Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 4

[InsaneCommander]

27 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

Yes.

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You can literally call her a silly little cat, which for some reason made me hysterically laugh when I found out

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Perhaps one of the greatest romance dialogues ever, calling your spider-catgirl gf a silly little cat.

[Gorth]

Rather than restarting the game at this point, I admitted defeat to my curiosity and did a second respec of my main character. Current level is 7 and is now 4 levels of Barbarian - Instinctual Warrior and 3 levels of Alchemist - Vivisectionist. I changed Regill previously to have a level of Inquisitor - Beasthunter (I don't remember the exact archetype, but the one that gave him an animal companion). I actually respecced him a second time, but that was to respec his animal companion. I had first given it finesse in something it didn't have, only noticing later its attacks are Talon. Camellia got changed too. Mostly to make her ranged (keeping her class for now). All Rapier related skills replaced with longbow equivalents.

Question for the panel, is composite longbow a longbow when picking feats or is its own class? I have a nice spare +2 composite longbow I would like to use without having to spend a lot of money at the vendor. I splurged the 30k+ gold for some fancy gimmick for Ember that allows her to cast more fire based spells that she couldn't cast before.

 

Edit: That guy in the medic tent with all the scrolls and gadgets has some nice, but rather pricey stuff

[bugarup]

Is a longbow. Also, you are shaping up rather nicely for a Trickster path which incidentally goes well with eventual Legend. Also2, wait until that fancy gimmick lets her cast Hellfire rays. 

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, Gorth said:

 I actually respecced him a second time, but that was to respec his animal companion. I had first given it finesse in something it didn't have, only noticing later its attacks are Talon.

am not wanting to be that guy, but, you might consider one more respec if is the issue we anticipate. 

the velociraptor starts with superior dex as 'posed to strength. however, 'tween level ups and use of 'such stuff as animal growth or legendary proportions, for most o' the game strength is gonna be your best attribute for the little dino. weapon finesse, although am believing it is a recommended choice from owl cat, is not a particular good choice.

however, if you got the leopard, then is worth taking weapon finesse. 

and yeah, the claws v. talons thing is unnecessarily confusing. weapon focus: other natural weapons.

*shrug*

HA! Good Fun!

 

[uuuhhii]

multiple weapon seems to be the most important thing for animal companion

and high strength are always useful to most character

the carry weight system are very annoying

[InsaneCommander]

Drezen – Part 2

 

Spoiler

Found the Triceratops figurine and reached level 9. I finally gave Outflank to most of the party, something that must improve the battle capability a lot, especially for Sosiel, who is wearing an armor with outflank bonus.

Ember got a level of Crossblooded as @majestic suggested, gaining two bloodlines and the Fire Element Focus. As a bonus, she now also has 9 uses of Grease per day. Nenio is specialising in Spell Penetration and the Illusion school. I gave her the Heighten Metamagic to make her spells even more difficult to resist. She also has a quarterstaff with +1 DC.

My main character got a level of Oracle now that I found Bracers of Armor +4 and the CHA bonus becomes better than an armor. I hope there is a +10 Persuasion robe in this game, like in Kingmaker, since I finally found someone who could partially resist Dazzling Display: Balor Darrazand. He didn't last long anyway.

Nurah running away when the battle started was hilarious. I’m incapable of hating her despite everything she has done (including calling me a drunk).

I didn’t want to rest until finishing this area (doesn’t look realistic), but apparently the external area has been conquered and we are sieging the last fortress? So it would make sense to take a break now. Also, I ran out of grease...

 

[Gromnir]

35 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Drezen – Part 2

 

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Found the Triceratops figurine and reached level 9. I finally gave Outflank to most of the party, something that must improve the battle capability a lot, especially for Sosiel, who is wearing an armor with outflank bonus.

Ember got a level of Crossblooded as @majestic suggested, gaining two bloodlines and the Fire Element Focus. As a bonus, she now also has 9 uses of Grease per day. Nenio is specialising in Spell Penetration and the Illusion school. I gave her the Heighten Metamagic to make her spells even more difficult to resist. She also has a quarterstaff with +1 DC.

My main character got a level of Oracle now that I found Bracers of Armor +4 and the CHA bonus becomes better than an armor. I hope there is a +10 Persuasion robe in this game, like in Kingmaker, since I finally found someone who could partially resist Dazzling Display: Balor Darrazand. He didn't last long anyway.

