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Why are we limited to Dark or Light?


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The world isn't dark or light, good or evil... for the most part it's just shades of grey. There should be a 3rd story path for the character that wishes to remain neutral toward the force. Let that character draw his/her power from both sides, at a greater cost. Just my two cents worth.

 

 

 

(and yes I realize that I just posted a thread about this, but for some reason my pc froze when I submitted the 1st post and it didn't show up so I re-posted only to find the 1st appear afterward. Sorry guys)

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I do agree there is not always a Dark or Light way to do a thing...there are greys in this world that pad the great distance between light and dark.

 

This is the case if you read some of the novels in the newer post Empire Star Wars..I think some of the authors are exploring the abstract between the light and dark side of the force.

 

In some ways I think for force using purposes there is a Light and Dark..in that if you use the force to actively affect something outside of yourself then often it's the province of the Dark side the more destructive side. Where you would use it to augment and support yourself it's more the province of the Light Side. After all to assist yourself is generally agreed to be a good thing...to force something onto another is destructive in that you took their own free will out of the equation...ok that's getting way abstract.

 

My point is the games and stories before the fall of the empire seem to me to want to point out and flag all the flaws of both sides of the force. To sound sappy the Lightside always seemed evil to want to force practicioners to shun love and family. After all the lightside is associated with life and yet love and family are what first represents life to many of us...and the Jedi shun it...how sad and wrong.

 

That's the greatest change Anakin/Vader brings into the force...at least I always thought so. He picked family over either side of the force.

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You Know what I mean! Why can't you stay neutral towards the force and play through the game on a path that's designed for that? I think it would add a high replay value to the game.

Again, I echo, "this is Star Wars"

 

You have good guys. You have bad guys.

 

Were this another setting, I'd totally agree that life shouldn't be black or white.

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Yup, Star Wars is about the epic battle between good and evil. Real World is about grappling with moral ambiguties where any choice could turn out to be wrong. Star Wars and Real World are not related.

Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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Even KOTOR had the "grey" path in several instances. Many NPC encounters gave you light, dark, or grey area options. Jolee Bindo himself was a "grey" area character, although he was against the Sith philosophies.

 

e.g. someone rewards you for a deed, you can either tell him/her to keep reward (light), just accept it (grey area), or demand a better reward (dark).

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Even KOTOR had the "grey" path in several instances. Many NPC encounters gave you light, dark, or grey area options. Jolee Bindo himself was a "grey" area character, although he was against the Sith philosophies.

 

e.g. someone rewards you for a deed, you can either tell him/her to keep reward (light), just accept it (grey area), or demand a better reward (dark).

That's just what I'm talking about. I think that you should be able to play in the grey area all the way through and get an ending specifically designed for the grey character. Despite what others think, this DOES go along with the star wars universe as there were jedi who were more grey than light or dark (ie Qui Gon)

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Qui-gon and Jolee and indeed Han Solo may be grey in thier personal beliefs, but when it comes to the crunch they come down on the light, as indeed the Fetts come down on the dark side (at least in the movies).

 

I can't really envision an ending for KotOR which could be considered grey. Either you atone for your actions and help destroy the star forge or you reclaim your past identity as the dark lord of the Sith. Somehow killing Malak then putting the Star Forge up for sale to the highest bidder does not seem like an option that Revan would consider.

Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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Yeah, I see your point. I would be difficult to flesh out a believable ending where you don't side with either light or dark. Still if there were a way to do it, it would add a whole new way to play through the game. I played through KOTOR countless times using countless combinations, light male, dark female ect. but to be able to play a grey or neutral character would allow even more replayability. Maybe not something to do on your first or second time through, but gives you a reason to come back for more once you have played through as light and dark.

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As a jedi it's supposed to be very hard to remain 'in the middle' as the dark side tries to pull you down(impossible it seems). A normal person may be able to skirt the edge or even go back and forth at will, but it's difficult as a force sensetive to avoid the pull of the fore in any given direction. The influence of the dark side is insidious.

Yaw devs, Yaw!!! (

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I can't really envision an ending for KotOR which could be considered grey. Either you atone for your actions and help destroy the star forge or you reclaim your past identity as the dark lord of the Sith. Somehow killing Malak then putting the Star Forge up for sale to the highest bidder does not seem like an option that Revan would consider.

