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Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Part 2


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20 hours ago, Gromnir said:

leadership would appear to be the one stat am lacking insofar as the crusade is concerned

Leadership appears to be tied to defeating demon armies and taking strongholds on the world map. I just barely hit the prerequisite for level V after taking out every demon army available in act 3 (plus all the ones that pop up every few days)

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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2 hours ago, Achilles said:

Leadership appears to be tied to defeating demon armies and taking strongholds on the world map. I just barely hit the prerequisite for level V after taking out every demon army available in act 3 (plus all the ones that pop up every few days)

good to know. is much 'bout the current crusade system which is obscure. given the four day timer for morale loss w/o a battle victory and the thirty day timer for capture o' forts, we were being restrained in our efforts to send out armies and crush the opposition blitzkrieg style. our current main army is able to beat the snot out o' any and all comers on the chapter three map, but have been cautious 'cause o' the damnable timers.

do the rando demon army spawns count towards the four day timer? we assumed they did not, but am also aware we got zero to base such an assumption 'pon.

am also concerned numerous chapter three companion quests is not advancing as anticipated and other than ivory sanctum, we got few map points which remain un explored. 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

good to know. is much 'bout the current crusade system which is obscure. given the four day timer for morale loss w/o a battle victory and the thirty day timer for capture o' forts, we were being restrained in our efforts to send out armies and crush the opposition blitzkrieg style. our current main army is able to beat the snot out o' any and all comers on the chapter three map, but have been cautious 'cause o' the damnable timers.

do the rando demon army spawns count towards the four day timer? we assumed they did not, but am also aware we got zero to base such an assumption 'pon.

am also concerned numerous chapter three companion quests is not advancing as anticipated and other than ivory sanctum, we got few map points which remain un explored. 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Leadership = crusade adventures against demon armies
  • Logistics = buildings in captured forts/Drezen (need to build everywhere, all the time to max out in Act 3)
  • Diplomacy = ??? (this is either bugged, broken, or tied to something ridiculous like XP because I always had a ton more of this than I needed)
  • Military = Not 100% sure on this one either, but I was able to max it out without trying

As for the timers, each defeated fort or army adds to the timer, so the only way you'd ever be at risk is if you held off on fighting or ignored the mechanic altogether. I went after available units very aggressively and kept all three banners in the green pretty much the entirety of acts 2 and 3. One probably does need to be careful taking forts in Act 2 since they won't get access to more until Act 3, but after Drezen it felt like a non issue.

All this to say the banner/timer mechanic exists to keep people from ignoring the crusade mechanic, not discourage them from participating. In fact, I had to ask Galfrey to cool her heels in my war room so that I could finish off a handful of stragglers before heading to the Fane.

Regarding your question, so far as I could tell, the random armies do count toward the timer, but more importantly they count toward the leadership metric :)

As for companion quests, it felt like a couple of them came a bit later than I remember in the beta, but all of them came

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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had a yellow banner in act two 'cause road to drezen literal only counted the direct road to drezen battles. side battles and exploration had us in the yellow more than once.

in act three we had a bug upgrading a bastion to fortress. literal had to replay many hours 'cause we couldn't figure out what were the issue, but am suspecting that the game mistaken checks to see if you have minimum resources for the upgrade not only when you initial choose to upgrade but also when the days needed for the upgrade elapse. had a permanent exclamation mark for crusade and we kinda tracked down to the fortress upgrade never having been implemented, which also functional locked up our logistics rank.

am also suspecting am never gonna be able to upgrade at least three relics. was informed a few relics has a leadership requirement in addition to stated diplomacy, but we got leadership four, diplomacy five and am nevertheless unable to upgrade soulshear, chillroar hide and tusks and the crest of the fallen knight. not a big deal save would be a nice addition for sosiel to have an upgraded soulshear.

crusade has become a headache but am also concerned by how deep am into chapter three w/o a few companion quests initiating. 

we considered the release to be nothing more than another beta stage, so is not a shock to us am facing issues. am given to understand the bugs multiply as one adds chapters, which also is confirming our expectations. am disappointed by a few bugs which has been 'round since the initial beta, including skald issues, but am not able to even pretend surprise the game is an unfinished product.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

had a yellow banner in act two 'cause road to drezen literal only counted the direct road to drezen battles. side battles and exploration had us in the yellow more than once.

