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I beat the game as a barb rogue on turn based normal difficulty was too easy honestly, probably going to go back in on veteran real time, after I finish my veteran run on poe1

 

been cooking up a rogue ranger build in my head, kind of a combination of the ideal ranged attacker I wanted from poe 1 when I played it the first time

 

thoughts on rogue rangers?

driving flight, just sit back and watch everything get destroyed

 

 

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They are good. But the best ranged auto-attacker is probably Ranger/Ascendant or Ranger/Helwalker with Frostseeker.

I also had great success with Berserker/Streetfighter using Essence Interrupter (insane attack speed). But you have to micro your health a lot so i maybe doesn't fit that well.

Troubadour/Streetfighter with Red Hand (using upgraded Whisps to flank yourself and using Gunner, Maia's armor, Acina's Tricorn, Sure Handed Ila + Mith Fyr) is also very nice. But also a lot of setup needed. 

Frostseeker with Ranger/Helwalker needs very little micro and does tremendous damage (even better with Community Patch because it lets Turning Wheel work for ranged attacks again).

A cheesy build is Ranger/Monk or /Cipher or even single class with enough Arcana to cast Avenging Storm - and then using Hand Mortar. The Blinding Smoke of Hand Mortar triggers Avenging Storm. It destroys mobs instantly - but is not that great against single targets. Frostseker it both good against single targets and groups. 

Edited by Boeroer
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Boeroer, which of the hand mortars and what upgrades provide the "best damage" (against groups obviously)? I've been struggling to assess the impact of the "Chain Shot" upgrade on Fire in the hole, since the bounce-explosion seems to be a reduced damage (maybe exactly as driving flight?).

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In TB, for single target damage, the best weapon is Dragon's Dowry which delivers solid steady damage with great penetration and accuracy (modal activated, Ring of Focused Flame, etc). A rogue can do huge damage if he can apply the bonuses from Sneak Attack/Death Blows. For the second class things are less obvious - the ranger can damage a second target, while a chanter has buffs, lashes, etc which improve your single target damage even further, beside other things.

A rogue/helwalker with the Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff and instruments of Pain can deal probably the highest single target damage from long range but it's available very late.

For rangers specifically the best weapon is Frostseeker which deals great damage if you have high accuracy. Like Boeroer explained, the best are the ranger/ascendant and the ranger/helwalker which can achieve very high accuracy.

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I suppose with the proper AI script set up, it's possible to have an auto-attacker doing more than just attacking.

I personally love Maia as Guhawk since there's no down side to her spec, but the title of laziest auto-attacker goes to Ranger/Helwalker as Boeroer suggested. I'm currently giving my character a pause due to how easily it overwhelms encounters.

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A beguiler / ghostheart with the right scripts can be left on autopilot and will carry your party through most encounters on PotD with very little trouble. Do you like megacrits? Do you like instangibs? Of course you do! Turn your enemies into a fine red mist today! 

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Damn I missed that it's for turn based. That changes stuff a bit and makes arquebuses (+modal) quite viable. :blush: Just need some backup against pierce immune foes. 

7 hours ago, Bosmer said:

Boeroer, which of the hand mortars and what upgrades provide the "best damage" (against groups obviously)? I've been struggling to assess the impact of the "Chain Shot" upgrade on Fire in the hole, since the bounce-explosion seems to be a reduced damage (maybe exactly as driving flight?).

If we only look at the weapons themselves, Fire in the Hole does more damage than Hand Mortar. Just because Chain Shot grants a bounce (AoE included). The bounce damage will be reduced (like nearly all bounces) and also there's the general dmg reduction from Chain Shot, but against mobs it's still better than no bounce.  
Also it's great with stuff like Gambit and Stunning Surge bc. it makes sure you almost always get the full refund when aiming at multiple enemies. It's also great with Clear Out, Whirling Strikes and Heart of Fury. Twinned Shot, too. Combusting Wounds: also great with it.

If we take some very special abilities into account - mostly Avenging Storm and Resonant Touch - Hand Mortar will be better with the help of Blinding Smoke. Not only does that unlock Deathblows at range - but it also counts as weapon hits when we look at Avenging Storm and Resonant Touch(!). If those can be used it makes it extremely good against groups of enemies. Hand Mortar's Blinding Smoke + Resonant Touch is the reason why I recommend SC Mortar Monk so much. But beware: with Community Patch both Resonant Touch as well as Avenging Storm got "fixed" so that they are not that abusable with Blinding Smoke anymore. With CP installed I would say Fire in the Hole is the better option in most cases. Blinding Smoke still unlocks Deathblows though, so still nice to have.  

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9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Damn I missed that it's for turn based. That changes stuff a bit and makes arquebuses (+modal) quite viable. :blush: Just need some backup against pierce immune foes. 