Nurah running away when the battle started was hilarious. I’m incapable of hating her despite everything she has done (including calling me a drunk).

I didn’t want to rest until finishing this area (doesn’t look realistic), but apparently the external area has been conquered and we are sieging the last fortress? So it would make sense to take a break now. Also, I ran out of grease...

 

the obstacle you will run into for successful intimidation checks is the same hurdle most any individual character or party build must face: bloat. owlcat balancing is near non-existent, so the method they utilized to keep the game challenging were to breakdown difficulty levels based on the predictably munchkiny nonsense possible with owlcat epic + pathfinder. 

for intimidation specific, is surprising few bosses immune to fear. intimidation also ignores sr. however, 'cause o' the endemic bloat, it takes a ridiculous investment to build a character capable o' being able to reliable intimidate bosses.

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Frightful+Aspect

eventual you get frightful aspect. is like a permanent dazzling display aura and is even better than straight-up intimidation 'cause is no skill check or saving throw. foes in the aoe o' effect capable o' being shaken are shaken, period.

so why would you devote effort to building a character who is able o' delivering shaken through dazzling display? most players would not make such an investment. however, am gonna suggest the answer is as simple as two words: vavakia vanguard. is only a couple o' 'em in the base game and they are tougher than most bosses. the most annoying aspect o' these foes is their fear aura which were delivered via intimidation as 'posed to will save and as such it were near impossible to resist the effect. 

a player character or a couple companions may achieve same results as the vavakia vanguard. take one level o' thug results in the player's intimidation checks being transformed from shaken to fear. thug fear is an amazingly powerful ability and is perpetual undervalued, but 'cause o' bloat o' bosses, you need indulge near every skill, strength and charisma boosting option available if you wanna be able to fear lock bosses. 

chances are dazzling display, as soon as you acquire frightful aspect (which is admitted late in the game) feels like wasted feats. however, give one level o' thug to sosiel and build him with single-minded dedication to boosting intimidation, and you will be able to reliable fear lock all but the couple fear immune bosses.

...

alternatively, play trickster.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[InsaneCommander]

I think it is ok if bosses resist intimidation. Dazzling Display is still a great help in every battle, except for enemies with immunity. I regret not taking the Mythic improvement to have the option to turn it into a quicker action, even though it looked bad because of the penalties. Instead, I picked Mythic Enchantment School Focus and I don't use those spells that often.

What happens if I respect my character, can I choose Mythic Feats and Abilities again?

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, InsaneCommander said:

 

What happens if I respect my character, can I choose Mythic Feats and Abilities again?

previous to the new patch, we would say, "yes."  however, one thing the wotr large patches break with some frequency is respec, so is worth doing a search.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[majestic]

Dazzling Display is a prerequisite of Shatter Defenses. As long as you take that, it'll not be a wasted feat even in the light of Frightful Aspect.

edit:

@InsaneCommander if you give Ember the Red Salamander ring, she will have two different spell levels of Hellfire Ray, which you can separately bolster. If you do that and then later pick Favorite Metamagic: Bolster, you can add some more of them to her spell levels. Because even if all newly created Bolstered spells are now one level lower than before, the old ones stay in the book.

She can cast LOTS of these things. At insane damage.

Edited September 2, 2022 by majestic

[InsaneCommander]

14 minutes ago, majestic said:

Dazzling Display is a prerequisite of Shatter Defenses. As long as you take that, it'll not be a wasted feat even in the light of Frightful Aspect.

edit:

@InsaneCommander if you give Ember the Red Salamander ring, she will have two different spell levels of Hellfire Ray, which you can separately bolster. If you do that and then later pick Favorite Metamagic: Bolster, you can add some more of them to her spell levels. Because even if all newly created Bolstered spells are now one level lower than before, the old ones stay in the book.

She can cast LOTS of these things. At insane damage.

[uuuhhii]

bolster have some weird friendly fire problem

arcane trickster for ember might be better

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Dazzling Display is a prerequisite of Shatter Defenses. As long as you take that, it'll not be a wasted feat even in the light of Frightful Aspect.

