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The all things Political Topic - For who in this dark, dream-haunted Land dares Resist the righteous flame of Wrath And Doom themselves to despair and death?


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34 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Ah ok, I see now.  If the police are killing people with the rubber bullets, does seem reasonable that the cops are not using them properly though.

Well their isnt  really an incorrect way to use rubber bullets, they get used instead of normal bullets as they considered non-lethal  and 97  % of the time they dont kill people but are suppose to hurt and knock them down. But sometimes like the link I posted a rubber bullet can kill you 

https://www.rt.com/news/413622-rubber-bullet-fatalities-ucberkeley/

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Just now, HoonDing said:

IMagine what would happen in Amrika when Drump would get locked up.

That is an interesting point ....I wonder ?

I know in Florida they passed some state law where Trump cant be arrested or something similar for charges he was facing in NY 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Well their isnt  really an incorrect way to use rubber bullets, they get used instead of normal bullets as they considered non-lethal  and 97  % of the time they dont kill people but are suppose to hurt and knock them down. But sometimes like the link I posted a rubber bullet can kill you 

https://www.rt.com/news/413622-rubber-bullet-fatalities-ucberkeley/

Yes there is a wrong way to use rubber bullets.  They are "less than lethal". 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Wasn't sure whether to put this in the Movies thread, or the funny things thread instead, but...

So Hollywood wants to do a movie on the Christchurch Mosque attack. Someone leaked local media a draft script and it's about as hilariously awful as anyone's worst imaginings, albeit only excerpts have been publicly released so they've probably picked the worst examples. Basically, everyone involved has been turned into US tropes- including turning stridently pro assimilation Maori Winston Peters into a Mystical Native, having opposition politicians spout Hestonesque pro gun catchphrases (including those who voted for the gun control legislation) and having a tasteful and restrained long and graphic reconstruction of the shooting itself. Perhaps the funniest thing is that not only is it written by a New Zealander, it's the same guy responsible for the excellent Gattaca and Truman Show.

And of course they've committed the worst crime against New Zealand imaginable, and cast Aussie Rose Byrne as our PM.

Not like such things cannot be done well, there's an excellent movie about the Aramoana shootings which was our previous worst mass shooting called 'Out of the Blue' (w/ Karl Urban).  But even that had a lot of opposition despite being (mostly) accurate and respectful.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57826851

"Websites for a Russian-linked ransomware gang blamed for attacks on hundreds of businesses worldwide have gone offline.

Monitors say a payment website and a blog run by the REvil group became suddenly unreachable on Tuesday.

The reason behind the disappearance is unknown, but has sparked speculation that the group may have been targeted deliberately by authorities."
 

I suppose there are two possibilities. If it's just the internet assets that disappeared and are never heard from again, it's probably the CIA that got fed up with the gang. If the gang members disappeared and are never heard from again, it's probably Putin that got fed up with them....

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Or the third option. They run on WIndows.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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7 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Wasn't sure whether to put this in the Movies thread, or the funny things thread instead, but...

So Hollywood wants to do a movie on the Christchurch Mosque attack. Someone leaked local media a draft script and it's about as hilariously awful as anyone's worst imaginings, albeit only excerpts have been publicly released so they've probably picked the worst examples. Basically, everyone involved has been turned into US tropes- including turning stridently pro assimilation Maori Winston Peters into a Mystical Native, having opposition politicians spout Hestonesque pro gun catchphrases (including those who voted for the gun control legislation) and having a tasteful and restrained long and graphic reconstruction of the shooting itself. Perhaps the funniest thing is that not only is it written by a New Zealander, it's the same guy responsible for the excellent Gattaca and Truman Show.

And of course they've committed the worst crime against New Zealand imaginable, and cast Aussie Rose Byrne as our PM.

Not like such things cannot be done well, there's an excellent movie about the Aramoana shootings which was our previous worst mass shooting called 'Out of the Blue' (w/ Karl Urban).  But even that had a lot of opposition despite being (mostly) accurate and respectful.