If we only look at the weapons themselves, Fire in the Hole does more damage than Hand Mortar. Just because Chain Shot grants a bounce (AoE included). The bounce damage will be reduced (like nearly all bounces) and also there's the general dmg reduction from Chain Shot, but against mobs it's still better than no bounce.  
Also it's great with stuff like Gambit and Stunning Surge bc. it makes sure you almost always get the full refund when aiming at multiple enemies. It's also great with Clear Out, Whirling Strikes and Heart of Fury. Twinned Shot, too. Combusting Wounds: also great with it.

If we take some very special abilities into account - mostly Avenging Storm and Resonant Touch - Hand Mortar will be better with the help of Blinding Smoke. Not only does that unlock Deathblows at range - but it also counts as weapon hits when we look at Avenging Storm and Resonant Touch(!). If those can be used it makes it extremely good against groups of enemies. Hand Mortar's Blinding Smoke + Resonant Touch is the reason why I recommend SC Mortar Monk so much. But beware: with Community Patch both Resonant Touch as well as Avenging Storm got "fixed" so that they are not that abusable with Blinding Smoke anymore. With CP installed I would say Fire in the Hole is the better option in most cases. Blinding Smoke still unlocks Deathblows though, so still nice to have.  

I saw your watershapers focus build ranger rogue and something like that was kind of the idea

 

it looks like I'd blow through the entire game in about 3 hours though, god forbid I had a party of 5

 

btw it's not for turn based I just felt like giving the fine people here some backstory, I'll probably go real time veteran or potd

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4 hours ago, The Mole said:

I saw your watershapers focus build ranger rogue and something like that was kind of the idea

That was fun - but Ondra's Wave (the enchantmet that lead to that absurd amount of damage) got nerfed a bit so it's not as wild anymore. 

If you still want to try Watershaper's Focus: I really like to use an Arcane Archer with it because the Imbue shots will proc with every bounce. And WSF + Driving Flight = shot + bounce + bounce. So if you use Imbue:Eora you'll proc 3 simultaneous Pull of Eora which will such everything in with stellar accuracy. Then shoot with more damaging stuff. An Arcane Archer/Rogue could use Debilitating Strike, an Arcane Archer/Helwalker could use Stunning Surge... 

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21 hours ago, Kaylon said:

In TB, for single target damage, the best weapon is Dragon's Dowry which delivers solid steady damage with great penetration and accuracy (modal activated, Ring of Focused Flame, etc). A rogue can do huge damage if he can apply the bonuses from Sneak Attack/Death Blows. For the second class things are less obvious - the ranger can damage a second target, while a chanter has buffs, lashes, etc which improve your single target damage even further, beside other things.

I think Red Hand with the modal and its 2 attacks still beats it quite handily, unless you're considering backstabs from stealth.

Red Hand is the only weapon I've used that could attack twice per round in Turn Based mode (and for example, Concussive Tranquilize 2 enemies/one enemy twice in a single round). The 2nd attack was not immediate, but always happened in the same round.

Edited by Haplok
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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't interpret Backstabs from stealth as "auto attacks" - so you might have a point. ;)

I didn't know that Red Hand can fire twice per round due to my lack of experience in TB mode. Which is obviously pretty sweet (firing twice per round I mean, not that I have no xp in TB mode...)

Edited by Boeroer

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3 minutes ago, Haplok said:

I think Red Hand with the modal and its 2 attacks still beats it quite handily, unless you're considering backstabs from stealth.

Red Hand is the only weapon I've used that could attack twice per round in Turn Based mode (and for example, Concussive Tranquilize 2 enemies/one enemy twice in a single round). The 2nd attack was not immediate, but always happened in the same round.

The Red Hand never attacked twice per round, it does a normal attack and the next has just 0 initiative. No recovery is not free action.

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I just loaded up Deadfire and switched to TB mode - and it seems that indeed the Red Hand doesn't enable you to attack twice per round.

Edited by Boeroer

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Posted (edited)

Well, something with my installation then? But I have nothing special apart from Community Patch, really.

In my game, Maia with Red Hand was definitely getting her turns twice as often as other party members.

Edited by Haplok
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18 hours ago, The Berathian said:

A beguiler / ghostheart with the right scripts can be left on autopilot and will carry your party through most encounters on PotD with very little trouble. Do you like megacrits? Do you like instangibs? Of course you do! Turn your enemies into a fine red mist today! 

A Cipher summoning a soul is literally a Stand attack...

That said, do you have a build for this combo?

On 5/3/2021 at 5:33 PM, Kaylon said:

In TB, for single target damage, the best weapon is Dragon's Dowry which delivers solid steady damage with great penetration and accuracy (modal activated, Ring of Focused Flame, etc). A rogue can do huge damage if he can apply the bonuses from Sneak Attack/Death Blows. For the second class things are less obvious - the ranger can damage a second target, while a chanter has buffs, lashes, etc which improve your single target damage even further, beside other things.

It's very useful at sniping down totems from stealth. I attack from so far that enemies would gather around the damaged totem but would never realize you're there.

