DarbiusMaximus Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Pazaak was one of the lamest mini-games I've played since that stupid-freaky-tic-tac-toe-with-monsters-and-stats-that-make-no-sense card game in Final Fantasy IX. How is it even fair at all when the player ALWAYS has to go first? You're not playing against the house. This isn't Vegas. Actually the house is fairer in Vegas than Pazaak is in the game. You're gambling against other NPC's. Dealing should alternate who it starts with each round. Flip a coin to find out who gets the first card in the first round. Or be able to choose whether you want to hit AFTER the NPC gets his card or something. Either lose pazaak all together or at least make it fair. Gambling with another person is all about luck, not being at a constant disadvantage to the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Pazaak was the most stupid side game I have came across in a CRPG. Seriously what was the point of it? Side games like that doesn't belong in a CRPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus131 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The player has the power of reaload, how is that fair to the NPC ?!? Opus131 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anari_quun Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 From what I've heard, the devs are making it so that it alternates between players as to who goes first. As for fairness, keep in mind you're always playing against a machine that always does the same thing (hit under 17, stay above 17, etc), so it's not like true gambling where risks come into play (at least not for the computer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anari_quun Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The player has the power of reaload, how is that fair to the NPC ?!? Very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The whole concept of it sucks. I mean what the hell does a card game has to do with the main game. It doesn't advance plot. It doesn't define any characters in the story. It absolutely has no function. Get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_990 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I think, like the swoop racing, there should have been a mini-quest associated with it. Like with swoop racing, you could only do the sidequest with Nikos if you were a good swoop pilot (ie. good race times), there should have been one thing about Pazzaak that you needed to beat someone in order to gain something. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akari Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 It's entirely optional, so you can just not play it if you don't want to. I never played it in the first KotOR. Nor did I ever play FF9's card game up until they forced you to win those couple rounds at a tournament. It was then that I dug up a FAQ to figure out how that thing was supposed to work. In any case, the player will alternate with the computer when it comes to going first, so it's not so unfair now. -Akari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Its still not needed so why waste the time of putting it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akari Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Its still not needed so why waste the time of putting it in. It's already there, and the time it took to make the changes wasn't much. Some people liked it, so it's not hurting anything by leaving it in. -Akari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Doesn't change the fct that it is a waste of time. Dammit, I'm right on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Then don't play it. I think it's kinda fun... But can you fix the way the computer cheats? I'll stay or hit 20, and without fail they'll ALWAYS get EXACTLY the right cards to get them on 20. Now THAT is unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 A computer is better at manipulating the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The whole concept of it sucks. I mean what the hell does a card game has to do with the main game. It doesn't advance plot. It doesn't define any characters in the story. It absolutely has no function. Get rid of it. How can you champion being "free" in your games and then bash a game that gives you a chance to take a break from the plot for a second? Most sidequests don't advance the plot in any way.....why would you want such a linear game. After all, you'd only be doing what the developer wants...not what you want. (On a side note Pazaak was a poor game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 In any case, the player will alternate with the computer when it comes to going first, so it's not so unfair now. -Akari As a person starting to ease into Pazaak, cool... It's already there, and the time it took to make the changes wasn't much. Some people liked it, so it's not hurting anything by leaving it in. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The whole concept of it sucks. I mean what the hell does a card game has to do with the main game. It doesn't advance plot. It doesn't define any characters in the story. It absolutely has no function. Get rid of it. How can you champion being "free" in your games and then bash a game that gives you a chance to take a break from the plot for a second? Most sidequests don't advance the plot in any way.....why would you want such a linear game. After all, you'd only be doing what the developer wants...not what you want. (On a side note Pazaak was a poor game). He isn't "championing" anything. He just likes to bitch and moan about everything about this game. The truth is, even if Obsidian did things EXACTLY how he's been ranting about, he'd then complain about something else. If you haven't noticed by now how all his posts are a repeat of the same drivel, basically he's just a troll who likes to complain about a game that no one is forcing him to buy. He's worse than a forum spammer. Atleast spammers get bored with spamming after a while and leave. He sticks around to post the exact same stuff in every post, regardless of whether the topic is even remotely close. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akari Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Then don't play it. I think it's kinda fun... But can you fix the way the computer cheats? I'll stay or hit 20, and without fail they'll ALWAYS get EXACTLY the right cards to get them on 20. Now THAT is unfair. The computer doesn't cheat. I swear. In-code, it's treated exactly like the player is. It gets its 4 cards randomly from a pre-selected sidedeck of 10 cards just like you do. It draws its cards at the start of its turn from the same deck that you do. It never looks at your cards. It's just following a pretty effective algorithm for winning the game. If you're not convinced, one of these days I can document exactly how it decides if it is going to hit or stay, and then you can see if it ever violates those rules or not. I promise it won't. -Akari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 As for fairness, keep in mind you're always playing against a machine that always does the same thing (hit under 17, stay above 17, etc), so it's not like true gambling where risks come into play (at least not for the computer). In Las Vegas the house always hits under 17 and stays above 17. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Then don't play it. I think it's kinda fun... But can you fix the way the computer cheats? I'll stay or hit 20, and without fail they'll ALWAYS get EXACTLY the right cards to get them on 20. Now THAT is unfair. The computer doesn't cheat. I swear. In-code, it's treated exactly like the player is. It gets its 4 cards randomly from a pre-selected sidedeck of 10 cards just like you do. It draws its cards at the start of its turn from the same deck that you do. It never looks at your cards. It's just following a pretty effective algorithm for winning the game. If you're not convinced, one of these days I can document exactly how it decides if it is going to hit or stay, and then you can see if it ever violates those rules or not. I promise it won't. -Akari I can verify this from a non-programmer's standpoint. I can kick the computers ass about 90% of the time without using force reload. I loved Pazaak, but that's probably because I love Blackjack, and that's what Pazaak is, minus one for the number goal, and add on the modifier side deck cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ^agrees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 He isn't "championing" anything. He just likes to bitch and moan about everything about this game. The truth is, even if Obsidian did things EXACTLY how he's been ranting about, he'd then complain about something else. If you haven't noticed by now how all his posts are a repeat of the same drivel, basically he's just a troll who likes to complain about a game that no one is forcing him to buy. He's worse than a forum spammer. Atleast spammers get bored with spamming after a while and leave. He sticks around to post the exact same stuff in every post, regardless of whether the topic is even remotely close. That is so wrong. I just don't like Paazak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDoe Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 The whole concept of it sucks. I mean what the hell does a card game has to do with the main game. It doesn't advance plot. It doesn't define any characters in the story. It absolutely has no function. Get rid of it. So, every single feature has to advance the plot? Right - No combat, no feats, no sidequests, no options for character development... Oh wait, now its looking less like a game and more like a book. Features are put into a game to be FUN, not to fit some archaic notion of what a "true" rpg should be. Admittedly, Pazaak was a crappy mini-game, but I'd rather it was in than out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I have read books that have had combat. COmbat can advance plot and character development very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 As for fairness, keep in mind you're always playing against a machine that always does the same thing (hit under 17, stay above 17, etc), so it's not like true gambling where risks come into play (at least not for the computer). In Las Vegas the house always hits under 17 and stays above 17. I think that depends on the house though doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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