I'm looking for tips for Blunderbuss builds (and a side question about grenades)

[Vasvary5050]

Hi folks.

1) One thing I've never really built a character around are blunderbusses, and I've also only got limited experience with Berserkers. Could anyone suggest (a) some character builds and (b) some tips for this. With Blunderbuss having a -10 accuracy to begin with, and powder burns having a distracted malus, accuracy would seem to be an issue (at least early/mid game, and I'm only at level 9 at the moment in my POTD upscale run so for now I'm interested in builds that will work now as well as later - with character respec later if necessary). I presume devoted/berserker and berserker/street-fighter are the two main ways to build a blunderbuss build (or maybe helwalker instead of Berserker)? Should powder burns be used most of the time, just situationally, or is it not worth the distraction malus and micro required to make sure you don't hit your own party (though I guess the explosive shot is going to have to be carefully aimed anyway with Berserker confusion)? Is it best to use blunderbusses single-handed for bonus to accuracy and crits (at least until higher level), or dual-wield? At first glance the mortars look best (Fire in the Hole and Hand Mortar) because of their slash/pierce AoE, but are any of the other blunderbusses better? [BTW, if anyone has a link to a berserker/***** build for ranged weapons that would be a bonus as previously I've only used barbarians for melee, but otherwise I can figure it out].

2) Another thing I rarely use and end up sitting on through most of the game are grenades? Do they work better with any particular class, or pretty much identical no matter who uses them as long as they have explosives skill (I think even perception doesn't factor into their accuracy)? 

[This is for a hired custom character not main character]

Best wishes, Vas.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Vasvary5050

[Vasvary5050]

ps. Also happy to hear about other builds that work well for blunderbusses.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Vasvary5050

[Boeroer]

Imo the best build for dual mortars is a single class Monk. Everthing else comes second, although Streetfighter has a great synergy with Powder Burns + Heating Up. So naturally my second pick would be Monk/Streetfighter. Mirke can do both - so instead of using a voiceless hireling I would recommend to give her a shot (pun intended) - she can be SC Monk as well as Monk/Streetfighter. She doesn't have the perfect statline - but she's always drunk so that makes up for it.

Berserker is bad for your party with all that AoE unless you get rid of the confusion. Then ok.
If you have a Chanter in the party with Many Lives skeletons then that confusion can be turned into something very good, see below. Barb in general works but isn't the optimal class for it imo. 

I value mortars over normal blunderbusses in general so I will cocentrade on good builds with those and leave the multipellet-blunderbusses to other commenters (see Combusting Wounds+pellets or Kitchen Stove's THunderous Report for massive focus gain).

Following list is in no particular order, althoug most likely the best ones/most fun ones will come to my mind sooner.