 

agree. shattered defense is one o' those combat feats we like for every combatant to have, but dazzling display itself becomes kinda useless and the mythic shortening o' dazzling display becomes nigh meaningless 'cause o' the inevitability o' frightful aspect which is gonna be active w/o a combat action required to trigger... unless you go the next step and build a thug intimidator. 

am admitted having an outlook the opposite o' @InsaneCommander'cause for us, our entire party build philosophy is boss fight dependent. is hundreds and perhaps thousands o' viable approaches to rollstomping mobs, but is the bosses which requires the stoopid investiture o' strategies to overcome dc, ac or sr thresholds which represents the kinda chokepoints for useful builds, particularly as difficulty increases. is disappointing, but as game difficulty increases, the more likely @majestic's party is gonna have similarities to Gromnir's, particular if am using same epic path for a main character.

as an aside, inquisitors and dirge bards make for over-the-top intimidator main characters. we keep telling self how one o' these days am gonna do a full dirge bard run, but the problem for us is the overlap of bards with skald and as 'tween having a bard or a skald in our party, am far more likely to choose skald. when building a skald it is difficult to not do a full 20 levels 'cause o' one o' the better capstone abilities in wotr is the skald's. so, every time we initial consider a dirge bard intimidator, we end up thinking how much more useful is a skald and so maybe a legend skald... which is decided not a dirge bard. annoying.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

apologies for double post, but for @Gorth in particular, we previous posted recommendations on building a raptor animal companion which is gonna be equal applicable to a not-celestial variety

IF you go the azata route, then you may possible skip a couple o' the teamwork feats mentioned 'cause your main character will get 'em free and then apply to all party members, including animal companions. we recommend take outflank for virtual all party members regardless o' epic path 'cause you do not wanna delay outflank as is functional most useful at lower levels-- you want to have outflank before you could acquire through lifebonding friendship, but am recognizing such might not be the best feat economy. 

two more functional free feats makes the recent mentioned dazzling display + shattered defenses a viable addition. 'course you are unlikely to be using dazzling display for the raptor, but shattered defenses rendering foes flat-footed is tough to ignore. 

also, daredevil is a better critter archetype than aggressor if you want more tanky.

...

more unsolicited recommendations. feel free to ignore or modify.

HA! Good Fun!

ps even w/o celestial, is worth at least considering umd for a raptor. the benefits o' being able to cast personal protection spells should not be undervalued. need only equip a charisma boosting headpiece for a moment to likely attain necessary umd numbers to add stuff such as winds of vengeance, frightful aspect, icey/fiery body, sacred nimbus, divine power, lead blades, foresight, transformation, aspect of the wolf, etc.

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

ps even w/o celestial, is worth at least considering umd for a raptor. the benefits o' being able to cast personal protection spells should not be undervalued. need only equip a charisma boosting headpiece for a moment to likely attain necessary umd numbers to add stuff such as winds of vengeance, frightful aspect, icey/fiery body, sacred nimbus, divine power, lead blades, foresight, transformation, aspect of the wolf, etc.

I did think it a bit funny, that I could equip Seelahs horse with potions. Including acid and fire for throwing at enemies. I just keep forgetting it though, because it's so un-intuitive. I'll take note of the outflanked ability. Did invest in dazzling display for a  few characters (my main and Regill for now Iirc, will check the rest as I get to respec them). But I'll make a note of outflanked being a preferred feat, when leveling up to 8

Edit: I suspect Lann and Sosiel are up next for a visit to the camp trainer. It took me a bit to figure out that the raptors start as lizardlings and you can't use them as mounts at lower levels. It's still small, because it's only level 6 where the rest of the party is level 7 (and 6 is where it "grows up" to become medium and rideable for Regill)

[Gromnir]

we rare give lann anything other than a raptor animal companion, but that is in part 'cause we don't care 'bout mounted combat for lann. in our opinion, there is too many feats required for lann to be a snapshot archer, so we keep him at ranged distances and embiggen him as much as possible. as a zenn archer using wisdom for ab, the dex penalties for a few enlargement spells don't handicap him in a meaningful way, so we don't need a mountable animal companion in the mongrel's case. raptor is a particularly good choice for hunter's divine hunter archetype, but leopard is also a good choice. leopard is also nice 'cause if you provide it with the mobility skill, and you should, your party is unlikely to fail mobility skill checks... though dialogue skill checks has previous ignored animal companions.

