. All you have to do is read my post and you'll see my "proof". You yourself have provided no "proof" that your statement about TotJ being more "canon" than most EU novels. So to expect someone else to do so or apologize is a bit much. However, since I know you're WRONG, here's the link. It's an Adobe file and the canon description is at the bottom. Canon debate Download the file, read the bottom where it talks about how the ONLY things that are actually "canon" are the movies. Everything else is "official continuity" or lower. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 And that's it? Yes I know the official definition of a canon, but since GL participated in TOTJ creation I still think that it's more official that "Crystal Star" or other crap Here's why: Since GL is a god-creator of star wars he can change everything what he wants, he said in an interview that he views EU as alternative version of HIS star wars. And becouse of that, the fate of crap novels of barbara hambly is uncertain I might say. He is the ultimate decisive power behind star wars. Stupid canon levels and rules invented by his lackeys and clerks simply don't matter. So if he BY HIMSELF participated in the creation of TOTJ that means that TOTJ is somehow more official. It very simple: if creator of entire star wars was involved in one of elements of SW then this element is more official & important from novels, games and toys invented and made by some non important losers. Is it clear? Why you think the movies are most important? Becouse Lucas made them. You view canon through the lens of rules that were given by Lucas' lackeys and I - through the involvement - bigger or smaller - of George Lucas himself. We have different approach to the problem but that doesn't mean that I have "false and innacurate" information. I have different approach and I have my reasons. And no you don't have to apology me, this was just rhetoric figure. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Again, you're stating your opinion as fact. First of all, GL didn't participate in a big part of TotJ. He gave his consent to it. Second, whether or not YOU want to believe it to be the case, TotJ is NO more canon than Crystal Star or any other subpar EU novels. As painful as it is, that's a fact. Until you can prove me wrong with FACTS (not just what you believe), you're wrong, since atleast I've given you a huge document that clearly outlines it. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 ...crap novels of barbara hambly ... *cough*subjective*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Again, you're stating your opinion as fact. Wrong. I am stating it as my view to the matter. Don't twist my talk! Until you can prove me wrong with FACTS (not just what you believe), you're wrong, since atleast I've given you a huge document that clearly outlines it. Do you really believe in magical power of some document? Lucas can piss on that document if he'll only have such desire. He may as well say in ROTS that there wasn't Exar Kun and Revan ruled galaxy for 200 years. He can do whatever he wants and documents don't create any borders for him. For others maybe but not for him. I was asked if I am a lawyer, now I should ask you if you are a bureaucrat... HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Do you really believe in magical power of some document? Lucas can piss on that document if he'll only have such desire. He may as well say in ROTS that there wasn't Exar Kun and Revan ruled galaxy for 200 years. He can do whatever he wants and documents don't create any borders for him. For others maybe but not for him. I was asked if I am a lawyer, now I should ask you if you are a bureaucrat... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you really read anything anyone writes? I asked you to provide your proof to your argument, and all you can say is that the document (which, I might add, is HIGHLY regarded as fact, even by GL himself) is not proof. Provide proof. I have. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTORFanactic Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Why do i get the feeling Adria Teksuni will close this thread with XTREME prejudice when she sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I have provided proofs in the beginning of this thread. Believe them or not. The choice is yours. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Why do i get the feeling Adria Teksuni will close this thread with XTREME prejudice when she sees it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I doubt it. We're just exchanging views. I'm trying to be civil about it. I just want him to provide me with some kind of link of proof or something that would indicate his opinion is correct. I've tried to do so with the link I provided, but apparently unless I get George Lucas himself to send in a voice mail proving my point, it's not enough for him. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 You view world through documents I view world through forces that really decide. Yeah formally TOTJ isn't more important than Hambly's junk. But if GL had some part in it... it is much more important to me. Of course if he really had - it may be just a lie made by Anderson and dark horse staff. You must forgive but I don't have a formal way of thinking you have. As a history student I'm used to think in a speculative and inconvenient way and to discuss aggressively and endlessly - like my colleagues do. And no I don't live only by star wars. It's just a hobby like fencing. Since I usually read very big number of thick scientific books and boring articles too, I treat SW as a refreshment - and discussions about it too. You think that my discussions with you are meant to force you to something, while I like when people around me have to invent good arguments. Discussion is my life... A pity that some of you don't have enough endurance and call me words (or is it illusion?) HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astatine Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 *puts finger in where he shouldn't* Nur Ab Sal appears to have not actually said anything for quite a few pages. We know your opinion. Thank you, thank you! I disagree and I'm fed up of seeing it all over these message boards, it's gotten to the point where I see "Nur Ab Sal" against a thread and think "Oh no, not again..." Ahem. No personal offence intended, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 You view world through documents I view world through forces that really decide. Yeah formally TOTJ isn't more important than Hambly's junk. But if GL had some part in it... it is much more important to me. Of course if he really had - it may be just a lie made by Anderson and dark horse staff. You must forgive but I don't have a formal way of thinking you have. As a history student I'm used to think in a speculative and inconvenient way and to discuss aggressively and endlessly - like my colleagues do. And no I don't live only by star wars. It's just a hobby like fencing. Since I usually read very big number of thick scientific books and boring articles too, I treat SW as a refreshment - and discussions about it too. You think that my discussions with you are meant to force you to something, while I like when people around me have to invent good arguments. Discussion is my life... A pity that some of you don't have enough endurance and call me words (or is it illusion?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not even sure what half of that is supposed to mean. I'll chalk it up to the possiblity that English isn't your first language and that something was lost in the translation (I'm not being sarcastic, btw). But you proved my point for me. You finally admitted that what you've stated is NOT fact, but rather your OPINION. And that's fine. But you shouldn't use your opinion in posts to tell other people that they're wrong, or that they don't know anything about Star Wars because it doesn't fit with how YOU see the SW universe. I gave you exactly what you asked for: Proof that you were wrong about TotJ being higher on the "canon chart" than most EU novels. The fact you can't dispute that other than to say that it's all a matter of how we see the SW universe contradicts everything you've ever posted about the subject, and all your bashing of Bioware since, using your own defense against you, Bioware made their story "as they interpreted the SW universe to be". You can't have it both ways. You can't condemn Bioware for not following the TotJ closely because it ruins the continuity, yet on the other hand tell me that your opinions are still correct since the SW universe is seen through our own personal interpretation. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 To start: everything is our personal interpretation. And bashing Bioeware for their obvious mistakes...sorry pal but these are facts, while true my opinion about TOTJ's imporatnce isn't based on any document only on GL's suspected participation. Anyway we'll see how GL will show the Sith in EIII. He'll have to say something about the sith history if title is "Revenge of the Sith". Maybe he'll piss on TOTJ who knows... And english isn't my first language, true. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Sad sad, I'm afraid Nur Ab Sal has fallen to the darkside. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 or worse the French side of the force People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedipodo Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 or worse the French side of the force <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did he say that he's from France? "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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