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20 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

 

If WSJ is putting this, is it still just a fringe conspiracy theory? @Gromnir

 

@Gromnir

WSJ is a credible source of objective information in most cases, it would be imprudent to ignore their pithy and erudite words 🤓

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

@Gromnir

WSJ is a credible source of objective information in most cases, it would be imprudent to ignore their pithy and erudite words 🤓

 

I would not call it objective source of information when your source itself says that it is just their opinion

 

EDIT: It seems that neither of the authors of that opinion piece have any expertise on virology 

Edited by Elerond
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8 minutes ago, Elerond said:

I would not call it objective source of information when your source itself says that it is just their opinion

 

EDIT: It seems that neither of the authors of that opinion piece have any expertise on virology 

Elerond !!! Why do you hate the free media, it sounds like suggesting you admire the way the CCP handles their " free media " .... the WSJ is a credible and legitimate part of the global free media

Opinion pieces are just that but it doesnt change the importance and veracity of the WSJ  articles

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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That whole Bill Maher piece on China being better than the US is alright for a comedy bit, but he basically brushes over all the problems in China and then only looks at the silly parts of the US. Going after the University system in particular is ridiculous, since you still have a huge number of Chinese students leaving their country to study abroad

That huge middle class that is growing in China is also super interested in products designed by American companies. I'd say that is a huge difference between the Cold War and the current power dynamic between the US and China. Our economies are completely tied together at this point. We have benefited from their rise. 

The US government also may be a total mess, but I certainly wouldn't trade it for the one in China. So yeah, Maher had some laughs but it is easy to poke holes in.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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1 hour ago, Hurlsnot said:

 

The US government also may be a total mess, but I certainly wouldn't trade it for the one in China. So yeah, Maher had some laughs but it is easy to poke holes in.

Isn’t that all he’s good for anyway? Anybody who’s going to him for actual insightful commentary has already made a mistake

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1 hour ago, Hurlsnot said:

Maher had some laughs

That's the most unbelievable claim in this thread. 

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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41 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

That's the most unbelievable claim in this thread. 

I don't know, as someone not from the US Bill Maher is fairly hilarious. :p

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No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

 

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43 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Isn’t that all he’s good for anyway? Anybody who’s going to him for actual insightful commentary has already made a mistake

He openly has admitted he has no idea why people listen to him. But he has said some hilarious things, see the link below 

https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2021/05/bill-maher-admits-the-left-sucks-the-fun-out-of-everything/

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 minute ago, majestic said:

I don't know, as someone not from the US Bill Maher is fairly hilarious. :p

QFT 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hurlsnot said:

That whole Bill Maher piece on China being better than the US is alright for a comedy bit, but he basically brushes over all the problems in China and then only looks at the silly parts of the US. Going after the University system in particular is ridiculous, since you still have a huge number of Chinese students leaving their country to study abroad

That huge middle class that is growing in China is also super interested in products designed by American companies. I'd say that is a huge difference between the Cold War and the current power dynamic between the US and China. Our economies are completely tied together at this point. We have benefited from their rise. 

The US government also may be a total mess, but I certainly wouldn't trade it for the one in China. So yeah, Maher had some laughs but it is easy to poke holes in.

It boils down to "a government that provides employment and services to it's citizens so long as your loyal vs. a country where the government bickers about petty issues and doesn't do a damn thing for the population but can actually take some degree of criticism".

The grass isn't greener on the other side, it's at an angle.

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“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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9 minutes ago, majestic said:

I don't know, as someone not from the US Bill Maher is fairly hilarious. :p

For at least 5 years he's just doubled down on the smug liberal shtick and has become a boring opinion show host who occasionally curses.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

 

If WSJ is putting this, is it still just a fringe conspiracy theory? @Gromnir

 

*sigh*

you are doing this bass ackwards. you have reached a conclusion, and any story which confirms your bias is "evidence." 

wsj and nypost *snort* share not a peer reviewed study or anything close, but an opinion piece.

could new evidence change the situation? sure, but at this point all the reputable scientific feedback has claimed covid-19 does not have any o' the telltale signs o' human interference. why would the opinion piece change hearts and minds?

you seizing on every rando story to bolster your unsupported belief does little to alter our skepticism. however, if the goal were to give us yet another opportunity to point out your willingness to embrace bs w/o evidence, then mission accomplished.

advice: the smart play is to wait. what compels dp to link every not study which supports his belief? eventual there will be a peer reviewed study and subsequent expert debate regarding methodology and data and whatnot. or there will never be such. in either case, 'til you get something legit...

resurrection.-christ.thomas.jpg

HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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17 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

For at least 5 years he's just doubled down on the smug liberal shtick and has become a boring opinion show host who occasionally curses.

Maybe, but that's sort of what I meant. I have never seen a full show, only a number of clips on YouTube, and those are probably hand picked and contain a laugh or two. Unless it was about evangelicals believing Trump to be the reincarnation of King Cyrus the Great. That was hilarious from start to finish, but those jokes practically wrote themselves anyway.

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

 

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15 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Bill Maher is not a liberal. He is also not a conservative.

