Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Part 2

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

Might want to hold off on that. Currently no button to execute Sentence/Greater Sentence

our quandary is both azata and aeon is kinda borked.  the azata sooperpowers which we would choose is not working as designed (life-bonding friendship, beneficial magic) and the two mythic spells which set azata apart is impotent, so...

aivu is kinda nifty, but not enough if everything else am looking at is broken.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Agiel]

As my PC is a Knife Master Rogue and on my deepest playthrough Woljif has (presumably) taken a temporary leave of absence just as he was about to be able to cast 3rd level spells Nenio has been my sole source of Fireballs and Haste so she's been my party slot tax whether I liked it or not, though it helps that she's been extraordinarily useful slinging Phantasmal Killers around. I presume some of you have instead opted to hire a mercenary Arcane caster from Hilor in her stead.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Agiel

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Agiel said:

As my PC is a Knife Master Rogue and on my deepest playthrough Woljif has (presumably) taken a temporary leave of absence just as he was about to be able to cast 3rd level spells Nenio has been my sole source of Fireballs and Haste so she's been my party slot tax whether I liked it or not, though it helps that she's been extraordinarily useful slinging Phantasmal Killers around. I presume some of you have instead opted to hire a mercenary Arcane caster from Hilor in her stead.

after our first beta run, when woljif abandoned us, we never forgave him. later we hugged it out and we told him, "it's all good," but deep down we never got over the betrayal. not spellcasting but trickery were the issue-- only camellia had requisite trickery. his absence forced camellia 'pon us for lost chapel. *shudder* henceforth, woljif has always been a reserve contributor. 

that said, am gonna observe by midway through the game nenio were the most dependable boss battle damage dealer for our angel run other than our inquisitor archer. we went vivisectionist/arcane trickster/scroll savant 1/4/15. hardly an optimal build. even so, is no shortage o' gear which provides touch attack bonuses, so nenio makes for a respectable blaster. is also a few items which amplify sonic damage, including a crusade relic in act three which has ear-piercing scream do 1/2 caster level d6 damage. 

the arcane trickster route for nenio also made so we had dependable trickery skills, so we didn't need woljiff or camellia for such, and we would rather gargle broken glass than keep camellia 'round.

lose woljif hurt us the first time, but only the first time. nenio made it ez to forget 'bout woljif... though am suspecting her companion quest is gonna make infamous internet lists for years to come. almost makes us wonder if those russian guys who always seems to make the game puzzle solving youtube sites is friends with owlcat developers. owlcat creates enigma just to boost viewer traffic for a few o' their pals? am at a loss to think o' a good reason for adding such a tedious and repetitive game area, but to make it increasing vital and important is genuine baffling. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Achilles]

Secret ending was...sufficient. Felt cleaner than the first one I got, so will probably be the head-canon route for future replays.

Curious about the Legend path, so playing around with potential builds for that. Was initially thinking something involving hellknight, but am now leaning toward Aldori Swordlord/Duelist

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

but to make it increasing vital and important is genuine baffling. 

I suspect they need to justify all the time they spent on it. Again, really seems like they're more interested in forcing us to see what they want to show us rather than making a game that feels like it's "ours"

Edited October 11, 2021 by Achilles

[Gromnir]

50 minutes ago, Achilles said:

 

I suspect they need to justify all the time they spent on it. Again, really seems like they're more interested in forcing us to see what they want to show us rather than making a game that feels like it's "ours"

am not begrudging owlcat that kinda motivation pre release. try and find ways to motivate players to experience what the developers spent so much effort creating? sure. reasonable. pre release, owlcat drones no doubt assumed that if you played enigma you would enjoy it, 'cause is unlikely owlcat meant for it to be a soul-numbing slog designed to rob you o' the will to play wotr for another minute much less endure the hours o' repetitive punishment needed to complete enigma. however, post release efforts to make unpalatable content more essential is... petty. is not as if there is a bunch o' threads at owlcat where folks dedicate sonnets to the genius o' enigma. contrary. 

you didn't like enigma, well guess what? you shoulda' kept your gob shut 'cause now it is essential material and there will be a real in-game cost to avoiding its completion. suckers.

doesn't make sense to us. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Gromnir

[Achilles]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

doesn't make sense to us. 

The voice suggesting that maybe I not back whatever they do next keeps getting louder

[uuuhhii]

6 hours ago, Agiel said:

As my PC is a Knife Master Rogue and on my deepest playthrough Woljif has (presumably) taken a temporary leave of absence just as he was about to be able to cast 3rd level spells Nenio has been my sole source of Fireballs and Haste so she's been my party slot tax whether I liked it or not, though it helps that she's been extraordinarily useful slinging Phantasmal Killers around. I presume some of you have instead opted to hire a mercenary Arcane caster from Hilor in her stead.

nenio is the best

how any player doesn't want to use nenio are beyond reason

[uuuhhii]

2 hours ago, Achilles said:

Secret ending was...sufficient. Felt cleaner than the first one I got, so will probably be the head-canon route for future replays.