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2 hours ago, Haplok said:

Well, something with my installation then? But I have nothing special apart from Community Patch, really.

In my game, Maia with Red Hand was definitely getting her turns twice as often as other party members.

Maybe you just remember it that way because first you will shoot late in the round - and then you will be the first to shoot in the next round. It can feel like two shots in a turn because nobody else takes action in between.
But after each shot your action point is gone - and thus there's no way to shoot twice in one turn I think.

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Only... I'm pretty sure that's not what was happening.

I've read before that Red Hand "dual shot" doesn't work in TB and almost gave up on it. But when I tried, I was quite astonished to see it actually worked (just not consecutively, its like getting 2 separate turns in 1 round).

 

But there were other irregularities also. Like I've read action speed mattered on casters, since they could "slip" to the next round if they were too slow/were casting long cast time spells. Only I've never experienced that. All casts would resolve at the end of the round the cast was started. Next round the spell would tick again (if not instant) and the caster could take another action.

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2 hours ago, Griffonheart said:

That said, do you have a build for this combo?

I do. Sorta. It's not very complicated. Take most of the echo skills and use the AI scripts to cast them on your pet. Use all of the right cipher deception and mind skills. Soul shock will be your bread and butter. Soul shock and valorous echos should be your two level one skills. Ignore most of your ranger skills. Set up AI to summon your pet. Marked prey will give you the accuracy you need. I'm not exactly awake. So I am probably doing a terrible job at this. 

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Okay, weird.

I tested again and I confirm, no double turns with Red Hand. Wonder if it might have worked differently before. Or was I simply mistaken.

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One nice auto attack build I used involves Saint Omaku's Mercy/Veilpiercer. These weapons have an upgrade that gives you a 50% chance to ignore recovery when you crit. You can stack +crit effects and accuracy to get a very high crit rate. With ranger's driving flight you'll basically attack twice, so you will have a very high chance to get to ignore recovery. I like multiclassing with devoted for this (intuitive adds hit to crit and devoted increases crit damage).

Its not unreasonable to have >75% chance to crit, which would mean that you have a 60% chance to ignore recovery entirely, and at 100% chance to crit you'd ignore recovery 75% of the time. Against larger groups of enemies you can also switch to frostseeker.

It doesnt require a lot of active ability usage, although you probably want to mark at the start and accurate wounding shot would be preferred over auto-attacking. But these things are optional. 

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Yes, that's a fun setup. Also because the increased PEN of St. Omaku's Mercy stacks with Devoted's PEN. +3 PEN (+4 with Ring of the Marksman) on a dual dmg weapon is great imo. And Galawain's Harry makes the -10% action speed way less punishing. 

I also tried it with Berserker/Ranger (PEN, higher attack speed, Blood Thirst etc.) in order to profit from Saint's Grace more (bc. self damage). Also nice.

Even Monk/Ranger worked well. Enduring Dance + Thunderous Blows + Lightning Strikes was cool, too.

Chanter/Ranger with Killers (to get the 25% crit conversion) + Sure Handed Ila etc. was a little too much fuzz for my taste. 

All in all I think Devoted/Ranger is the most "hands-off" approach and works nicely with very little interference and also nicely runs on AI.

 

 

Edited by Boeroer

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On 5/4/2021 at 9:35 PM, The Berathian said:

I do. Sorta. It's not very complicated. Take most of the echo skills and use the AI scripts to cast them on your pet. Use all of the right cipher deception and mind skills. Soul shock will be your bread and butter. Soul shock and valorous echos should be your two level one skills. Ignore most of your ranger skills. Set up AI to summon your pet. Marked prey will give you the accuracy you need. I'm not exactly awake. So I am probably doing a terrible job at this. 

So the only reason using Ghostheart is because the pet cannot be engaged, therefore survive better?

Ignoring most of the Ranger skills including the pet-buffing ones?

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One reason is there's no drawback when your AC gets knocked out - because it's a summon. You won't suffer Bonded Grief and can just summon it again (for 1 Bond).
Also cool: just dropping your Animal Companion behind sombody - or in places a normal AC couldn't reach easily.

Drawbacks: you can't have AC + summons. Your AC has a duration and also the act of summoning costs a bit time and a bit of resources. Also your AC can get dispelled (because it's a spirit). But that rarely happens (if ever).

Edited by Boeroer
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2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

One reason is there's no drawback when your AC gets knocked out - because it's a summon. You won't suffer Bonded Grief and can just summon it again (for 1 Bond).
Also cool: just dropping your Animal Companion behind sombody - or in places a normal AC couldn't reach easily.

Drawbacks: you can't have AC + summons. Your AC has a duration and also the act of summoning costs a bit time and a bit of resources. Also your AC can get dispelled (because it's a spirit). But that rarely happens (if ever).

Thank you. Though it's a summon, it still take in all the ranger skill bonus, yes? Like Merciless Companion.

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