Ok, then he's a smug contrarian centrist or whatever.

1 minute ago, majestic said:

Maybe, but that's sort of what I meant. I have never seen a full show, only a number of clips on YouTube, and those are probably hand picked and contain a laugh or two. Unless it was about evangelicals believing Trump to be the reincarnation of King Cyrus the Great. That was hilarious from start to finish, but those jokes practically wrote themselves anyway.

The full show is, last I watched one years ago, pretty much a talk show but with a self-important smug host instead of someone feigning intrest. Taken as a whole it's boring with a handful of comedy bits in the intro and outro. I guess if you're just watching those segments it's a lot better than the actual show.

Evangelicals are just so weird that any attempts to make fun of them make them look better than what they actually believe.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Ok, then he's a smug contrarian centrist or whatever.

The term "liberal" is pretty annoying in the U.S. Actual liberalism is a theoretical centrist position in the U.S. that doesn't really exist for practical purposes anymore, usually means more right-wing-but-not-necessarily-insane abroad(?), and yet has the connotation of "pro-antichrist left-wing demon" to the right-wing here. :shrugz:

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

The term "liberal" is pretty annoying in the U.S. Actual liberalism is a theoretical centrist position in the U.S. that doesn't really exist for practical purposes anymore, usually means more right-wing-but-not-necessarily-insane abroad(?), and yet has the connotation of "pro-antichrist left-wing demon" to the right-wing here. :shrugz:

Yeah, but I'd argue that is what liberals in the US mostly are as well. Like looking at the Democrats, they're mostly running on not being Republicans. Which does work as a strategy, because Republicans are absolute ghouls who seem to always find new lows to hit (like labeling pipeline protestors domestic terrorists, rallying the dip**** brigade for a putsch, and the new Jim Crow in several states because they lost an election) so just avoiding that is reason enough to convince folks to vote for the Ds, even if they are otherwise completely uninspiring and not doing a damm thing about the impending apocalyptic future we're barreling towards.

I honestly wish the Dems were what Republicans said, because pro-antichrist left-wing demon is way cooler than bland centrist wonks. Give me CHAOS Biden, who will personally force patriots to go gay commie vegan halal at gunpoint, over the senile old dude that struggles to finish a sentence we actually got.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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The majority of the Democratic party relies *way* too much on divisive idpol garbage while having a holier-than-thou/I-know-better-than-you attitude about everything for me to be comfortable calling them liberals in the classical sense, but yes, they're the closest thing to it in the U.S. The day we advance past idpol into actual class-based politics to more properly recognize all the ways our different classes of people are getting screwed or are disadvantaged (and the opposite) without everything immediately resorting to completely unnuanced identity grouping, baiting, and targeting that drives what should be relatively like-minded to be at each other's throats for no good gosh-danged reason will be a good one...but it's probably not going to happen any time soon, because both sides currently love it.

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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7 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Bill Maher is not a liberal. He is also not a conservative.

Heh, sounds like me.  Too bad realistic minded people are rare in Western world (well, at least on the surface).

Also, am already seeing scattered 'Trump 2024' flags scattered here and there in my neighborhood.

Get over it you morons, Trump lost, he's not the champion of our time, and we can do way better. 

Good grief.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

The majority of the Democratic party relies *way* too much on divisive idpol garbage while having a holier-than-thou/I-know-better-than-you attitude about everything for me to be comfortable calling them liberals in the classical sense, but yes, they're the closest thing to it in the U.S. The day we advance past idpol into actual class-based politics to more properly recognize all the ways our different classes of people are getting screwed or are disadvantaged (and the opposite) without everything immediately resorting to completely unnuanced identity grouping, baiting, and targeting that drives what should be relatively like-minded to be at each other's throats for no good gosh-danged reason will be a good one...but it's probably not going to happen any time soon, because both sides currently love it.

I mean if you want to be accurate, liberalism in the classical sense didn't have much trouble coexisting with stuff like scientific racism that formed the base of white supremacy. :shrugz: It certainly was inconsistent with the stated philosophy of liberalism, but no ideology has been free of inconsistency when birthed into the real world.

Everyone seems to have a different definition and loves calling things they don't agree with idpol. Really I think the Democrats (and the ideological milieu that constitutes much of their political grouping) can be critiqued on the lines of their identity representation based politics, as in their solution to marginalized people being marginalized is to get some of them in positions of power, because this doesn't really do anything for the structural issues that result in marginalization. When more class based politics emerge, I think it will look more like strikes or the protests after George Floyd's murder than some populist candidates gaining steam by appealing to working class folks with the $15 minimum wage.

Edited by KP the meanie zucchini
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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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image.thumb.jpeg.9319fde919dce32f2ba5b350656c877b.jpeg

 

Raytheon would like you all to see the virtue they are signaling. After all, what could be more inclusive and less discriminatory than the detonation of a missile? 😆

"What can't be changed must be endured"

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I forget, why do people get bent up about virtue signaling ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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7 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I forget, why do people get bent up about virtue signaling ?

Don’t know. But I do think it should be mocked like everything else.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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