Curious about the Legend path, so playing around with potential builds for that. Was initially thinking something involving hellknight, but am now leaning toward Aldori Swordlord/Duelist

I suspect they need to justify all the time they spent on it. Again, really seems like they're more interested in forcing us to see what they want to show us rather than making a game that feels like it's "ours"

ending of wotr are pretty awful

areelu the most awful and boring part

baphomet are so much more interesting than any other villain in the game

would make a great final boss

[Agiel]

As soon as I'm done with this fort blocking the path I'm on my way into the Heart of Mystery, but about now my patience has already been tested by all the crappy Myst puzzles up to this point and from what I've read the worst is still yet to come. Even trying to replicate the solutions from guides online is a chore since even on my 1440p monitor it takes a bit of squinting to make out the correct tiles.

These kinds of puzzles have always been my least favourite parts of cRPGs and it's maddening that Owlcat has decided to quadruple down on this aspect from Kingmaker (Is it any wonder that the second most popular guide for Kingmaker on the Steam Community Hub is <<Statue puzzle solution during prologue>>?). Unfortunate, really, since there really are flashes of brilliant encounter design to be found in their games once you get past the uneven difficulty curves. In WotR the "Sword of Valor" ambush was a highlight, and in Kingmaker I can honestly say Vordakai's Tomb is up there with the best dungeons of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale with varied and challenging encounters that are eminently beatable with the right tools even with a mediocrely-built party.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Agiel

[bugarup]

I'll most likely back their next project again, because hey, party-based isometric cRPG warts and all, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for "Skip the Enigma" mod because I don't think I want to experience it even once, given my almost physical disgust with House at the end of wits. I would've loved to be the fly on the wall in the room those dungeons were designed though. "Hey guys, seems that everybody loathed the House, how could we top it by making something even worse?"  

[uuuhhii]

5 hours ago, bugarup said:

I'll most likely back their next project again, because hey, party-based isometric cRPG warts and all, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for "Skip the Enigma" mod because I don't think I want to experience it even once, given my almost physical disgust with House at the end of wits. I would've loved to be the fly on the wall in the room those dungeons were designed though. "Hey guys, seems that everybody loathed the House, how could we top it by making something even worse?"  

complete house multiple times with a few hours

couldn't get past the first puzzle in enigma

who did they hired to come up with all this awful puzzle in wotr

[Achilles]

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

that said, am gonna observe by midway through the game nenio were the most dependable boss battle damage dealer

Curious about this. I've never recruited her, so I don't know anything about her build. What's the secret sauce?

[kanisatha]

Here's what I posted recently in the WotR KS forum, and an Owlcat dev's reply. I'm interpreting that positively and am cautiously optimistic about the direction of their next game.

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Kani   The game is fantastic, Owlcat! The best D&D-like game out there. But I do want to take this opportunity here to make a suggestion for your next game. I know many people here and on the Owlcat forum (and presumably the discord channel) are already speculating about the next module to be used. I would love for you guys to NOT use an existing module for your next game. Using existing modules is nice for a studio just starting out as it gives you such a huge leg up on development, but it also limits and constrains you a lot. You now have two successful games under your belt. Time to fly! Time to go hire a bunch of quality writers and create and write your own new game. I hope you guys will consider this. 10/08/202111:12 am Owlcat Games Creator Thank you for the trust and support! We hope you won't be dissappointed by our next project :) 10/12/20217:26 am

[Achilles]

I'll be very surprised if the next owlcat project isn't Pathfinder 2e

[uuuhhii]

a lot of player are guessing runelord or tyrant grasp

both would require a lot of work on owlcat side

hope for a more urban focused pick

maybe council of thieves or war for the wrown

agent of edgewatch with pathfinder 2e would be best

but unlikely for owlcat to make

[ShadySands]

Starfinder was a guess from some time ago

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think Starfinder is most likely, followed by another PF1e game, and then a PF2e game being a dark horse.

If it's Starfinder I'm worried about starship combat, if it's 1e again I hope they get all the classes in WotR sorted out first and maybe not do mythic stuff again, if it's 2e I hope it's Strength of Thousands or Agents of Edgewatch. In all cases I want guns.

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Here's what I posted recently in the WotR KS forum, and an Owlcat dev's reply. I'm interpreting that positively and am cautiously optimistic about the direction of their next game.

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Kani   The game is fantastic, Owlcat! The best D&D-like game out there. But I do want to take this opportunity here to make a suggestion for your next game. I know many people here and on the Owlcat forum (and presumably the discord channel) are already speculating about the next module to be used. I would love for you guys to NOT use an existing module for your next game. Using existing modules is nice for a studio just starting out as it gives you such a huge leg up on development, but it also limits and constrains you a lot. You now have two successful games under your belt. Time to fly! Time to go hire a bunch of quality writers and create and write your own new game. I hope you guys will consider this. 10/08/202111:12 am Owlcat Games Creator Thank you for the trust and support! We hope you won't be dissappointed by our next project :) 10/12/20217:26 am

I am disappointed in their spelling.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Achilles said:

Curious about this. I've never recruited her, so I don't know anything about her build. What's the secret sauce?

touch ac and rays is the way we went.