• SC Monk, main reasons:
  • AoE*(AoE hand mortar + 2*AoE Fire in the Hole +2*AoE Powder Burns) with Whispers of the Wind, in combination with:
  • Resonant Touch - if the mob's not dead after WotW alone it will be after Resonant Touch (those two points are so incredibly powerful that it's really hard to beat)
  • Stunning Surge: almost always a crit against multiple enemies, hence no cost. Long stun in a big AoE bc. of Duality oMP (INT)
  • huge AoE bc. of Duality of Mortal Presence
  • +2 PEN bc. Thunderous Blows
  • Summons that help to deter enemies
  • Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak works with Whispers of the Wind (invisibility doesn't break: all enemies stunned on the fly)
• Monk/Streetfigher:
  • always heated up (-50% reload, +50% Sneak Attack dmg)
  • lots of Full Attacks + afflictions in an AoE with Crippling Strike, Blinding Strike, Stunning Surge and so on
  • huge AoE like SC Monk
  • +2 PEN
  • Summons
• SC Assassin or SC Streetfighter:
  • Gambit with dual mortars is very good against multiple enemies. Its damage scales internally with Guile refund per crit - it is capped at 4 but while executing the "internal guile counter flows over and you get dmg bonuses up to 200-300% until the refund cap is applied. Also lots of crits bc. of multiple hit rolls and thus often full refund.
  • Vanishing Strikes + AoE: works with Assassinate and Backstab(!) - Escape into the crowd, turn invisible with 1 Vanishing Strike (its invisibility never breaks until duration runs out) and follow up with Gambit and deal AoE Assasinate+Backstabs with mortars. Devastating AoE dmg. Also works with Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak.
• Streetfighter/Arcane Archer: 
  • more ACC
  • Driving Flight + all the Rogue's Strikes = more AoE dmg and more debuffing and raw DoTs and stuff
  • Imbue Shots' effects get triggered thrice(!) bc. of Fire in the Hole's jump + Driving Flight. So for example 3 Fireball procs from one imbue shot with Fire in the Hole. Or three Pull of Eora with one imbue shot. You get the idea.
  • Wounding SHot doesn't work with AoE - Concussive Tranquilizer does. 
• SC Stormspeaker (Tekehu)
  • double reload bonus from Sure-Handed Ila (-20% from recovery bonus AND -20% from reload bonus)
  • Watch out: Mith Fyr doesn't work on Thekehu (gets cleared periodically by his Wavewalker passive)!
  • Avenging Storm invocation: the lightning triggers from every AoE hit (including jumps) and also the Blinding Smoke effect of Hand Mortar which procs an AoE cone from every mortar crit(!) --> thunderstorm of lightning strikes
• SC Druid:
  • Avenging Storm mayhem like above basically but limited to 2/encounter and no Sure-Handed Ila.
• SC Barbarian:
  • Heart of Fury and Barbaric Retaliation both work with Hand Mortars (and AoE). Works great in combo with spamming Dazing Shout in between. Blood Surge can get you Rage back pretty nicely. Before that it's a bit lame though. Frenzy helps, Bloodlust and Bloody Slaughter, too. But Blood Thirst doesn't work which is a shame.
  • Berserkers can stay confused and blow up inside mobs - if there are Many Lives Skeletons that run towards the enemies of the Berserker automatically he can kill them "accidentiually" and get lots and lots of kill procs for Bloodlust, Blood Surge and heal on kill (pets or Thriumph of the Crusaders). Makes him early unkillable - but you cannot go near him with party members. 
  • Furyshaper can use Blood Ward and profit a lot from Barbaric Retaliation doing AoE dmg to fill up his health gradually all the time. When big chunks of healing is needed trigger HEart of Fury.
• SC Arcane Archer:
  • Whirling Strikes will work if you put a melee weapon in one hand and leave Fire in the Hole in the other. You will get AoE(melee)+AoE Powder Burns + AoE*(AoE FitH + AoEFitH jump + AoE Driving Flight) with it which not only does tremendous AoE dmg right on but also puts that nasty DoT on everybody.
  • Before that a bit lame except the already described imbue-jumps mechanic which is very good.
  • Hunter's Claw etc. does work with mortar also if you keep that melee weapon in the main hand. You'll get multiple stacks of Hunter's Fang/Claw etc. with a single shot. 
•  Streetfighter/Fighter
  • besides the known Streetfighter stuff, fighters get Penetrating Strike for great PEN and Tactical Barrage for more AoE
  • Clear Out works with the mortars if you put a melee weapon in the offhand to unlock the use of the ability but execue it with the mortar. The result is AoE Powder Burns +AoE*(AoE FitH + AoE FitH jump) and violent pushes of all enemies in al directions like bowling pins.
• SC Fighter:
  • Clear the Path or Clean Sweep are both very good with the setup above. Before that pretty lame
• Berserker/Troubadour:
  • Ancient Brittle Bones and Many Lives Skeletons killed by your mortar AoE does stuff for you (mostly healing on kill which counters your self damage - Blood Thirst doesn't work though).
  • Sure-Handed Ila + Mith Fyr
  • summons galore

Most fun above all I had with the SC Monk, in my case Helwalker. Here's an impression:

But I guess Mirke as Monk/Streetfigter could also be mad fun. 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Boeroer

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Vasvary5050 said:

2) Another thing I rarely use and end up sitting on through most of the game are grenades? Do they work better with any particular class, or pretty much identical no matter who uses them as long as they have explosives skill (I think even perception doesn't factor into their accuracy)? 

because perception doesn't influence grenades, classes that have other ways to boost accuracy or effectiveness can do better. i really like grenades on fighters, for example, because they have an easy way to get at least Aware (50% graze to hit) and +5/10 accuracy (adventurer/conquereror stance). Tactical Barrage grants +1 PL as well (which helps accuracy and overall effectiveness of grenades). Monks with Dance with Death can get up to +15 accuracy to grenades. Rangers can get tons of accuracy, but expensively. Priests can help anyone out with the still-OP Devotions for the Faithful (+10 acc), and/or Dire Blessing (50% graze to hit).

explosives are definitely worth using, and i aggressively craft them so I don't have to worry about hoarding them. Cinder Bomb esp I find to be a great equalizer - not only is blind an effective affliction for survivability, but they always interrupt enemies when they explode (the interrupt completely ignores accuracy checks). A great way to mess up casters and to buy yourself breathing room. (Other bombs don't appear to do this)

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

Monks with Dance with Death can get up to +15 accuracy to grenades.

Dance of Death caps at +12 accuracy.

Cipher's Borrowed Instinct shouls also be nice (+20 ACC).

Do you know if the Helm of the White Void/Rymrgand's Influence does add +10 ACC to grenades that cause an affliction?

[thelee]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Do you know if the Helm of the White Void/Rymrgand's Influence does add +10 ACC to grenades that cause an affliction?

absolutely does. only bombs that don't benefit are precisely the ones w/out an affliction (grenade, concussion bomb, immolator, that healing bomb). tested/verified each one for that interrupt-focused druid build i posted a while back.

ring of focused flame also boost sparkcrackers and cinder bomb (also immolator).

cinder bombs end up being pretty great on top of the guaranteed interrupt because of how much accuracy you can stack with them, and how you craft 2 at a time.

[thelee]

11 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Dance of Death caps at +12 accuracy.

huh... really? i've been thinking it was +15 for literally years

[Shai Hulud]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

because perception doesn't influence grenades, classes that have other ways to boost accuracy or effectiveness can do better. i really like grenades on fighters, for example, because they have an easy way to get at least Aware (50% graze to hit) and +5/10 accuracy (adventurer/conquereror stance). Tactical Barrage grants +1 PL as well (which helps accuracy and overall effectiveness of grenades). Monks with Dance with Death can get up to +15 accuracy to grenades. Rangers can get tons of accuracy, but expensively. Priests can help anyone out with the still-OP Devotions for the Faithful (+10 acc), and/or Dire Blessing (50% graze to hit).

explosives are definitely worth using, and i aggressively craft them so I don't have to worry about hoarding them. Cinder Bomb esp I find to be a great equalizer - not only is blind an effective affliction for survivability, but they always interrupt enemies when they explode (the interrupt completely ignores accuracy checks). A great way to mess up casters and to buy yourself breathing room. (Other bombs don't appear to do this)

I haven't been using explosives besides scripted interactions really. Or poisons. I do use potions and scrolls. 

Do you find it worth investing points into explosives and if so how much? 

----

BTW @Vasvary5050 an easy way to avoid berserker confusion for mortars and such is just give the berserker the devil of caroc breastplate with mechanical mind enchant. 

Also FF SC and MC builds are pretty good using mortars or blunderbuss in main hand (or offhand, or both). The attack still does forbidden fist but if you proc swift flurry, heartbeat drumming, or riposte (in case of shadowdancer) there's instant blunderbuss attacks without reload. Pretty fun on a FF / streetfighter with high deflection. Requires community patch for FF attacks to proc these things though. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks everyone. Been experimenting with mortars and blunderbusses today and I really appreciate all this information! Going to start using grenades more aggressively too.

