Coronavirus 666: The Number of the Delta Variant (but in an entirely scientific context)

[Gorth]

it's probably of little comfort to the people suffering in Florida, but they don't have a monopoly on stupidity. They have their Florida Man/Men, Australia has its Bogans. They were out in numbers, violating the stay at home orders, which has to stay in place because people like the protesters, keep violating the stay at home orders. As for the average intelligence of Australians, one just has to take a look at the commentary sections of Sky News. It's as facepalm worthy as the commentary sections on Fox News. Could be because both are run by the same guy of course (unlike say AC/DC, this source of cognitive degeneration export article is nothing to be proud of)...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58291873

 

Police in the Australian cities of Melbourne and Sydney have clashed with thousands of people protesting against Covid lockdowns.

In Melbourne, mounted officers used pepper spray when elements of a 4,000-strong rally broke through police lines.

Police arrested 218 people, and at least seven officers were injured.

...

All those arrested face fines of A$5,452 (£2,850) for breaching Covid regulations, police said. Three people were also charged with assaulting police.

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

it's probably of little comfort to the people suffering in Florida, but they don't have a monopoly on stupidity. They have their Florida Man/Men, Australia has its Bogans. They were out in numbers, violating the stay at home orders, which has to stay in place because people like the protesters, keep violating the stay at home orders. As for the average intelligence of Australians, one just has to take a look at the commentary sections of Sky News. It's as facepalm worthy as the commentary sections on Fox News. Could be because both are run by the same guy of course (unlike say AC/DC, this source of cognitive degeneration export article is nothing to be proud of)...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58291873

 

Police in the Australian cities of Melbourne and Sydney have clashed with thousands of people protesting against Covid lockdowns.

In Melbourne, mounted officers used pepper spray when elements of a 4,000-strong rally broke through police lines.

Police arrested 218 people, and at least seven officers were injured.

...

All those arrested face fines of A$5,452 (£2,850) for breaching Covid regulations, police said. Three people were also charged with assaulting police.

 

This is quite a serious story for Oz, who are these people protesting and I assume they represent groups like anti-vaxxers or those " we tired of lockdowns and suffering from  lockdown fatigue " so they take to the streets and generally ignore virus protocols....and end up spreading the virus and variants and ironically they create more lockdowns

Your security forces  need to jail people....fines wont be the right incentive. 6 months-12 months and once people see other people being jailed this intransigence and violence will end.

Thats the solution you guys need to support, it may sound draconian but it creates a new line in the sand of consequence and you dont need to jail many people to see results ...maybe 20 maximum because it gets covered heavily in the press so the message gets sent

And do you know how you justify it ? When anyone has had a loved one die from the virus or works in hospitals and seen the dying and the ventilated you will want and demand consequence for those they either willfully or ignorantly spread the virus  

[Raithe]

[Guard Dog]

Phil Valentine dies of COVID-19, aged 61

it is tragic because he was anit-vacation. But the most disgusting thing of all is how many people seem to be happy about this. If you were ever happy somebody died under any circumstances than you are a f——-g a——-e

Edited August 22, 2021 by Guard Dog

[rjshae]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Phil Valentine dies of COVID-19, aged 61

it is tragic because he was anit-vacation. But the most disgusting thing of all is how many people seem to be happy about this. If you were ever happy somebody died under any circumstances than you are a f——-g a——-e

Well then you probably won't like the Darwin Awards. I suppose it's a type of dark humor.

[Guard Dog]

Jesse Jackson is, in my estimation, a terrible human being . He foments racism and exploits it for money. But he is also a father, grandfather, and has friends and family who love him. Both he and his wife are in the hospital right now with Covid. I genuinely hope they will all be OK.  Finding joy in the mifortune or demise God for bid of your fellow human beings just because you occupy a different part of the political spectrum that they do is pretty disgusting. I remember a lot of people were perversely happy when Rush Limbaugh passed away. Why? Because you didn’t like his radio show? So now you’re happy he’s dead? It’s despicable.

[rjshae]

[rjshae]

37 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Jesse Jackson is, in my estimation, a terrible human being . He foments racism and exploits it for money. But he is also a father, grandfather, and has friends and family who love him. Both he and his wife are in the hospital right now with Covid. I genuinely hope they will all be OK.  Finding joy in the mifortune or demise God for bid of your fellow human beings just because you occupy a different part of the political spectrum that they do is pretty disgusting. I remember a lot of people were perversely happy when Rush Limbaugh passed away. Why? Because you didn’t like his radio show? So now you’re happy he’s dead? It’s despicable.