she has decent dex, which may be enhanced considerable, and there is a plethora o' bonus to touch attack items, resulting in her rays hitting... period. ascendant element fire is a good idea, and maybe consider taking electricity or cold late, but cold makes sense only if you got an azata run going and are able to use the waterfall spell. we coulda' done more to boost her sneak attack damage, but the one level o' vivisectionist and four levels o' arcane trickster we gave her were sufficient. mythic arsenal stuff allows you to double up the benefits from feats and such which boost a spell school and apply those benefits to another spell school, so enhance illusions for the cc and get benefits to evocation for blasting. make sure to get heighten meta magic so you are able to flood your spell slots with  scorching rays (early) and hellfire rays, and as we noted, there is items which boost sonic damage and sonic is one o' the energy types least likely to be resisted. 

by the time you are in chapter four you are having no shortage o' metamagic rods. don't skimp on those even if they is pricey. with the ultimate finnean quest there is a functional Rod of God you will acquire, but that is kinda late game and shouldn't be part o' your build calculus.

'course is possible to do similar with ember, but nenio has access to haste, so...

is mostly a function o' casters being casters in pathfinder. gets tougher for melee and ranged combatants to hit boss level characters as you level, but casters always has a way to heap on damage via touch attacks or spells which do at least half damage even on a save. 

the following is not directed at achilles. for people interpreting a diplomatic non-response from owlcat so it matches their expectations...

warning: a smidge sweary

am s'posing owlcat coulda' told you straight up that you're _______. but hey, maybe they do something complete different than the offerings which has been successful.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 12, 2021 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

12 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I think Starfinder is most likely, followed by another PF1e game, and then a PF2e game being a dark horse.

If it's Starfinder I'm worried about starship combat, if it's 1e again I hope they get all the classes in WotR sorted out first and maybe not do mythic stuff again, if it's 2e I hope it's Strength of Thousands or Agents of Edgewatch. In all cases I want guns.

after kingmaker and wotr

a starship combat system seems doomed to fail

maybe a 2e game can use abomination vault as dlc

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

33 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

after kingmaker and wotr

a starship combat system seems doomed to fail

maybe a 2e game can use abomination vault as dlc

Yeah, I think it could very well make Deadfire's ship combat look good. And given Kingmaker and WotR, it will be mandatory.

I think Abomination Vaults and Fists of the Ruby Phoenix are both half the length of the usual adventure paths, so I could see either being an expansion length dlc added to an adaptation. Maybe even both, who knows?

[Achilles]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

touch ac and rays is the way we went.

<snip>

'course is possible to do similar with ember, but nenio has access to haste, so...

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure if there was some aspect of her archetype I was missing or some item provided as part of her quest...

Appreciate the write-up

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I think Starfinder is most likely, followed by another PF1e game, and then a PF2e game being a dark horse.

I don't think Paizo is going to be super excited to license old **** when they recently came out with new ****. Seems that it would be counter to the idea that new **** is better than old ****. So, while it's not inconceivable that I'm wrong, I don't think it's "dark horse" at all

If it's not Pathfinder, then I'll probably pass for sure. They've had two games to iterate and have a good chance of making a third that it's quite the ****storm the last two have been. If they decide that now is the best time to try something completely different...well, I wish them luck.

[Gromnir]

mentioned this previous, but during one o' the beta walkthrough streams, yulia chernenko(sp?), an owlcat developer, responded to a query 'bout the possibility the owlcat folks would do a second edition adventure in the future. weren't any evasiveness-- no plans or even serious consideration o' doing a second edition adventure. obviously yulia is not the ultimate arbiter o' owlcat development decisions, but is likely she has some awareness o' what is being considered for their next release, the early design stages which has no doubt already begun.

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

I don't think Paizo is going to be super excited to license old **** when they recently came out with new ****. Seems that it would be counter to the idea that new **** is better than old ****. So, while it's not inconceivable that I'm wrong, I don't think it's "dark horse" at all

Well Pazio did license WotR after 2e was published so I think they're at least willing to license their 1e adventure paths. While I agree that they'd prefer some advertisement for their current product line, any attention probably helps when you're a distant second to DnD. Personally I'd prefer the dark horse wins.

But my money is on that they'll give Starfinder a shot next. It's a step up from pf 1e if only because mythic shenanigans can't compete shooting a techno-lich with a plasma rifle. I guess we'll just see what happens. 

The forum software must be hungry today.

[Achilles]

13 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Well Pazio did license WotR after 2e was published so I think they're at least willing to license their 1e adventure paths. While I agree that they'd prefer some advertisement for their current product line, any attention probably helps when you're a distant second to DnD. Personally I'd prefer the dark horse wins.

But my money is on that they'll give Starfinder a shot next. It's a step up from pf 1e if only because mythic shenanigans can't compete shooting a techno-lich with a plasma rifle. I guess we'll just see what happens. 

The forum software must be hungry today.

I chalked that up to WotR already being in the works, but that's speculation on my part (especially since I'm not incredibly savvy re: the timing of those events).

But per @Gromnir it looks like they've already spoken on the matter, so I'll defer to those that follow this more closely than I do