Rhomal Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 http://pc.ign.com/articles/549/549020p1.html Very interesting developments to say the least, and I should point out the publisher is atari... Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenjac Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 http://pc.ign.com/articles/549/549020p1.html Very interesting developments to say the least, and I should point out the publisher is atari... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My 3500+ is sitting in a box waiting for an Nforce 4 board... I say go for it. In two years, 64 bit procs will be pretty common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Only 2 things holding it back, standards and the release of longhorn windows 64bit OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomal Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Only 2 things holding it back, standards and the release of longhorn windows 64bit OS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's already WinXP 64bit. Hopefully more and more drivers are being developed for that. Who knows when (and if !?) Longhorn really hits the shelves - not before '06 anyway. I can't wait to build a new 64bit system - always useful as far as more RAM goes. -Marc <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some clarification. longhorn is the next gen OS. 2 yrs out, If I recall correctly it will come out in 2 flavors, 32/64 bit winxp 64bit is in beta currently and the final will be out Q1 next yr last I seen. Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKing Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 winxp 64bit is in beta currently and the final will be out Q1 next yr last I seen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let me guess - those of us that already have Windows 32bit will have to pay for Windows 64bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 There have always been 64 bit OS's normally for servers though, as was stated because of that there are very few drivers for them. Once again everyone talks as if 64 bit computing is something completely new. Secondly what I read was that longhorn is scheduled for a 2005 release and will use true 64 bit computing.(also I have never heard of 64 bit XP) When I said standards that is because people like AMD need to make upgrades easier. People who bought the original 64 bit chips are screwed when the move to PCI express and DDR 2 come down the line. All new boards that support AMD 64 will be socket 939 meaning no swapping an old board for a new one with out a new proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomal Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 winxp 64bit is in beta currently and the final will be out Q1 next yr last I seen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let me guess - those of us that already have Windows 32bit will have to pay for Windows 64bit? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Will only come out in xp pro version and be same price as 32bit xp pro Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Marc I have one question is that directly from MS? Just curious as I was going by memory and it was from MAximum PC's latest issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Thanks Marc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Does anyone know what other titles besides UT2k4 & Far Cry that support 64-bit at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riprjak Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Only 2 things holding it back, standards and the release of longhorn windows 64bit OS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, we linux users have had stable 64bit x86 OS releases since ~january this year... personally I've been using an amd64 3200+ on an MSI K8T neo FSIR2 since Aug/Sep last year and lurve 64bit. Content creation (mp3/divx encoding and compiling) is phenomenally fast. I use 32bit compatibility libraries for things unavailable in 64bit (like wine and windows apps and the nwn client). ut2004 has a 64bit client so its all good As for standards, its basically just x86 with extra registers and longer words; its already a "standard". Ok, new instructions exist like NX etc... (ok, NX isnt new, its just been reborn on x86 architecture , but the only thing I see holding back 64bit is the mass of 32bit optimised development. Also, since Intel have copied the x86_64 concept, it would seem to be a "standard" of its own now. Other "standards", such as DX9 (is it REALLY a standard if it is proprietary??) seems hobbled specifically for 32bit (it isnt, AFAIK extensible to support 64bit words, for example). The fact that 64bit processors like amd64 support 32bit mode as well suggests that microsoft will continue their lowest common denomenator approach and not support it except for server side hardware. OpenGL, however, lends itself nicely to implementation in any architecture due to its more flexible and open basis (hint hint, Direct3D from DX9 is a SUBSET of the capabilities of openGL 2.0... LOL, off soapbox now) Hopefully the boys at Redmond can smell the breeze and are putting some effort in to serious support for 64bit across all their APIs with their next round of offerings. Ive recenly added a dual processor opteron and amd64FX to the mix; the only 32bit left in my house is my notebook and the PS2 the notebook is due for an upgrade later this year, that will probably stay 32bit unless I can find one without a radeon card (ATI do not currently show any signs of seriously supporting 64bit, unlike nvidia who have had drivers available since late last year). However, 32bit will have a VERY long tail due to the sheer force of momentum in the market for x86 processors, how many of you know someone still running windows 98?? or 95?? Gamers, enterprise back end, multimedia and CAD are the likely drivers to 64bit x86, because these people are the only ones to gain advantage from the longer words, extra registers and extra addressable RAM. Generic office users havent really needed upgrades recently... other than those driven by the artificial overhead MS introduce with successive OS releases. Course, I could just be rambling err! jak ut2004 has full, non-beta 64bit support far cry has, AFAIK, beta 64bit support (doesnt play nice in linux so I dont really play it). 64bit client (linux) for doom3 is expected when they finally release them several "linux" game clients, like vendetta online happily build for 64bit targets, but I suspect the question was for "commercial" games. Steam (linux version) reports that I am using 64bit binaries for dedicated servers for HL/CS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riprjak Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Only 2 things holding it back, standards and the release of longhorn windows 64bit OS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's already WinXP 64bit. Hopefully more and more drivers are being developed for that. Who knows when (and if !?) Longhorn really hits the shelves - not before '06 anyway. I can't wait to build a new 64bit system - always useful as far as more RAM goes. -Marc <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You need more than 4GB of ram in your desktop system then do you?? 32bit yeilds 4GB addressable space, so a 32bit OS can access 4GB of ram, cant speak for windows, of course, as I dont use it; I understand windows 9x's had issues using more than 512MB and a limit of 2GB for ram (google). The main advantage on desktops is the additional registers in 64bit mode on x86_64 chips; or the ability to use 64bit words for extreme maths like encoding (mpeg etc), raytracing and compiling Of course, PAE on x86 chips (well, Pentium Pro and later) allows for 64GB of address space; so I *really* doubt desktop users will require the increased memory boundaries offered by 64bit processors; accessing terabytes of pr0n are we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riprjak Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 winxp 64bit is in beta currently and the final will be out Q1 next yr last I seen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let me guess - those of us that already have Windows 32bit will have to pay for Windows 64bit? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course you will have to pay, MS's business is selling operating systems. If they dont keep selling the upgrades to you, they are no more. If you are sick of paying for the operating system, switch to open source, where businesses give away the OS but charge for the training/support (as an individual, you can learn to do this yourself); but dont bitch about a company charging you for their product; thats the same as complaining to have to pay for nwn2 because you bought nwn1, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuconnu Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 As for Linux & Co: It just doesn't do it software-wise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? The only reason I still have a windows installations is Powerpoint. What software do you think is lacking under linux? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 As for standards, its basically just x86 with extra registers and longer words; its already a "standard". Ok, new instructions exist like NX etc... (ok, NX isnt new, its just been reborn on x86 architecture , but the only thing I see holding back 64bit is the mass of 32bit optimised development. Also, since Intel have copied the x86_64 concept, it would seem to be a "standard" of its own now. Hmm you didn't quite read one of my posts. 64 bit needs to stadarsise some things. In AMD's case they need a standard socket, decide which bus they are going to use PCI or PCI Express, and if DDR 2is what they want. As I stated when AMD makes a move to these probably with in the next few months to a year the early adopters get screwed. I mean they have already made the move to socket 939 and said it was their standard now, and PCI express boards if I remember correctly are on the move as we speak. AMD needs to decide what they are going to do and do it. I am not bashing AMD I just want them to hurry up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomal Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 Only 2 things holding it back, standards and the release of longhorn windows 64bit OS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, we linux users have had stable 64bit x86 OS releases since ~january this year... personally I've been using an amd64 3200+ on an MSI K8T neo FSIR2 since Aug/Sep last year and lurve 64bit. Content creation (mp3/divx encoding and compiling) is phenomenally fast. I use 32bit compatibility libraries for things unavailable in 64bit (like wine and windows apps and the nwn client). ut2004 has a 64bit client so its all good <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Leave it to the linux users to get on their soapbox each and every chance they get to state how great their OS is. They never miss a opertunity.. like clockwork and predictable. I should have known the linux drones would turn this in a linux rally point. :/ "look at me I have something you windoze users dont!" And if I sound a bit annoyed I am. Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 What, you jealous or something? 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Nah its just a standard in the industry. Linux users always pipe up on the fact their operating system is more stable or cutting edge because it is open source. Yet will not make it a viable alternative to windows in fear it will become another MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Eh, what do you mean? How would they make it a viable alternative, or how would it become another MS? You can't charge for Linux. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Eh, what do you mean? How would they make it a viable alternative, or how would it become another MS? You can't charge for Linux. Viable as in anyone can use. They are afraid if some one went out and built an OS based off linux it would fall to the same short comings as MS, more worried about money than what they are actually giving the consumer. Only partially true I believe while I can not charge for Linux I do believe I can charge for derivite of it such as Redhat or lindows. I am not the best person to ask this though it would be better for someone who is a linux user to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 No, you cannot. You can charge for install packets etc. on CDs, but you'll have to make a free version of it available for public, IIRC. Lindows, by the way, isn't, AFAIK, a derivative of Linux but a Windows emulator Linux. edit: Huh? I'm sure there was some silly nonsense about Lindows being a Linux derivative below this post. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 No, you cannot. You can charge for install packets etc. on CDs, but you'll have to make a free version of it available for public, IIRC. The only way to make it free is down load and that would for the most part exclude anyone with out access to highspeed connection? Which is why they are technically charging for Redhat through a loop hole. Is this some what correct? Don't get so jumpy Sarj sometimes it takes a while for stuff to sink in which is why I deleted that post. Well, you can also buy one copy of the Red Hat install disc and install it on a gazillion PCs. For Windows, it's one license for every PC it's installed on, though I bet they have licenses for companies that are a bit more free on that. Before this goes to far understand I like Linux for many of the reasons that were brought up. Like I said though they are exploiting a loop hole to charge for Linux. Also you are correct MS offers corporate versions that can be installed on more than one computer with the same key code, it all depends on the corporate license you buy on how many computers you can install it on. The problem is all these people who hate microsoft for being the jugernaught they are are doing nothing about it. Why because Linux is free and they wont get paid. Yet they condem microsoft for the same philosophy. SInce Linux is so great build a version evryone can use and continue to support it that would hurt MS more than the complainig and hacking that is going on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Well, you can also buy one copy of the Red Hat install disc and install it on a gazillion PCs. For Windows, it's one license for every PC it's installed on, though I bet they have licenses for companies that offer a bit more freedom on that 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riprjak Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Soundtrack composers have a lot of highend tech stuff, you know. :D The more RAM per computer the less systems simultaneously except for cpu power, of course. As for Linux & Co: It just doesn't do it software-wise. -Marc <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All of the media composers I know use macs; everything else is second class. Agreed. It seems odd that win32 is limited to 2GB per app, seems odd not to use or make available PAE addressing. Of course, besides specific *brands*, Im not quite sure exactly what linux lacks softwarewise. err! jak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakoth Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 It seems odd that win32 is limited to 2GB per app, seems odd not to use or make available PAE addressing. I am not real sure why you see this as odd. All you have to do is take into account the average amount of ram per pc. Now does that mean there aren't people who use more? No not at all but if you take an average it is usually a small percentage of people that need more than that. It was apearantly something Ms felt was a low priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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