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The All things Political Topic - The Night never knew that its end was fleet.


Amentep

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6 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Dunno, I just found the juxtaposition of quotes from the article amusing. 

Oh yeah it was definitely funny. And totally tone deaf. I was just curious from a philosophical standpoint. I didn’t mean that as any kind of a response.

 

"What can't be changed must be endured"

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19 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

How much money does it take to be considered rich anyway? Is there a number? Or is it like Potter Stewart said (about something else) you just know it when you see it?

I believe that at around 10 million, give or take, a single person can live off interest, comfortably. 

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18 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

How much money does it take to be considered rich anyway? Is there a number? Or is it like Potter Stewart said (about something else) you just know it when you see it?

It's going to vary pretty widely by region. 

But the quote about working hard for the properties always cracks me up. Like, do you mean that other people aren't working hard to pay rent and just get by? Circumstances play a huge role in how you go from zero dollars to multiple properties, and it always amazes me that people can't be reflective of that. But, as the BLM lady in the article said, that is the issue with privilege. It makes people uncomfortable to recognize their privileges.

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56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

How much money does it take to be considered rich anyway? Is there a number? Or is it like Potter Stewart said (about something else) you just know it when you see it?

Nowadays, I think its "anyone that has more than you do". If they have two grains of rice but you only have one, then its your birthright to be given half of their second grain. I just hope I live long enough to be able to foist the costs of healthcare and living expenses onto some fatcat schmuck. :lol:

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56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

How much money does it take to be considered rich anyway? Is there a number? Or is it like Potter Stewart said (about something else) you just know it when you see it?

As others have pointed out, there are a lot of ways to measure and therefore a lot of opinions.

There seems to be a fair amount of research that shows that happiness does not seem to be improved by income after about $75k per year (1.5x the median income in the US) and decreases significantly as one acquires more wealth (the argument being that I'm more likely to lose sleep over the size of my yacht if I have one)

While that doesn't help with the question, "what is rich?", I think it's an interesting touchpoint in the discussion of "what will make me happy?"

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I agree with Achilles. Being rich in terms of wealth is far less important than being happy with what you have. I have a home to live in, food in the refrigerator, heck a refrigerator to put food in, electricity, fresh running water, and a dog that thinks I’m freaking awesome. And most important of all no debt. I’m the richest man I know. Jeff Bezos has nothing on me.

there have been two times in my life when I have been completely and horrifyingly in debt. Nobody can be happy in that situation. 

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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8 hours ago, Elerond said:

Actually correct: ISIS-K gets almost all its funding from Pakistan. Majority of Taliban's fund also come from Pakistan and Iran is second and after that comes Saudi sources (Qatar as largest source). Iranian sources also fund lots of other terrorist organisations (as Taliban is till classed as terrorist organization) in Afghanistan. Funds don't come at least directly from governments but wealthy patrons in those countries.

Almost all of ISIS-K's funding is funneled through Pakistan from wealthy Gulf donors because it's a neighbour, but its ultimate source is mostly rich Gulf individuals with a dollop of fake charities and the like. Pakistan as a country doesn't support them, the Taliban would have to go far further off the reservation than they have- probably pal up with India or similar, so not likely given Modi's bigotry- for Pakistan to back anyone else. They're still Pakistan's pet project. Also, Pakistan is not completely moronic, and backing ISIS in any way would be a very very obvious own goal waiting to happen.

While no doubt there are plenty of sources saying that Iran supports the Taliban that is ludicrous, they have a cold détente based on both wanting the US out. They also have a limited budget, and far more friendly groups to fund (in Afghanistan and elsewhere) than the Taliban, and not just the Hazara. There are also 'sources' saying that Iran funds ISIS, and no doubt rain on your wedding day/ 1000 forks when all you need is a knife/ meeting then man of your dreams then meeting his wonderful wife are all despicable Iranian plots in the mind of someone at the CIA. I mean, funny how "Russia is putting bounties on US soldiers stuff" disappeared entirely after the election, having done its job of embarrassing Donald Trump and reinforcing the Russiagate conspiracy theory... Well OK, there was a barely reported hearing in which it was labelled as 'low confidence' (spook code for 'a load of old bollocks').