Well, there's the DS female ending Bio cut, where when Carth confronts you on the Star Forge, you renounce the Dark Side and kill Bastila, and both of you go down in flames with the Star Forge.

 

It's still LS, but not as hunky-dory as the main LS ending. It would have been my favorite if they'd left it in.

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The world isn't dark or light, good or evil... for the most part it's just shades of grey. There should be a 3rd story path for the character that wishes to remain neutral toward the force. Let that character draw his/her power from both sides, at a greater cost. Just my two cents worth.

 

 

 

(and yes I realize that I just posted a thread about this, but for some reason my pc froze when I submitted the 1st post and it didn't show up so I re-posted only to find the 1st appear afterward. Sorry guys)

WHAT MAKES A MAN TURN NEUTRAL... LUST FOR GOLD? POWER? OR WERE YOU JUST BORN WITH A HEART FULL OF NEUTRALITY??!!??

 

-zapp brannigan

 

 

:D :D :D :D :D

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The world isn't dark or light, good or evil... for the most part it's just shades of grey.  There should be a 3rd story path for the character that wishes to remain neutral toward the force.  Let that character draw his/her power from both sides, at a greater cost.  Just my two cents worth. 

 

 

 

(and yes I realize that I just posted a thread about this, but for some reason my pc froze when I submitted the 1st post and it didn't show up so I re-posted only to find the 1st appear afterward.  Sorry guys)

WHAT MAKES A MAN TURN NEUTRAL... LUST FOR GOLD? POWER? OR WERE YOU JUST BORN WITH A HEART FULL OF NEUTRALITY??!!??

 

-zapp brannigan

 

 

:D :D :D :D :D

I think most people are neutral when you really get down to it. It isn't greed or some self-righteous bs, but indifference that causes a man to be a grey character. I think that someone who doesn't really care about what happens one way or another would be grey.

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You are wrong, neutral tends to flavor good aligment systems because they are not repressed by then.

 

What you fail to understand is that in Star Wars people would tend to favor the lightside because the alternative is worst for then and so things are just light side or dark side with the "grey" favoring the light side because its unlikely to repress then as the dark side.

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I would have liked to be a neutral jedi... Although, it seems, everyone has choices. I doubt Revan, when faced with the dilemma of saving or conquering the galaxy, would have opted to go home for some tea and crumpets.

 

Something I'd like to see, and this is probably a little off topic, is the force actually affecting your alignment. My KoToR jedi has LS mastery... But is using the Kill power - A vile use of the force, so we are told. Why does he remain LS? Surely the use of such a vile power would bring him towards the dark side?

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Yep, its Star Wars and that is why it is crap-ass setting to make into a CRPG.

??? but you still play it anyway?

Played the first one twice now its gathering dust. Good game with no significant staying power. I won't be getting the sequel. If I get the urge to plar a SW game again I'll install KotOR again.

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Played the first one twice now its gathering dust.  Good game with no significant staying power.  I won't be getting the sequel.  If I get the urge to plar a SW game again I'll install KotOR again.

Yea, right B) That's why your on this forum.

 

And Star Wars sucks for a CRPG because it favors having a good or evil side?

 

I thought that your supposed to have consequences for your actions in CRPGs..

What if I wanted to kill the other bounty hunters but still have the Twi'leks chase me?

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Getting back on topic, I do think it would be a good idea to have more than 2 possible endings, not nesesaraly light, dark or neutral. Here are some of my thoughts for alternative endings to the first game.

  • Revan Sacrifices self to destroy Star Forge.
  • Malak pursuaded to repent/join Revan.
  • DS Bastilla stabs Revan in the back and takes Star Forge.
  • DS Revan chooses to kill Bastilla. As a result the republic fleet destroy Revan and the Star Forge even though Malak is defeated.
  • The republic capture the Star Forge intact and it's dark side power starts to corrupt them (Revan could have the option of activating the self destruct).
  • Revan reprograms the Star Forge droids to kill Malak, but they get out of control and destroy both the republic and the Sith.

Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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