in act three we had a bug upgrading a bastion to fortress. literal had to replay many hours 'cause we couldn't figure out what were the issue, but am suspecting that the game mistaken checks to see if you have minimum resources for the upgrade not only when you initial choose to upgrade but also when the days needed for the upgrade elapse. had a permanent exclamation mark for crusade and we kinda tracked down to the fortress upgrade never having been implemented, which also functional locked up our logistics rank.

am also suspecting am never gonna be able to upgrade at least three relics. was informed a few relics has a leadership requirement in addition to stated diplomacy, but we got leadership four, diplomacy five and am nevertheless unable to upgrade soulshear, chillroar hide and tusks and the crest of the fallen knight. not a big deal save would be a nice addition for sosiel to have an upgraded soulshear.

crusade has become a headache but am also concerned by how deep am into chapter three w/o a few companion quests initiating. 

we considered the release to be nothing more than another beta stage, so is not a shock to us am facing issues. am given to understand the bugs multiply as one adds chapters, which also is confirming our expectations. am disappointed by a few bugs which has been 'round since the initial beta, including skald issues, but am not able to even pretend surprise the game is an unfinished product.

HA! Good Fun!

Sorry to hear you're running into so many issue. Not sure which of us is the exception, but crusade management was pretty pain free for me. Upgraded soulshear first and wasn't sure why the crusade quest didn't upgrade. Apparently there's a hidden requirement that the first artifact you find (crest of the fallen knight) is the one that you have to upgrade in order to satisfy the quest.

Going into act IV with *many* relics not upgraded simply because I didn't have enough time to get them all. Will have to pay closer attention next time, but I think there were a couple of items that may have been stuck in upgrade loops (sent to artisans multiple times and got the quest again rather than the actual item). More than once upgrade options had descriptions missing so you have to guess at what you're going to get.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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First real encounter with performance issues; frame rate took a severe nosedive in the final area of act 3. Used nvidia control panel to cap frames at 30 and seems to have resolved things. Might try slowly bumping that number up until I find out precisely where things go off the rails.

Rumor has it there's more of this in act 4 as well :(

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Found a funny bug - after rescpeccing the character appeared in his deity list and as an evil god no less. Too bad the game would not allow me to pick myself. I wonder, if I worshiped the evil me and then took all the good, nice choices all the time, would the character just poof out of existence? 🤔 

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Starting to think they're going to release Items That Function as Described as a DLC

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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30 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Given the amount of bug-inspired talk on this thread, I'm a bit surprised the official WotR forums aren't full of it. Perhaps quite a lot of people are playing happily, despite everything?

Probably knew what to expect, given Kingmaker.

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The story is so bad I actually laughed a couple of times. Twists and turns are stupid and predictable, I have no idea why there are so many people on Reddit praising WOTR's plot and writing. And the writing is poor too, this game doesn't know how to handle more mature adult themes so it just throws gore and sex at you. Yawn.

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3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Given the amount of bug-inspired talk on this thread, I'm a bit surprised the official WotR forums aren't full of it. Perhaps quite a lot of people are playing happily, despite everything?

Yup. This is my understanding as well from regularly browsing the Owlcat forum. The people who seem to be hyper-bothered by the bugs are actually few, but they're super-vocal and will go out of their way to tell other people how disappointed/angry/offended they are with Owlcat and the game. The vast majority of people playing the game are very much liking and enjoying it (despite annoying minor bugs).

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1 minute ago, kanisatha said:

Yup. This is my understanding as well from regularly browsing the Owlcat forum. The people who seem to be hyper-bothered by the bugs are actually few, but they're super-vocal and will go out of their way to tell other people how disappointed/angry/offended they are with Owlcat and the game. The vast majority of people playing the game are very much liking and enjoying it (despite annoying minor bugs).

Try the discord. Specifically, #bug-help

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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1 hour ago, bitchmartyr said:

The story is so bad I actually laughed a couple of times. Twists and turns are stupid and predictable, I have no idea why there are so many people on Reddit praising WOTR's plot and writing.