Both the Taliban and ISIS-K get/ got a decent amount of internal funding too, from intimidation and drugs. Be interesting to see if the Taliban goes back to a zero drugs policy now they're in power again or not.

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am o' the opinion that tell somebody they is privileged is self defeating. call somebody racist or privileged immediate makes the situation adversarial.

am a minority and we grew up poor by any standard, even by standards in the poor nations o' the middle east. nevertheless, the people who raised us made sure we knew we were loved and they stressed the value o' learning if not formal education. we also were a gifted athlete who were offered full-ride scholarships in multiple sports. oh, and we had a pony when we were a kid. compared to more than a few poor white trash kids who grew up with an alcoholic/addicted parent and took regular beatings or suffered debilitating indifference during their formative years, am having a hard time complaining 'bout their privilege. after gifting half our accumulated wealth to charities the remainder is nevertheless substantial and we retired comfortably at fifty. so is our fortune earned but the white person who grew up in the burbs and is maybe able to send both of her kids to college and possibly retire before she is too old to enjoy twilight years needing to ask forgiveness from minorities everywhere?

US institutions since the inception o' the nation has been active promoting racist policies which disadvantage minorities. true statement. now what?  tell somebody their opinion is less worthy and their accomplishments is tainted 'cause they is white and refuse to admit their privilege bothers us on a fundamental level in addition to the fact am realizing such condemnations and recriminations is self defeating. 'ccording to most any poll we has seen, the overwhelming majority o' americans, even republicans, believe there is endemic racism in this country, but almost nobody is believing they personal is racist. perhaps such a recognition is evidence o' a disconnect but it should also been seen as an opportunity. is a whole lotta not minorities in this country and they largely believe that minorities is treated unfair-- is not like the 1920s or 50s. is objective better. tell those not minorities, many o' whom has been suffering decades o' financial hardship that they is lucky to be so privileged and you is transforming potential allies into enemies. what a waste.

and am gonna note the comments made in the article 'bout the community in colorado is less the kinda stuff rich people says so much as the kinda thing douchey people would believe. me and mine attitude is less 'bout wealth than is 'bout being an a-hole. during a pandemic a community particular hard hit by a disease which has killed hundreds o' thousands o' americans took efforts to slow spread o' covid-19. mass quarantines woulda' been impractical solution, so at least prevent the non-resident population from accelerating the spread were seen as a reasonable option. the fact some people cannot look past their own selfish interests is not so much a wealth problem as is recognition some people is gonna be selfish regardless o' the circumstances.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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16 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Both the Taliban and ISIS-K get/ got a decent amount of internal funding too, from intimidation and drugs. Be interesting to see if the Taliban goes back to a zero drugs policy now they're in power again or not.

I'm sure they'll find a way to rationalize selling drugs to the "heathen westerners". Digging up some old verse and (re)interpret it to say what they need it to say in order to justify it.

I just don't see Iran (and Iraq) support neither ISIS nor Taliban. The latter are Sunni and would probably kill off the majority of Iran and Iraq's populations (being Shiite) given half a chance. ISIS in particular seems to have Shiite Muslims as their favourite targets.

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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16 hours ago, Gromnir said:

and am gonna note the comments made in the article 'bout the community in colorado is less the kinda stuff rich people says so much as the kinda thing douchey people would believe. me and mine attitude is less 'bout wealth than is 'bout being an a-hole. during a pandemic a community particular hard hit by a disease which has killed hundreds o' thousands o' americans took efforts to slow spread o' covid-19. mass quarantines woulda' been impractical solution, so at least prevent the non-resident population from accelerating the spread were seen as a reasonable option. the fact some people cannot look past their own selfish interests is not so much a wealth problem as is recognition some people is gonna be selfish regardless o' the circumstances.