with the new patch, am serious contemplating choosing elk instead o' dog/wolf for characters such as sosiel and seelah. unless you wanna sacrifice a level into sorc (sylvan,) oracle (nature mystery,) sacred huntsmaster or the like, seelah gets the horse as a paladin, which is meh for much o' the game and doesn't benefit from trips, but it has a unique model which allows it to be enlarged with legendary proportions so that an embiggen'd seelah may ride her pony into battle. that said, trip is an extreme powerful attribute for an animal companion and if animal companions ever may reliable take the tandem trip teamwork feat, a party full o' trip capable critters is devastating.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

Made it to a place called Lost Chapel. My party slightly smaller due to plot stuff atm. Before that, I went to visit one hell of a hard hitting guy (pun semi intended). Called something along the lines of Pain Connoisseur (I don't remember his first name, we never really got formally introduced). Need a couple of tries to defeat the guy. No amount of defensive spells seemed to prevent him from killing one companion per round, unless running away very fast (and then he uses dimensional portal to catch up). He ignores grease etc. too. But... in the end, then winner of the day were the level 0 and 1 spells

I noticed his spell resistance would shrug off anything my party could throw at him otherwise, so I just piled acid touch and acid arrow on him (ignores spell resistance). He downed all 6 party members and started doing unspeakable things with the corpses or some such, when the damage over time from the acid eventually did him and my otherwise defeated party started slowly getting back on their feet (because normal mode and its default settings allows them get up rather than bleed out or some such). Back to camp and rest, but I did get a very nice chainmail of comraderie (sp?) out of it

 

edit: the game switched from turn based to real time when my last party member entered deaths door, so things happened very fast. I only know how he died from the combat log. Not the most elegant of victories, but I'll take it anyway

[majestic]

All this talking made me go back to the Unfair game I parked in Enigma. Two observations: Enigma is still from the arse, and rogue cultists attacking for 300+ damage are too. Concealment, super high armor class, nothing of that matters in case the enemy lands a lucky crit. *rolls eyes*

[Sarex]

15 minutes ago, majestic said:

All this talking made me go back to the Unfair game I parked in Enigma. Two observations: Enigma is still from the arse, and rogue cultists attacking for 300+ damage are too. Concealment, super high armor class, nothing of that matters in case the enemy lands a lucky crit. *rolls eyes*

Get gud!

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

All this talking made me go back to the Unfair game I parked in Enigma. Two observations: Enigma is still from the arse, and rogue cultists attacking for 300+ damage are too. Concealment, super high armor class, nothing of that matters in case the enemy lands a lucky crit. *rolls eyes*

intimidator sosiel + selective siroccos put a serious cramp in the rogue cultist's style. have intimidator sosiel spam thug-enhanced dazzling displays and since you no doubt already know exact where the cultists are having had to suffer enigma previous, is simple a matter o' how much boredom you are willing to endure to clear a room o' the cultists as when they run away from sosiel. the cultists may avoid the sirocco or similar spell as they run in terror, but they eventual find their way back and are likely prone'd by the spell but most assured affeared... 'cause intimidation actual scales very nice on unfair.

admitted, we use a bit o' additional cheese and put an icey body velociraptor (umd makes so we may cast on the raptor) out front as kinda a staked goat to lure out the nogoodniks. the raptor, under the influence o' icey body, is immune to crits but if it were to die it is auto resurrected on raised from dead on rest. 

one o' the utility scrolls we always have a couple extras o' is icey body 'cause o' the immunity to stuns it provides. facing the mythic carnivorous crystal and the like becomes less frustrating with a few party members immune to the stun aoes.

...

'course if we have sosiel take one level o' crossblood sorc, then it means we need have another companion or our player character do the intimidation thing.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we will say unfair is a punishing slog, which is why we have never done a complete unfair run and am expecting we never complete such a game. have fought most bosses unfair... admitted not the foes only available to demon or trickster, and we has completed a number o' the more annoying encounters on unfair, but an entire game? 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

Drezen – Part 3

 

Spoiler

Doesn’t Arueshalae eat? She is not getting the food bonus. She is better at trickery, but without the food bonus my character ends up with a higher value.

