Medium and Large Shield Proficiency Modal

[Dogma18]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but I can't find any answers.

So the description for the medium and large shields reads:

Use your shield to attempt to block incoming weapon attacks, completely resisting the attack (if successful) at the cost of Recovery Time.

Taking careful position behind the large shield significantly reduces incoming ranged weapon damage as well as damage from attacks that target reflex. While active you are unable to move.

The text that I bolded seems to me that only equippable weapons (swords/bows, etc.) apply and not natural things like claws/tusks/projectiles from bats.

But many other different threads regard fists and claws as weapons for purposes of passives and such.

So do the medium and large shields modals apply to all attacks from all races?

Thanks!

[Constentin Lévine]

1 hour ago, Dogma18 said:

The text that I bolded seems to me that only equippable weapons (swords/bows, etc.) apply and not natural things like claws/tusks/projectiles from bats.

Natural things are weapons (not sure about projectiles from bats, in vanilla game the fury spiritshift weapon is not considered as weapon, but claws and tusks are). 

[NotDumbEnough]

It is worth noting that animals even have a recovery time for swapping weapons. e.g. the brine bats in the first cave will enter recovery if they switch between melee and ranged.

[thelee]

5 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Natural things are weapons (not sure about projectiles from bats, in vanilla game the fury spiritshift weapon is not considered as weapon, but claws and tusks are). 

i would consider this more as an exception since fury spiritshift is so weird.

 

my working knowledge (based only on what i happen notice, not saying i looked this up in gamefiles or that this is definitive) is that beasts, spirits, primordials can't be resisted by medium shield modal. Wilders, vessels, and kith can be stopped but even then I don't believe something like dargul swipes will be affected. This is why I think one should consider fury spiritshift weird - I think internally it's treated as just replacing the player character with a spirit creature (originally it was an exact duplicate before they buffed it a bit), versus being more mechanically an "alternate" kith form like the other spiritshifts.

 

large shield applies to anything that's ranged (regardless of species). note that sometimes this can be a little ambiguous, since some enemies will use ranged attacks in melee range. Oozes, for example, I can never remember - they both have a clearly defined ranged attack, but when you're up close it also looks like they're using a ranged attack but it might be a different melee attack, I can never remember.

Edited August 21, 2022 by thelee

[Dogma18]

7 hours ago, thelee said:

i would consider this more as an exception since fury spiritshift is so weird.

 

my working knowledge (based only on what i happen notice, not saying i looked this up in gamefiles or that this is definitive) is that beasts, spirits, primordials can't be resisted by medium shield modal. Wilders, vessels, and kith can be stopped but even then I don't believe something like dargul swipes will be affected. This is why I think one should consider fury spiritshift weird - I think internally it's treated as just replacing the player character with a spirit creature (originally it was an exact duplicate before they buffed it a bit), versus being more mechanically an "alternate" kith form like the other spiritshifts.

 

large shield applies to anything that's ranged (regardless of species). note that sometimes this can be a little ambiguous, since some enemies will use ranged attacks in melee range. Oozes, for example, I can never remember - they both have a clearly defined ranged attack, but when you're up close it also looks like they're using a ranged attack but it might be a different melee attack, I can never remember.

Ok so medium shield modal applicable only for kith, vessels and wilder. While large shield modal can work on any species' range attacks.

Thanks! Btw, your guide is amazing! Super detailed and very helpful 

[Elric Galad]

Sounds weird honestly. I haven't spotted yet a filter that applies to weapon attacks but not natural weapons. If it exists there are a bunch of effects that could get weird properties when applying to beasts claws etc...Sounds weird honestly. I haven't spotted yet a filter that applies to weapon attacks but not natural weapons. If it exists there are a bunch of effects that could get weird properties when applying to beasts claws etc...

 

Edit : ok, Fury claws are a good example, and after quickly checking gamefiles, it seems a general rule that natural weapons miss the weapon tag. In my opinion they should be. 

Possible to mod that (it would be legit I think), although it would require scripting (help from @Noqn? I would require some training to do this myself) to pick the right attack. 

I think every attack coming from an item attack from the items.gamedatabundle would be a legit candidate to be treated as a weapon.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

I might have mistyped my "help" scream to @Noqn  in the latest post.

Basically I need a way to generate a new file with a script, and since I have never done that it is probably faster to ask for an example file.

I need a script that :

- parses items.gamedatabundle and gets all "AttackID" from Game.GameData.WeaponComponent

- look for the corresponding attack in attacks.gamedatabundle

- extract the $Type, Debugname, ID, Component AttackBaseComponent, etc... and the line "TreatAsWeapon" in order to set it to true

- do the same for all DLC files

 

This should do the trick of setting all natural pseudo-weapons to weapon type.

 

I can adjust the script myself, but I think others might have done similar stuff, so it would go faster to start from this basis  

[Noqn]

Here's a file with all weapon attacks' TreatAsWeapon set to true (that weren't already) -> attacks.gamedatabundle

I've been developing some more sophisticated automation/editing tools which I'd like to share in the near future, as soon as they've reached a level of polish I'm not ashamed of...

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Noqn said:

Here's a file with all weapon attacks' TreatAsWeapon set to true (that weren't already) -> attacks.gamedatabundle

I've been developing some more sophisticated automation/editing tools which I'd like to share in the near future, as soon as they've reached a level of polish I'm not ashamed of...

Great ! This is exactly what I needed

But you've done it only for base game, don't you ? Do you think you could do it for DLC too ?

[Noqn]

This includes the DLC

Edited September 12, 2022 by Noqn

[Noqn]

Agh sorry, the Pipe "weapon"  didn't have an attack which my script didn't account for, everything past that got skipped. My bad. Here's the right file -> attacks.gamedatabundle

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Noqn

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Noqn said:

Agh sorry, the Pipe "weapon"  didn't have an attack which my script didn't account for, everything past that got skipped. My bad. Here's the right file -> attacks.gamedatabundle

 

Great !

Seems to work fine.

It will be included in next BPM version, with the usual credits.