[Boeroer]

7 hours ago, thelee said:

huh... really? i've been thinking it was +15 for literally years

Uh... I was very sure but now you are giving me doubts.

[Shai Hulud]

12 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Uh... I was very sure but now you are giving me doubts.

It is +12

[Vasvary5050]

19 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Do you find it worth investing points into explosives and if so how much? 

I know this question was aimed at @thelee rather than me, and I would like to know the answer as well. Is there a cap (soft or hard) on the explosives skill? Worth maxing on one character? I've got a devoted ghost-heart in my party who I'm thinking of maxing out explosives on (so far I've levelled explosives to 10).

[Boeroer]

36 minutes ago, Vasvary5050 said:

 Is there a cap (soft or hard) on the explosives skill? Worth maxing on one character? 

There is no hard cap. This article is still up to date afaik: https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Explosives

Since the skill governs PEN and ACC I would (at least on PotD) either not use it at all or go all-in (sort of).

Edited May 20, 2023 by Boeroer

[Vasvary5050]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Since the skill governs PEN and ACC I would (at least on PotD) either not use it at all or go all-in (sort of).

Makes sense. All in for now (I can always respec later). 

[thelee]

i would second going all-in on explosives, if you go into explosives in the first place. explosives are really versatile, and at really high levels the scaling you can achieve on some effects is really great, and it's never not worth it to point a point in.

 

but if you just want to scatter-brain some enemies, you can use cinder bombs with their auto-interrupt without having to worry about a single point of explosives.

[Pharaoh]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:02 PM, Boeroer said:

Imo the best build for dual mortars is a single class Monk. Everthing else comes second, although Streetfighter has a great synergy with Powder Burns + Heating Up. So naturally my second pick would be Monk/Streetfighter. Mirke can do both - so instead of using a voiceless hireling I would recommend to give her a shot (pun intended) - she can be SC Monk as well as Monk/Streetfighter. She doesn't have the perfect statline - but she's always drunk so that makes up for it.

Berserker is bad for your party with all that AoE unless you get rid of the confusion. Then ok.
If you have a Chanter in the party with Many Lives skeletons then that confusion can be turned into something very good, see below. Barb in general works but isn't the optimal class for it imo. 

I value mortars over normal blunderbusses in general so I will cocentrade on good builds with those and leave the multipellet-blunderbusses to other commenters (see Combusting Wounds+pellets or Kitchen Stove's THunderous Report for massive focus gain).

Following list is in no particular order, althoug most likely the best ones/most fun ones will come to my mind sooner.