Sure, I feel sorry for the family. But this was an entirely self-inflicted wound. He didn't play the odds well and paid the price.

[Pidesco]

20 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Jesse Jackson is, in my estimation, a terrible human being . He foments racism and exploits it for money. But he is also a father, grandfather, and has friends and family who love him. Both he and his wife are in the hospital right now with Covid. I genuinely hope they will all be OK.  Finding joy in the mifortune or demise God for bid of your fellow human beings just because you occupy a different part of the political spectrum that they do is pretty disgusting. I remember a lot of people were perversely happy when Rush Limbaugh passed away. Why? Because you didn’t like his radio show? So now you’re happy he’s dead? It’s despicable.

To repeat myself about Limbaugh :

 

And also:

 

And also:

"I'm sorry he's dead. I understand he was suffering."

 

 

To state that someone is happy that Limbaugh died because they didn't like his radio show is incredibly disingenuous. It's akin to saying that some people were happy Ted Bundy died because they disliked his murder weapons. 

 

 

[Pidesco]

[Hurlshort]

"Happy he is dead" and "Relief that a toxic individual is no longer spewing toxicity" are two slightly different things, I suppose.

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

"Happy he is dead" and "Relief that a toxic individual is no longer spewing toxicity" are two slightly different things, I suppose.

The neat thing about TV and radio shows as you don’t need to listen to them. I didn’t. So by being happy that his show is off the air one way or another what someone is  really saying is it made them mad that other people were hearing it right?

Lord knows I have posted here at length what I think of Donald J Trump. But I didn’t wish the man dead when he got Covid. A lot of people were doing that though. I think it’s pretty despicable. I don’t like this person‘s opinions or what they say or do therefore they should die. Or it’s good that they die. Whatever kind of a President Trump was or however low of a man he was I imagine his family didn’t want him dead. Or maybe they did who knows.

[Bartimaeus]

6 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

"Happy he is dead" and "Relief that a toxic individual is no longer spewing toxicity" are two slightly different things, I suppose.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we've all had this particular discussion with Guard Dog before...

At least Valentine didn't go to his grave still spouting the same garbage like so many other have. Heck, Hermain Cain was still tweeting Covid-19 skepticism after he died from it an entire month later... No, really.

[Guard Dog]

34 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Oh I didn’t know we were discussing people who literally killed other people

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

29 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

"Happy he is dead" and "Relief that a toxic individual is no longer spewing toxicity" are two slightly different things, I suppose.

Those look the same to be me tbh. Like if a guy who made a millions peddling bull**** that got kids kicked out of their homes dies of lung cancer, **** it I'm glad he's dead. If there is a he'll his ass is roasting there.

[Bartimaeus]

36 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Those look the same to be me tbh. Like if a guy who made a millions peddling bull**** that got kids kicked out of their homes dies of lung cancer, **** it I'm glad he's dead. If there is a he'll his ass is roasting there.

One approach you're looking at them as an actual person - a person, with all of their friend and family bonds, a lifetime of experiences, accomplishments, dreams, memories, all that they've ever been and that they ever wanted to be from birth to death - and thinking to yourself, "Yeah, I'm glad that person is dead." That was a person - regardless of how flawed or even simply undeniably terrible they may have been, they've now suffered the ultimate terror that we'll all have to go through at some point. A little empathy for others, especially when it's difficult, makes all of us better - even the APPEARANCE of empathy is better than the kind of bloodthirst that happens today whenever someone famous dies. The other approach is looking at them purely through the lens of the harm they've done and were doing via their platform or position and being "phew, glad that ain't happening anymore". I don't know this Valentine guy, so he falls into the latter category for me.

But I would not go nearly so far as Guard Dog would - I would not begrudge anyone who did celebrate the death of someone who had a lifetime of hating and hurting others through their words and life works. I would still always advise courtesy and empathy, but I'd totally get it. And after the last four years, if Trump dropped dead of a heart attack tonight, it'd be pretty difficult for me to not be genuinely glad he was gone - the hurt, division, and actual death that he, as our President, has had a major hand in causing (and could still cause in the future!) in not just my own family but throughout our entire country as well feels very personal indeed, so Guard Dog will have to forgive me (...or not) for being temporarily unable to suppress those feelings.

I'm pretty sure I've said all of this on this subject before, though. Should save this post just in case this comes up again, I guess.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

Sometimes can be good reasons to be glad when someone's dead. 

[Guard Dog]

Let me ask you guys a question then. As I said earlier Jessie Jackson is in the hospital in Chicago having a very difficult time with COVID-19. If you accept my premise that he has spent his entire life exploiting racism for money should we be happy if he dies? Or is your lack of empathy only held out for people of a different political spectrum?