I think we can safely say that anyone who praises WOTR's writing simply doesn't know what they're talking about and doesn't understand what good writing is. The writing is so obviously poor that there's no argument about it. But, as there's such a dearth of games like this, I'm going to play it all the same, although not just yet. And I enjoyed P:K despite the fact that the writing was awful!

(Good and bad are not simply subjective terms. For example, Freddie Mercury was a good singer. No one has to like his music, or even his style, but the fact is that he was a good singer. Just try and sing one of his songs. Similarly, the writing in WOTR is bad. The technical faults in style, originality and even language are so obvious.)

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WotR writing is awesome, in the same way that Neil Breen's movies are. The evil dialogue choices being something like "[ATTACK] I don't like you. DIE! (EVIL)" is absolutely hilarious.

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"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

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I suppose if you've enjoyed the STALKER games or were able to see Fallout: New Vegas to the end near launch (or many BIS and early Obsidian games, for that matter) you develop a tolerance for bugs and instability.

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"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.”

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

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On 9/16/2021 at 9:45 AM, Gromnir said:

in act three we had a bug upgrading a bastion to fortress. literal had to replay many hours 'cause we couldn't figure out what were the issue, but am suspecting that the game mistaken checks to see if you have minimum resources for the upgrade not only when you initial choose to upgrade but also when the days needed for the upgrade elapse.

Looks like today's patch may help with your issue

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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with the crusade, 'cause the rules is hidden, am not even certain what is busted. we no longer get a prompt to upgrade forts to bastions. is this a bug or is there a max number o' bastions for logistics five? we got a fortress upgrade option and from the patch notes am now suspecting such were a bug. am also thinking that were the point we stopped getting fort-->bastion decrees.

our current run is likely borked in multiple different ways and am not actual expecting retroactive fixes. might need to reload a save from the start o' chapter three.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Look at me! I am not super late for the party for once! 😄 I enjoyed Pathfinder: Kingmaker quite a lot - but as I was late for the CRPG party in general, I missed out on the legendary bug launch of it. I even pre-purchased Wrath of the Righteous (WotR) as I like Owlcat as a studio.

Here's my small (wall of text...) take on WotR (with as little spoilers as possible!) primarily compared to PoE (1+2), but might include other titles as well for the sake of it. :] Here goes!

Small background: So before starting anyone who actually bothers reading should know just a little bit of my history to understand my perspective and priorities. I am still pretty new to CRPGs (started fall 2020) and I have been playing all of the big (and some small) titles since then. DoS2 was my first CRPG game, and PoE1 followed shortly after completion and PoE(1) has been my favorite game ever since. I play CRPGs the way most people watch series or read a book (with the small detail of being able to design the main character yourself), and hence my priorities goes as following: 1) A lot of role-playing options and great immersion. 2) The general story setting and main story arc. 3) Companions, and how well they function with the game. 4) Character freedom - I am very fond of the PnP-style where my character is assumed with as little background as possible to not snare my character design. Anything else - be it combat, the actual appearance of the game or voiced (or non-voiced) NPCs/companions/PCs - I can make do. Also, I like owls, a lot. :] Alright, let's go!

General Story Arc - I have never been fond of the story arcs that are driven by a chase of divinity - it just doesn't suit my most typical main character. This is one of the things that I did not appreciate about DoS2, and similarly - it is one of the things that I am not too fond of when it comes to WotR (granted that it can be mostly avoided with certain paths). As most PoE(1) fans could guess, this was one of the major points that I *ADORED* about PoE(1) - my character was not necessarily chasing after godly powers - the connection to divinity (that primarily came with PoE:D) is just the way the cookie crumbled when the PC wanted answers to their condition. ❤️ I still get goosebumps thinking about the PoE story.

Anyways - in general, I am kind of neutral with Owlcat's story arc writing in WotR. Similarly to in Kingmaker, I feel like the character that I have designed is an ill fit for the obviously very righteous path that they are pursuing (I felt the same way about "having to" my own Kingdom in Kingmaker), but that is kind of the point of the game so I'll just roll with it. RP will find a way! The WotR story has an INSANE lot of flavor driven primarily by your mythic path choices, and I guarantee that the different paths will feel VERY different, even those close in alignment.