I found a letter for Galfrey detailing what happened when Drezen fell. I wonder if I can discuss it with her. The part about Sarenrae’s fountain was particularly hot, in a literal sense. You would expect the goddess would have done something about it.

Also found Yaniel in the dungeon. 70 years of torture. Let me guess, she has been turned? Even Joran Vhane decided to join the enemy. At least he gave me the scabbard before attacking me. Sosiel’s comment makes me hope his brother is not working for the demons too, because Sosiel seemed to sympathise with Joran and consider making the same decision to stand by his brother's side.

The battle against Theruk Nul was funny. On my first try his minions dominated Sosiel and he appeared out of nowhere taking me by surprise. But when I tried again, I sent some skeletons to distract him while I dealt with the minions and when I opened the wall the they rushed to help him, leaving my party completely ignored and then they didn’t last long.

 

[uuuhhii]

40 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Drezen – Part 3

 

  Hide contents

Doesn’t Arueshalae eat? She is not getting the food bonus. She is better at trickery, but without the food bonus my character ends up with a higher value.

I found a letter for Galfrey detailing what happened when Drezen fell. I wonder if I can discuss it with her. The part about Sarenrae’s fountain was particularly hot, in a literal sense. You would expect the goddess would have done something about it.

Also found Yaniel in the dungeon. 70 years of torture. Let me guess, she has been turned? Even Joran Vhane decided to join the enemy. At least he gave me the scabbard before attacking me. Sosiel’s comment makes me hope his brother is not working for the demons too, because Sosiel seemed to sympathise with Joran and consider making the same decision to stand by his brother's side.

The battle against Theruk Nul was funny. On my first try his minions dominated Sosiel and he appeared out of nowhere taking me by surprise. But when I tried again, I sent some skeletons to distract him while I dealt with the minions and when I opened the wall the they rushed to help him, leaving my party completely ignored and then they didn’t last long.

 

a lot of stuff in golarion with gods name slap on them actually have nothing to do with them

full god is unlikely to notice relic of their follower corrupted or misused

[Gromnir]

seeming godly indifference to demon and cultist perversions in the areas surrounding the worldwound incursion is addressed at one point in the game. could miss if you race-click through stuff, but is near start o' act v, and is an impossible dialogue to miss.

HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

intimidator sosiel + selective siroccos put a serious cramp in the rogue cultist's style. have intimidator sosiel spam thug-enhanced dazzling displays and since you no doubt already know exact where the cultists are having had to suffer enigma previous, is simple a matter o' how much boredom you are willing to endure to clear a room o' the cultists as when they run away from sosiel. the cultists may avoid the sirocco or similar spell as they run in terror, but they eventual find their way back and are likely prone'd by the spell but most assured affeared... 'cause intimidation actual scales very nice on unfair.

admitted, we use a bit o' additional cheese and put an icey body velociraptor (umd makes so we may cast on the raptor) out front as kinda a staked goat to lure out the nogoodniks. the raptor, under the influence o' icey body, is immune to crits but if it were to die it is auto resurrected on raised from dead on rest. 

one o' the utility scrolls we always have a couple extras o' is icey body 'cause o' the immunity to stuns it provides. facing the mythic carnivorous crystal and the like becomes less frustrating with a few party members immune to the stun aoes.

...

'course if we have sosiel take one level o' crossblood sorc, then it means we need have another companion or our player character do the intimidation thing.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we will say unfair is a punishing slog, which is why we have never done a complete unfair run and am expecting we never complete such a game. have fought most bosses unfair... admitted not the foes only available to demon or trickster, and we has completed a number o' the more annoying encounters on unfair, but an entire game? 

I'm running a Brown-Fur Transmuter, so I could just cast Icy Body on someone else, no need for scrolls. At this point in the game I usually just blast through enemies in RTwP mode, but one of the rogue packs got lucky like three times in a row, killing various party members and once my main character. It's kind of ridiculous, but that's game RNG for you. Yeah, casting Selective Sirocco solved the issue.

Generally things are a little wonky in the game, I guess that's from loading a savegame from April, from before a couple of patches. Nenio has a lot of Weirds thrown at her, and she should be immune - except when she suddenly isn't and instantly dies. Beats me. I just want this stupid puzzle pyramid to be over. I'm almost done now. Sigh.