I can understand your annoyance at the lack of accuracy and respect for this terrible tragedy that happened in NZ and directly impacted the people of NZ. We experience similar things in SA, we had this terrible shooting incident at a mine called Marikana and some people also misrepresent this event and push conspiracy theories around this so I can really  empathize 

But to be honest the Hollywood dramatization of this event is to be expected because a  few things do need to be tweaked so it appeals to an overseas audience

And in this case I am sure this is part of the overall campaign of the left to bans guns or at least reduce the availability of guns with all the mass shootings in the US. So if you consider the final vote in NZ and the outcome that is at least accurate and sends a message to parts of the USA that basically says " look here is a country that had 1 mass shooting and they acted quickly to implement gun  restrictions "

So I think the intention of the movie is well meaning but its audience is not intended for NZ but rather the USA and other countries 

I dont  think its going to change much in the US around this debate but  I will definitely watch this movie but I will at least be aware its not 100% accurate so thanks for the link 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gorth said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57826851

"Websites for a Russian-linked ransomware gang blamed for attacks on hundreds of businesses worldwide have gone offline.

Monitors say a payment website and a blog run by the REvil group became suddenly unreachable on Tuesday.

The reason behind the disappearance is unknown, but has sparked speculation that the group may have been targeted deliberately by authorities."
 

I suppose there are two possibilities. If it's just the internet assets that disappeared and are never heard from again, it's probably the CIA that got fed up with the gang. If the gang members disappeared and are never heard from again, it's probably Putin that got fed up with them....

This is a very interesting and long overdue development 

IMO the effective  clamp down on these types of criminal cyber-espionage groups would have to have come from Russia. The CIA is effective but it has limited resources within the borders of countries like Russia and China to implement  this type of change 

Putin is well aware of how this looks for Russia and has prudently acted against them because this became an irrefutable justification for additional sanctions and consequence from the USA if these groups had continued to act with impunity within the borders of Russia

You see their is a difference between state sponsored cyber-espionage and groups like REvil so hopefully this continues and if so well done to Russia for acting  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Sarex said:

A letter leaked between Heckler and Koch and the German goverment where another shipment of arms, valued at half a million, will be shipped to Kosovo...

Was this done illegally or through the normal legitimate buying of weapons that countries are allowed to do?

And is your concern with this that this could encourage  violence with Serbia? If so I share that concern 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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26 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Was this done illegally or through the normal legitimate buying of weapons that countries are allowed to do?

And is your concern with this that this could encourage  violence with Serbia? If so I share that concern 

Kosovo is not a country recognized by any formal institution, it doesn't have a standing army nor was it ever allowed to have one. Even disregarding all those things, Germany is breaking it's own laws by selling arms to a non NATO country.

There are always concerns, but I doubt it would change much if ever such a conflict arose, as was demonstrated in 99' when they were completely defeated even though they had full logistic and air support of US. We even captured a couple of US soldiers that we released shortly after.

 

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17 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Kosovo is not a country recognized by any formal institution, it doesn't have a standing army nor was it ever allowed to have one. Even disregarding all those things, Germany is breaking it's own laws by selling arms to a non NATO country.

There are always concerns, but I doubt it would change much if ever such a conflict arose, as was demonstrated in 99' when they were completely defeated even though they had full logistic and air support of US. We even captured a couple of US soldiers that we released shortly after.

Thanks for sharing, Germany needs to explain this and not sell any arms to Kosovo because the question has to be " why does Kosovo require weapons " ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sarex said:

Kosovo is not a country recognized by any formal institution, it doesn't have a standing army nor was it ever allowed to have one. Even disregarding all those things, Germany is breaking it's own laws by selling arms to a non NATO country.

Germany recognizes Kosovo as independent state with 96 other countries.

Kosovo is also member of World Bank, World Customs Organization and International Monetary Fund, so at least two formal institutions recognize it. Kosovo is also member of Venice Council

Also Germany has banned sales of small side arms to non-allies (EU, Nato, Switzerland, New Zealand and Australia)

Kosovo has standing army, Kosovo Armed Forces transformed form Kosovo Security Force in 2018.

Germany didn't ban from bigger weapon systems, because French and British manufactures who use German parts were effected by them as they could not sell stuff to Saudi Arabia.

I am only able to find that H&K was seeking license to sell weapons to Kosovo. Not that they have got such license.

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I feel bad for Joe Biden. His natural inclination would be to support the demonstrators in Cuba. But he dares not do it because quite a lot of the Democrats he needs (and who already don’t like him) are quietly sympathetic to the Cuban government.

Edited by Guard Dog

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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20 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Germany recognizes Kosovo as independent state with 96 other countries.

Kosovo is also member of World Bank, World Customs Organization and International Monetary Fund, so at least two formal institutions recognize it. Kosovo is also member of Venice Council

Also Germany has banned sales of small side arms to non-allies (EU, Nato, Switzerland, New Zealand and Australia)

Kosovo has standing army, Kosovo Armed Forces transformed form Kosovo Security Force in 2018.