Combat - I am not a RtwP player. Infact, PoE(1) is the only game where I've played with RtwP without struggling big time. Thus, when presented the option - I will more often than not prefer turn-based. Same goes for WotR - however, some fights are just a complete mess for a TB-player. This is however a minor setback as I am well aware of that the game is designed for RtwP, and as such I am just happy the TB option is available and reasonably clean. Anyways, regarding the combat scaling, Pathfinder (at least from Owlcats) is well known for being merciless at times and I have read a lot of complaints about how many encounters are too difficult. However, in general I'd say that even on "normal"/"standard" (I forgot the exact term that they use) difficulty, the battles are more than fair and you are always free to adjust the difficulty if it is necessary. If you play on core or above, then you're asking for a challenge - so don't be upset when you get one. :']

Builds - Just like Kingmaker, WotR has an insane amount of builds available. It feels similar to the PoE:Deadfire in how one can multi-class, but in WotR you can do so with even more freedom than PoE:D (for the better or worse). :]

Graphics - It is for sure an upgrade from Pathfinder Kingmaker when it comes to the actual game character designs, but you'll definitely recognize the style if you played Kingmaker. Loads of gorgeous portraits for both NPCs, companions and, of course, for player options (unless you wanna import your own :] ).

Time for my favorite subject!
Companions: Personality / Writing - It is no secret on any forum that I absolutely adore many (*cough* all *cough*) companions from PoE(1). They remain my favorites to this day! That said, I can appreciate good companion writing when I see it (well, in my opinion at least :] ). Many of the companions from WotR fill certain stereotypes, but imo they do so in a very good way. Even some of the evil companions are *mostly* bearable for a good aligned character, thanks to good writing and good character motivations. I'd imagine vice versa might be true as well. I personally feel like the romance options are a bit of a lackluster (for both genres, regardless of sexuality), so I'll be passing on the romance run - however, from what I've read the actual romances seem to be very well written, so if any of the romancable options fall into your (character's) taste, then do try it! I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised! 

And just as in KM, your interactions with your companions matter for their development. Without going into too much detail (and spoilers), I'll just put it out there that Ember (our elven child-minded witch) can respond very poorly if you continuously push her away from her character drive to help people.

Companions: Interactions - As expected from Owlcat, the companion banter is superb and there is A LOT of interesting dialogues that open up depending on which companion you bring when speaking to certain NPCs. This is similar to the companion commentary that I've been so fond of ever since PoE(1) and DA:O, so I am delighted to see more games doing more of this (Larian, please take notes , _ , )! Unfortunately, similar to Kingmaker (and both PoE games), WotR puts much more focus on quality rather than quantity when it comes to actual companion dialogues (between the player and the companion). The times when you get to properly interact with a companion (often accompanied with them approaching you regarding some matter) are very few and often far between, and that is especially painful when the interactions often are so well-written. :'[ Truly the very same problem that I had with PoE:D! However, the companion commentary is, also similarly to PoE(1) + PoE:D, very well written and occurs often. They will often have comments about the situation that you're in, and sometimes about the decisions you do - however these comments are (more often than not) not something that the PC can respond to, however it still adds sooo much to the companion's character and this was one of my favorite things about PoE(1)! In short: Companion banter, check. Companion commentary, double check. Companion dialogues, mmmh... Half-checked with a question-mark. It is also worth noting that companions often react to each others commentary. If one companion has a comment, then another companion might respond to that particular comment. :]

And that is it, folks! At least for tonight's wall of text. :'] In short, I'd say that Pathfinder WotR definitely is worth playing, at least for most PoE fans! I think Owlcat and Obsidian Entertainment have the same priorities in many important factors regarding cRPGs - and that makes me very happy! Of course, PoE remains my favorite by far and the series exceed both Pathfinder games in most ways - but Owlcat did, imo, a pretty good job with WotR. 😄 Fair warning though, if you're afraid of bugs (huehuehue), then I'd suggest waiting a little bit just in case. Owlcats have been very quick with the bug fixing so you probably won't have to wait for long though! 😄 


 

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