Hey look, my condemnation of celebrating death doesn’t extend to all people in all circumstances. Humans that actually literally kill other humans and physically harmed them and send others to do it in their stead we are certainly better off without them around. Osama Bin Laden left behind numerous relatives and IDGAF if they miss him. But what you guys are talking about here, as well as the comments on the new article about Valentines death is celebrating the death of a person who killed no one, physically hurt no one, stole from no one, they just “thought” wrong. 
 

there is a certain irony when people who advised against vaccinations die from the disease the vaccine was for. It doesn’t make it an event worthy of high fives. 
 

it troubles me how empathy is being bred out or burned out of people in the world today. I blame the internet but that’s just me. Maybe people were always mean spirited we just never knew how widespread it was.

[Bartimaeus]

39 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Let me ask you guys a question then. As I said earlier Jessie Jackson is in the hospital in Chicago having a very difficult time with COVID-19. If you accept my premise that he has spent his entire life exploiting racism for money should we be happy if he dies? Or is your lack of empathy only held out for people of a different political spectrum?

If you believe he has had a hand in causing harm to others throughout his life (whether through his actions or his words, and I am personally a big believer in personal responsibility for the words you broadcast to the world - the United States has probably the highest standard of free speech throughout the world(?), yet even here you can be held personally liable for crossing specific lines, and I think that makes perfect sense...I'm sure we all have different personal lines on this matter, however), and especially if he would have gone on doing exactly that if he were not to die, then sure. The world would be made a better place without him hurting more people, right? I think that's the key for me - if the world is made a net better place by your absence, I totally get others being glad about it finally happening.

And again, I don't know anything about this Valentine guy - I'm not looking at him as an actual person, I'm essentially objectifying him as purely what I've heard others say about him regarding his role in spreading needless stupidity (at the very least), and when you do that, it's a heck of a lot easier to go "glad he's gone". But the other side of that coin is that I'm literally not thinking of anything even remotely approaching a person, but rather a few half-formed ideas attached to just a name. I think the article had a picture of his face in it, but already memory fades and I recall nothing of it. So it doesn't exactly carry the same weight as, say, my hatred for Trump, and I'm sure that's true for a lot of other people too.

39 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

it troubles me how empathy is being bred out or burned out of people in the world today. [...] Maybe people were always mean spirited we just never knew how widespread it was.

Probably more everyone...being kind of aware of each other and how different we can all be on a global scale? People have always been highly tribalistic, but it's only in recent history that there was the ability for us to interact at any kind of length with people outside of our different personal "tribes" (through the radio, through the news, all of the rest of TV, and especially actually being able to interact with each other at will through the internet of course...) and maybe this is the eventual result - this sort of interconnection with billions of people makes it difficult to conceptualize each other as being anything more than nameless, faceless, person-less others.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Achilles]

9 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

If you were ever happy somebody died under any circumstances than you are a f——-g a——-e

Two thought experiments to see how far we're going to go with this argument:

1. What was your reaction to the news of the death of Osama bin Laden?
2. If someone were actively trying to take your life, but you were able to take theirs (in self defense) would you be happy that they died and you didn't?

I see two ways out of this:

1. We're all f----ing a----oles (in which case there is no moral high ground to be claimed here), or
2. There are some circumstances in which case it's okay to be glad someone is dead (in which case the important question would seem to be, "which are those?")

Edited August 22, 2021 by Achilles
missing word

[Guard Dog]

16 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Two thought experiments to see how far we're going to go with this argument:

1. What was your reaction to the news of the death of Osama bin Laden?
2. If someone were actively trying to take your life, but you were able to take theirs (in self defense) would you be happy that they died and you didn't?

I see two ways out of this:

1. We're all f----ing a----oles (in which case there is no moral high ground to be claimed here), or
2. There are some circumstances in which case it's okay to be glad someone is dead (in which case the important question would seem to be, "which are those?")

Read my further responses. I addressed all of your points. In fact one of them verbatim.

[Achilles]

6 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Read my further responses. I addressed all of your points. In fact one of them verbatim.

I'm not sure you did.

If you accept that all of us are "f----ing a---oles" (emphasis on "all of us") then the problem isn't that you don't understand people's reaction. The issue is this reaction for one particular person. You seem to think (per your post) that he doesn't have any blood on his hands. Others don't share that opinion. Someone is mistaken.

If that person is you, then there are two strikes against your claim for the moral high ground and maybe an opportunity for some deeper thinking on how we should operationally define "empathy".