And it's not limited to a single country either. Being an a-hole is an international thing.

While this may be the case in the US:

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-the-far-right-and-militia-groups-are-protesting-coronavirus-lockdowns-in-the-us/febe93e3-3796-42e6-94b5-599143d43959

Why the far-right and militia groups are protesting coronavirus lockdowns in the US

...

The biggest anti-lockdown protest to date took place in Lansing, Michigan on 15 April, where about 3,000 people gathered.

Mr Trump appeared to tweet support for demonstrators in Michigan, as well as those in Virginia and Minnesota, where coronavirus lockdowns were imposed by Democratic governors.

Elliott Brennan, a research associate at the United States Studies Centre, said it was no surprise the "fringe" far-right groups were mobilising in those states.

“It’s no coincidence Trump and the shady underworld of the far-right have singled out those places," he said.

"They’re all crucial to Trump for his possible re-election in November and places where the Democrats can be made to see culpable for the afflictions people in those states are feeling as a result of the coronavirus.”

 

But, every country has it's own problems (the US had Trump, we're still stuck with Scott Morrison, if only because there has been no election since he ****ed up the handling of the bushfires so badly)

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/inside-telegram-fringe-groups-behind-protests-where-conspiracy-theories-spread/news-story/6d92de607490f2515c9ee0fa04c713e8

Shared widely on Telegram and Facebook are messages about storming the press conferences of NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian with an army of “100,000”.

The proponents of “freedom rallies” in Australia’s two largest cities, attended by as many as 30,000 people, are devout followers of QAnon, members of the far-right and prominent anti-vaxxers who refer to the majority in lockdown as “masked zombie slaves” with “nothing inside them at all”.

“The “pandemic” is a cover for a currency reset (aka the Great Reset) and everything that comes along with it is a smokescreen,” one Telegram user wrote in the Sydney Freedom Rally group — an offshoot of the main organising group, the Worldwide Rally for Freedom.

Others call for more extreme measures.

 

These are mostly just morons. Gullible, easy to manipulate and completely incapable of independent, critical thinking. Oh yeah and a few populist leaders who are happy to walk over corpses (the more the better) if it helps their wallets and keep them in power.

 

Then there are the better organized groups with a different agenda. It's still about power, but they want to use the means to a different end than the above:

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2021/08/26/neo-nazi-anti-lockdown-recruit/

Neo-Nazis are targeting anti-lockdown rallies and using covert tactics to indoctrinate frustrated Australians into their hate-filled and violent ideology.

At least two leaders of the far-right National Socialist Network were at Melbourne’s anti-lockdown protest on the weekend, trying to recruit new members to their group, The New Daily can reveal.

It comes as Anti Defamation Commission chairman Dvir Abramovich, warned extremist groups are using the COVID crisis to “fan the flames” of hatred, resulting in increased anger towards the Jewish community.

Before the weekend rally, the two neo-Nazi leaders, who TND has chosen not to name, appeared on a far-right anti-semitic YouTube show watched by almost 1000 people.

...

Different source, same issue:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/political-ambitions-and-anti-lockdown-protests-how-neo-nazis-seek-to-spread-influence-20210813-p58imf.html

Politicians on both sides have called for Australia’s largest neo-Nazi group to be banned as a terrorist organisation after secret video and audio emerged of its violent inner workings and hopes to provoke a race war.

Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews said on Monday that the National Socialist Network’s activities were disturbing and warned the threat posed by “extremist nationalist and racist individuals and groups is real and growing”.

 

In some ways, I find the latter more disturbing than the outright stupid. Evil *and* stupid.

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Afghanistan Is Not the ‘Graveyard of Empires’ (msn.com)

The first stage of grief is...