• SC Monk, main reasons:
  • AoE*(AoE hand mortar + 2*AoE Fire in the Hole +2*AoE Powder Burns) with Whispers of the Wind, in combination with:
  • Resonant Touch - if the mob's not dead after WotW alone it will be after Resonant Touch (those two points are so incredibly powerful that it's really hard to beat)
  • Stunning Surge: almost always a crit against multiple enemies, hence no cost. Long stun in a big AoE bc. of Duality oMP (INT)
  • huge AoE bc. of Duality of Mortal Presence
  • +2 PEN bc. Thunderous Blows
  • Summons that help to deter enemies
  • Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak works with Whispers of the Wind (invisibility doesn't break: all enemies stunned on the fly)
• Monk/Streetfigher:
  • always heated up (-50% reload, +50% Sneak Attack dmg)
  • lots of Full Attacks + afflictions in an AoE with Crippling Strike, Blinding Strike, Stunning Surge and so on
  • huge AoE like SC Monk
  • +2 PEN
  • Summons
• SC Assassin or SC Streetfighter:
  • Gambit with dual mortars is very good against multiple enemies. Its damage scales internally with Guile refund per crit - it is capped at 4 but while executing the "internal guile counter flows over and you get dmg bonuses up to 200-300% until the refund cap is applied. Also lots of crits bc. of multiple hit rolls and thus often full refund.
  • Vanishing Strikes + AoE: works with Assassinate and Backstab(!) - Escape into the crowd, turn invisible with 1 Vanishing Strike (its invisibility never breaks until duration runs out) and follow up with Gambit and deal AoE Assasinate+Backstabs with mortars. Devastating AoE dmg. Also works with Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak.
• Streetfighter/Arcane Archer: 
  • more ACC
  • Driving Flight + all the Rogue's Strikes = more AoE dmg and more debuffing and raw DoTs and stuff
  • Imbue Shots' effects get triggered thrice(!) bc. of Fire in the Hole's jump + Driving Flight. So for example 3 Fireball procs from one imbue shot with Fire in the Hole. Or three Pull of Eora with one imbue shot. You get the idea.
  • Wounding SHot doesn't work with AoE - Concussive Tranquilizer does. 
• SC Stormspeaker (Tekehu)
  • double reload bonus from Sure-Handed Ila (-20% from recovery bonus AND -20% from reload bonus)
  • Watch out: Mith Fyr doesn't work on Thekehu (gets cleared periodically by his Wavewalker passive)!
  • Avenging Storm invocation: the lightning triggers from every AoE hit (including jumps) and also the Blinding Smoke effect of Hand Mortar which procs an AoE cone from every mortar crit(!) --> thunderstorm of lightning strikes
• SC Druid:
  • Avenging Storm mayhem like above basically but limited to 2/encounter and no Sure-Handed Ila.
• SC Barbarian:
  • Heart of Fury and Barbaric Retaliation both work with Hand Mortars (and AoE). Works great in combo with spamming Dazing Shout in between. Blood Surge can get you Rage back pretty nicely. Before that it's a bit lame though. Frenzy helps, Bloodlust and Bloody Slaughter, too. But Blood Thirst doesn't work which is a shame.
  • Berserkers can stay confused and blow up inside mobs - if there are Many Lives Skeletons that run towards the enemies of the Berserker automatically he can kill them "accidentiually" and get lots and lots of kill procs for Bloodlust, Blood Surge and heal on kill (pets or Thriumph of the Crusaders). Makes him early unkillable - but you cannot go near him with party members. 
  • Furyshaper can use Blood Ward and profit a lot from Barbaric Retaliation doing AoE dmg to fill up his health gradually all the time. When big chunks of healing is needed trigger HEart of Fury.
• SC Arcane Archer:
  • Whirling Strikes will work if you put a melee weapon in one hand and leave Fire in the Hole in the other. You will get AoE(melee)+AoE Powder Burns + AoE*(AoE FitH + AoEFitH jump + AoE Driving Flight) with it which not only does tremendous AoE dmg right on but also puts that nasty DoT on everybody.
  • Before that a bit lame except the already described imbue-jumps mechanic which is very good.
  • Hunter's Claw etc. does work with mortar also if you keep that melee weapon in the main hand. You'll get multiple stacks of Hunter's Fang/Claw etc. with a single shot. 
•  Streetfighter/Fighter
  • besides the known Streetfighter stuff, fighters get Penetrating Strike for great PEN and Tactical Barrage for more AoE
  • Clear Out works with the mortars if you put a melee weapon in the offhand to unlock the use of the ability but execue it with the mortar. The result is AoE Powder Burns +AoE*(AoE FitH + AoE FitH jump) and violent pushes of all enemies in al directions like bowling pins.
• SC Fighter:
  • Clear the Path or Clean Sweep are both very good with the setup above. Before that pretty lame
• Berserker/Troubadour:
  • Ancient Brittle Bones and Many Lives Skeletons killed by your mortar AoE does stuff for you (mostly healing on kill which counters your self damage - Blood Thirst doesn't work though).
  • Sure-Handed Ila + Mith Fyr
  • summons galore

Most fun above all I had with the SC Monk, in my case Helwalker. Here's an impression:

But I guess Mirke as Monk/Streetfigter could also be mad fun. 

 

Best of both worlds is

Mirke Monk/Streetfighter to carry the early game

And MC SC monk for the late game