If the person (or persons) is whomever you encountered who is happy he died, then they don't get to claim the moral high ground either (meaning maybe there is no moral high ground to be had). Interestingly, there is still an opportunity for that "thinking about empathy" bit

Side note: It is apparent that you were a fan of his show. My condolences for your loss.

[Guard Dog]

9 minutes ago, Achilles said:

I'm not sure you did.

If you accept that all of us are "f----ing a---oles" (emphasis on "all of us") then the problem isn't that you don't understand people's reaction. The issue is this reaction for one particular person. You seem to think (per your post) that he doesn't have any blood on his hands. Others don't share that opinion. Someone is mistaken.

If that person is you, then there are two strikes against your claim for the moral high ground and maybe an opportunity for some deeper thinking on how we should operationally define "empathy".

If the person (or persons) is whomever you encountered who is happy he died, then they don't get to claim the moral high ground either (meaning maybe there is no moral high ground to be had). Interestingly, there is still an opportunity for that "thinking about empathy" bit

Side note: It is apparent that you were a fan of his show. My condolences for your loss.

Actually I’ve never heard the show in my life. I have heard of him. He’s something of an institution in these parts. But his show broadcasts in Nashville and I live closer to Memphis. I couldn’t pick up if I wanted to.

anyway back to your point I’m a little confused. Who are we talking about when you’re saying someone has blood on their hands? But let me just throw this example down. In my opinion Donald Trump has blood on his hands for the capital riot. It’s very hard not to argue that he incited them to do exactly what they ended up doing. Now he did not intend for them to storm into the capital and wreck havoc and end up with people dying. But he did say let’s go over there and make our voices heard. Maybe that does not rise to the level of criminal culpability. But in my opinion at least it certainly rises to the level of moral culpability. Personally I thought he should have been criminally charged for it. That said I didn’t want him dead. I would much rather he left in disgrace. Or maybe spent a little bit of time in jail.

if you’re making an argument that a guy who does a radio show somehow has blood on his hands that’s going to be a much harder sell. Take what Hurlshot said about Rush Limbaugh. A lot of people found his show toxic. I think the last time I heard it was in the 90s and I don’t expect it’s any different in the later years. He was certainly very right wing. But nobody was being compelled to listen to him. So if you find his radio show toxic, and you don’t have to hear it, why then do you find joy in his demise? Suppose he didn’t die. Suppose his show was just taken off the air for one reason or another? Why would that make somebody who never listens to it happy? The only reason I can conclude is they were mad the other people were listening to it. So that means they’re happy people they don’t know can’t engage in an activity they disapprove of. If anybody thinks a person talking on the radio is doing such harm that it’s good that they die They absolutely need to get the hell over themselves. 

[Achilles]

45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Actually I’ve never heard the show in my life. I have heard of him. He’s something of an institution in these parts. But his show broadcasts in Nashville and I live closer to Memphis. I couldn’t pick up if I wanted to.

I stand corrected. With that said, I'm not sure where the outrage is coming from though. Especially in light of points I made above.

45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

if you’re making an argument that a guy who does a radio show somehow has blood on his hands that’s going to be a much harder sell.

45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

But nobody was being compelled to listen to him.

45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

If anybody thinks a person talking on the radio is doing such harm that it’s good that they die They absolutely need to get the hell over themselves. 

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

Interestingly, there is still an opportunity for that "thinking about empathy" bit  

Cheers!

Edited August 22, 2021 by Achilles
fixin' quotes

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

One approach you're looking at them as an actual person - a person, with all of their friend and family bonds, a lifetime of experiences, accomplishments, dreams, memories, all that they've ever been and that they ever wanted to be from birth to death - and thinking to yourself, "Yeah, I'm glad that person is dead." That was a person - regardless of how flawed or even simply undeniably terrible they may have been, they've now suffered the ultimate terror that we'll all have to go through at some point. A little empathy for others, especially when it's difficult, makes all of us better - even the APPEARANCE of empathy is better than the kind of bloodthirst that happens today whenever someone famous dies. The other approach is looking at them purely through the lens of the harm they've done and were doing via their platform or position and being "phew, glad that ain't happening anymore". I don't know this Valentine guy, so he falls into the latter category for me.

I think in many cases the answer to the acknowledgement of someone as a person (with personal bonds and all that jazz) can be "I don't care, **** them". Rush Limbaugh is a man who contributed to making a lot of lives hell and made millions doing so, when I think of all the people I've known who got kicked out of their homes or suffered abuse by their parents because ol' Rush was telling them how teh gheys were abominations, it's hard to give him anything but scorn. I'll fully admit to saying that empathy is conditional, and I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is lying to themselves. You will be glad when people you think are horrible kick the bucket.