Germany didn't ban from bigger weapon systems, because French and British manufactures who use German parts were effected by them as they could not sell stuff to Saudi Arabia.

I am only able to find that H&K was seeking license to sell weapons to Kosovo. Not that they have got such license.

That number is pretty fluid. Countries are retracting their recognition while some are giving it.

Do you want me to list the institutions that don't recognize it, because I think mine trump (haha) yours.

1971 provision prohibits in principle the export of weapons to non-NATO countries.

That transformation was in name only and doesn't change what it actually is, a glorified police force. It's still under the direct control of NATO and can't do anything without their say, like, for an example, cross the border in to the north of Kosovo.

That they find ways to circumvent their own laws doesn't really have any bearing on the matter.

Look harder, there is a German article on it.

I'm curious, where are you from originally?

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20 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I feel bad for Joe Biden. His natural inclination would be to support the demonstrators in Cuba. But he dares not do it because quite a lot of the Democrats he needs (and who already don’t like him) are quietly sympathetic to the Cuban government.

The US  tried the carrot approach with Cuba with Obama in 2015 and it was predicted by several Republicans that giving the Castros recognition, and  lessoning of some sanctions, without seeing concessions and Democratic changes  would not make a difference to the oppressive regime

It didnt make a difference so the Trump sanctions must stand until their are Democratic changes

Biden should be supporting the protestors as they want to see changes and more rights within Cuba. He needs to ignore the socialist element in his party if he wants to be consistent now with the view " Democrats care about freedoms of  Democracy and human rights " 

Its not an unreasonable expectation 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Wonder how they know the guns in Yemen, etc. went from Germany to the countries rather than being passed on.  Life FARC getting Bofors weapons a couple of years back.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

The US  tried the carrot approach with Cuba with Obama in 2015 and it was predicted by several Republicans that giving the Castros recognition, and  lessoning of some sanctions, without seeing concessions and Democratic changes  would not make a difference to the oppressive regime

It didnt make a difference so the Trump sanctions must stand until their are Democratic changes

Biden should be supporting the protestors as they want to see changes and more rights within Cuba. He needs to ignore the socialist element in his party if he wants to be consistent now with the view " Democrats care about freedoms of  Democracy and human rights " 

Its not an unreasonable expectation 

I dunno, I think they, too, should be shot with rubber bullets.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I dunno, I think they, too, should be shot with rubber bullets.

Why, they protesting for basic human rights and freedoms that we all enjoy in our Constitutional Democracies 

Do you not want other countries citizens to be part of the Democratic system? They not burning malls and shops and trying to kill the security forces so I see no need for harsh steps like rubber bullets or water cannons but you never know with failed Socialist autocratic states ....they may just do that, I hope not 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why, they protesting for basic human rights and freedoms that we all enjoy in our Constitutional Democracies 

Do you not want other countries citizens to be part of the Democratic system? They not burning malls and shops and trying to kill the security forces so I see no need for harsh steps like rubber bullets or water cannons but you never know with failed Socialist autocratic states ....they may just do that, I hope not 

Sure, if they decide to by themselves.  And it's not as if the situation in Cuba is purely in isolation.  That said, I find the US still having some issue with Cuba after all these years is pretty funny.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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28 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I feel bad for Joe Biden. His natural inclination would be to support the demonstrators in Cuba. But he dares not do it because quite a lot of the Democrats he needs (and who already don’t like him) are quietly sympathetic to the Cuban government.

...

link

if it doesn't match the gd narrative, then it doesn't exist?

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Maybe the definition of support is the 82nd.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Just now, Malcador said:

Maybe the definition of support is the 82nd.

given the gd position on foreign entanglements, am dubious 'bout such a conclusion. 

as an aside, marco rubio did find time to complain 'bout President biden's statement. joe's failure to mention the evils of "socialism and communism" were the fatal flaw in the President's condemnation o' cuba and the support for the protesters? go figure. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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23 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Sure, if they decide to by themselves.  And it's not as if the situation in Cuba is purely in isolation.  That said, I find the US still having some issue with Cuba after all these years is pretty funny.

I use to think it was time for the US to bury the hatchet with Cuba which is why I supported the initial Obama peace efforts

But the people of Cuba didnt benefit  from it  and still are denied basic human rights. I wish it was over as well but unfortunately  its not :shrugz:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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