Also, @Achilles is correct.  The happiest people usually make about the GDP per capita of your region of residence.  So in the U.S. you want to make about $63,000/y to be happy.  There's other factors of course(political, cultural, ect.) but that's the basic gist of it, and should be a good starting guide on where you would like to live given your income capabilities.

Edited by ComradeYellow

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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image.jpeg.77df6eedd53bdb8b4019561c6a0e5f72.jpeg

in the interest of keeping the politics out of the funny I’ll leave this here. Anyone who was hoping the United States would return to sanity once the orange menace was gone is certainly disappointed  now. Can’t wait to see what comes next.

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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2 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Afghanistan Is Not the ‘Graveyard of Empires’ (msn.com)

The first stage of grief is...

Also, @Achilles is correct.  The happiest people usually make about the GDP per capita of your region of residence.  So in the U.S. you want to make about $63,000/y to be happy.  There's other factors of course(political, cultural, ect.) but that's the basic gist of it, and should be a good starting guide on where you would like to live given your income capabilities.

I think it’s all about debt. Debt = Misery. I would rather make $30,000 with no debt service than $60,000 when better than half of it is going to pay back money already spent.

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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You can live fine and happily in the U.S. off of 63k/y, especially in the rural areas and if it's individual income, for dual income you'd probably want to go 1.5 that much.  The American psyche is just so unhappy and they think they need more more more which is in and of itself a cultural issue.  Statistics show that if most people around you make the same income and share the same values and lifestyles, happiness increases.

I'd rather live in a situation where myself and everyone around me is poor and living in conditions that are subpar by Western standards that be the sucker that make middle income and surrounded by people who are very wealthy.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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if you retire at 65 and want to make $35k per year based on extreme safe interest only investments, you would need more than $1 million saved to last into your 80s. if you are 25 today, to save $1 million dollars by 65 you better start by saving $600 per month and increasing steadily.

more than 50% o' the adult US population has more debt than assets. is a whole lotta the adult population making just enough to cover rent and bus fare and little more; their retirement plan is lotto scratchers.

comrade wouldn't recognize the american psyche if it jumped up and smacked him across the face with a rotting trout.

HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Meanwhile, in New Zealand:

One Person Shows up at Anti-Lockdown Protest in Auckland

Kind of wish they'd keep the old title about police breaking up a one man protest.

(We did have a larger protest right at the beginning, maybe a few dozen people. Not the brightest bulbs deliberately and pointlessly getting themselves arrested when the courts are running on an essential basis and you tell the bail hearing you'll offend again, hoping to act like you're Nelson Mandela on Robben Island but forgetting that you won't have internet access sitting in a police cell...)

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This whole anti-mask/anti-vaxx sh*t is a Zone A thing.  Everyone in Zone B seems to be compliant on the scientific consensus regarding Covid-19 and its variants, hence their successful handling of the pandemic.

By the way, when I refer to "Zone A" I mean usually the U.S., Australia, Canada, EU, etc aka the "Collective West"

"Zone B" would be Beijing, Moscow, Tehran, etc. aka "The Other Team in the East".

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“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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Moscow and Tehran aren't examples of successful handling of the pandemic.

In Russia people mostly don't use face masks and those who do usually don't cover their face with it, but keep it around in case official comes to inspect place. 

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On 8/27/2021 at 6:10 PM, Zoraptor said:

Be interesting to see if the Taliban goes back to a zero drugs policy now they're in power again or not.

Taliban Move to Ban Opium Production in Afghanistan - WSJ

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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30 minutes ago, Elerond said:

I would predict that their ban is similar as one they had when they were in power last time and Afghanistan will become again world largest opium producer

It all boils down to money.  If they can't find other ways to reinvigorate the Afghan economy like China's BRI for instance (Remember, China is much more powerful economically and politically than it was 20 years ago) then yes probably.

I'll go out on a limb and say that the Taliban is probably more interested in foreign partnerships now and opium trade will remain curbed significantly.  The world has changed quite a bit in 20 years and a new generation is up and coming.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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