Jump to content

Ukraine Conflict


Chilloutman

Recommended Posts

could have been AA as well if it was S300

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Russian planes did already shoot their missile at Ukrainian targets from Belarus airspace though.

Yah but those are cruise missiles, don't think the S-300 in ground attack's got that great a range - 85 km if I recall.

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We’ll se, so far the most probable outcome which is currently talked about is invocation of Article 4.

  • Thanks 1

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know what to make of this story. Certainly very interesting, but is it credible? I would think something like this would come out in the regular press. But I have seen some US think-tank academics presenting similar "deals" in articles recently, because the consensus among war specialists and US defense officials appears to be that Russia's defeat in Kherson is a strategic catastrophe for them. Anyways, thought it'd at least be entertaining reading for people here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

We’ll se, so far the most probable outcome which is currently talked about is invocation of Article 4.

 

 

Edited by Malcador
  • Thanks 1

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Yah but those are cruise missiles, don't think the S-300 in ground attack's got that great a range - 85 km if I recall.

 

S-300VM had range of 200-250km and S-300 has range of 400km.

Most of Ukraine's S-300 are either S-300V variant which has range of 85km or S-300P which had 75km range

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The long range versions aren't being used for ground attack though- hence the 85km range Malc cited. The debris matches a 5v55R, which Russia uses for ground attack and Ukrainian uses for AD. Don't think it's anywhere near solid enough to say definitively it is debris from that model, but if it is it has to be Ukrainian as a Russian one physically could not fly that far. There's a workable scenario below where it is a Russian long range missile, that just isn't a very likely scenario.

At this point near definite they (if there actually were two) were S-300 missiles. The debris is a near precise match, crater fits, everything.

41 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Yah but those are cruise missiles, don't think the S-300 in ground attack's got that great a range - 85 km if I recall.

They would not have been fired in ground attack mode, but they could still have been Russian missile(s) fired at Ukrainian planes. Fundamentally not very likely- long way away, Ukrainian planes always fly low, missiles have a self destruct- which to be sure doesn't always work...) but possible. Far, far more likely to be Ukrainian AD missiles though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They can be used but they suffer from poor accuracy which is why they are used even less often than shorter range variants.

Edit: none of the S-300 variants have designed to be used primarily against ground targets. But all of them are technically cabale to target ground targets 

Edited by Elerond
More info
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Where I came across the range, although a guy from RUSI may not know exactly.

Also came across this, amusing uber-hawk rant :lol:

 

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The target was most likely the TPP very close to the borders, and AD was working.

Edited by Mamoulian War

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh, our news has just downgraded it to "Russian made" missile rather than "Russian".

17 minutes ago, Elerond said:

They can be used but they suffer from poor accuracy which is why they are used even less often than shorter range variants.

Yes, the longer range versions definitely can be used for ground attack in theory. End of the day you can use any missile for ground attack in theory though, due to gravity. They've just never been used for it before, they would be a really weird choice for a precision attack and there are far better alternatives (ie drones) if you don't want as big a bang as a cruise missile. The only scenarios that would make sense are failed AD from Russia or Ukraine, not ground attack.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In other news, here is, what Wagnerites are thinking about the missile strikes. TLDR they are useless, as they do not target any military infrastructure 🤷‍♂️ They have finally admitted publicly, what I was saying few months ago already 🤷‍♂️

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Heh, our news has just downgraded it to "Russian made" missile rather than "Russian".

Yes, the longer range versions definitely can be used for ground attack in theory. End of the day you can use any missile for ground attack in theory though, due to gravity. They've just never been used for it before, they would be a really weird choice for a precision attack and there are far better alternatives (ie drones) if you don't want as big a bang as a cruise missile. The only scenarios that would make sense are failed AD from Russia or Ukraine, not ground attack.

 

Russia has started to use high velocity anti ship missiles because Ukraine's air defense can't intercept them because their anti air missiles don't have enough speed to hit one, even though they aren't accurate against land targets. And as stock of Russian high speed cruise missiles get thinner and Ukraine does not have air force or missiles which Russia needs high speed air defense missiles to defend against it would not be surprise if they have decided to use those missiles to bombard Ukraine as even though they are less accurate they still be more effective than lower speed missiles as Ukraine is not able to shoot them down 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Out of 90 missiles launched yesterday, 70 were shot down though. Still passed enough, to make a lot of damage to civilian infrastructure…

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hard to ascertain the significance of this as of yet, but looks interesting to me, at least. Russian code spotted in places where it probably shouldn't be spotted. Two reports:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-russian-software-disguised-american-finds-its-way-into-us-army-cdc-2022-11-14/

https://9to5mac.com/2022/11/14/us-army-ios-app/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

“There is preliminary information that contests that,” Biden told reporters when asked if the missile had been fired from Russia. “It is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.”

Quote

Initial findings suggest that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, Associated Press reported on Wednesday, citing U.S. officials.

 

Edited by Bartimaeus
Quote

How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart.

In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some polish news are reporting, that based on pictures, it might be Kh-101 missile as well. The article in the link bellow is also speaking that the other option is UA AD.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/11/16/7376552/

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Paints a picture of how willing they are to join the conflict directly, considering how fast they responded.

Nah, thats not the main reason for this response. For NATO\US to go to war with Russia there has to be a legitimate and proven infringement of NATO war rules which translates to a deliberate attack on a NATO member and then they would still discuss the response and how things would need to escalate 

This is not  a deliberate and proven attack on a NATO member until the facts  are clear. The US is making the right statement 

 

  • Thanks 1

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

“There is preliminary information that contests that,” Biden told reporters when asked if the missile had been fired from Russia. “It is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.”

Considering that if Russia fired it they would have fired it from Belarus or Black Sea, so statement that it wasn't fired from Russia is true almost every possible scenario 🤷‍♂️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Lexx said:

I'm not an expert, but maybe this wouldn't have happened if russia wouldn't have launched missiles again.

Sounds plausible, I agree. I have also sometimes wondered that places like Mariupol might still be standing if Russia hadn't shelled them with abandon for so long. Plenty of Ukrainians might also be living peacefully at home if Russia hadn't invaded.

But of course this is conjecture. Let us not be too hasty to blame Russia.

 

EDIT: Biden has apparently told the G7 that it was a Ukrainian air defence missile.

Edited by xzar_monty
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Court of arbitration decided today that Gazprom broke it contracts when it demanded payments in rubles and stopped delivering gas. Which could mean that Gazprom needs to pay hundreds of billions of euros compensations to gas companies around Europe. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Elerond said:

Russia has started to use high velocity anti ship missiles because Ukraine's air defense can't intercept them because their anti air missiles don't have enough speed to hit one, even though they aren't accurate against land targets. And as stock of Russian high speed cruise missiles get thinner and Ukraine does not have air force or missiles which Russia needs high speed air defense missiles to defend against it would not be surprise if they have decided to use those missiles to bombard Ukraine as even though they are less accurate they still be more effective than lower speed missiles as Ukraine is not able to shoot them down 

Russia really doesn't seem to be running short of cruise missiles, or at least no shorter than they were meant to be after one week. They just fired off ~100 supposedly after all.

Kh-22 (the anti ship missiles) is nowhere near like for like with S3/400. It's got more than twice as much explosive as a cruise missile, literally literally 1t of HE. They've got a lot of built in margin of error for accuracy from that. The only similarity is their relevance to their original role; a Kh-22 is defunct as an anti ship missile and the short range S-300 missiles are- for Russia- defunct as SAMs so can be used at basically zero cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...