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The all things Political topic -In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie


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10 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Can this be proven beyond any doubt that there was an intent to do harm? Seems he chose less excessive form of apperhantion, and it did not look from a vid, like he was intending to do harm. There was no excessive force used, no repeated voilent physical actions, and not even verbal ones? There was a prolonged restraint, but there was no pressure to neck and the technique was apporved at that given time. 

am suspecting most reasonable people will not view similar to dp.

"Or causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designation to receive protection under the order."

were custodial and the cops had a duty to floyd.

the restraint o' floyd did harm. period. is not actual worth arguing that point. 

watch video and have reasonable people decide that at no point during the +9 minutes chauvin understood his restraint were harmful? was police use o' force reasonable? was reasonable for entire +9 minutes. particular during the point in time when floyd became unresponsive and other cops on site expressed concern regarding floyd safety, how convincing is the argument that chauvin were unaware o' harm? over the course o' +9 minutes o' video, it becomes increasing difficult to believe the defense. even if you believe the initial use o' force were justified, and am suspecting many jurors would, +9 minutes makes... problematic.

keep in mind this case is a bit different than most in that chauvin's superiors from his own department were put on the witness stand and they did not support the chauvin defense portrayal of events. no blue line o' silence.

back in march, the judge reinstated the 3rd degree charge against chauvin. 3rd degree murder is what you described earlier when you suggested chauvin actions didn't look like murder.

2nd degree murder became much more difficult for the defense when minnesota police and training witnesses identified that chauvin's actions were unreasonable and not following policy, and the reason they were not ok from a policy pov is the likelihood to cause serious harm.

but...

jurors do not like to convict cops. am thinking a majority o' jurors, based on evidence so far, will see chauvin as guilty o' at least 3rd and probable second degree, but you need unanimous for criminal. am not in the court and am not seeing the jurors. assume jurors is being logical and rational is not smart. jurors liked Gromnir, so we should like jurors. nope. the reasons jurors make their descions rare is what you expect and chances are will have less to do with the evidence you is hearing 'bout on tv.

the defendant looked shifty or uncomfortable. the defendant looked like a good christian. the judge were overharsh. the assisstant da were mean (is a problem particular if is a woman prosecutor and there is older women jurors, 'cause older women is particular harsh when judging younger women.) etc.

whatever is final decision, there is a good chance the real reasons acquittal or conviction won't be based on what you are hearing from news regarding evidence. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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39 minutes ago, Raithe said:

@ShadySandsposted a similar story... were march or april 2020... maybe? am getting old and maybe our memory for dates is getting fuzzier.

in 2015 (and 2020) we couldn't figure out why anybody would object to a private business owner taking less income to guarantee his employees got more. hope the happier employees would be more efficient and less likely to quit?  am suspecting employee dissatisfaction and turnover is not low in the credit card processing biz. weren't government forcing dan price to take less in personal compensation, so why would fox business pundits or rush limbaugh see as problematic? we were admitted baffled by the venom from a few so-called conservatives.

still don't get the over dramatic angst.

HA! Good Fun!

ps even if you thought dan price were wrong and doomed to fail, wouldn't you be hopeful he succeeded? is not much down side to success as such a win at least suggests some o' the preconceptions 'bout the costs o' maintaining a business dependent on employees who tend to suffer high turnover rates is less absolute than many believe. 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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9 hours ago, Gorth said:

Like the military coup in Myanmar that just coincided with demonstrators making life difficult for Chinese companies in Myanmar?

Most indications are that the Chinese were if anything outright annoyed by the coup in Burma, and certainly didn't orchestrate it or similar. The civilian government was not, after all, particularly pro west and was being regularly criticised for things like ethnic cleansing by them. From China's pov replacing the pro China government with another pro China government with added low grade civil war and bad PR with the general population is a big net loss, not a net gain. A continuing civilian administration would still have been strongly pro China.

The main reason the coup happened was how badly military backed politicians did in the previous election. Losing an election outright when you get to appoint ~25% of members, and losing worse than you did last time made it clear that permanent loss of military influence was only a matter of time under a democracy despite relations being pretty decent otherwise.

4 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

What can US and Western countries do, if you will have an effective trade union from China and Russia, through some old soviet republics, include Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran nd reach to Syria?  What will happen, if that will also get connected to Africa through pipelines? 

China's demise is that they are pushing unnecessarily Phillipines and India. But those two, with their current govs are hardly reliable partbers for US, Australia and other "western" countries.

Geography is awful for China exporting via land. It's more expensive than shipping, requires expensive infrastructure and expensive maintenance of that infrastructure and is literally under snow/ ice for six months of the year. It's also a very long way away from the industrial heartland of China's eastern seaboard so you'd have to transport it all across China which itself is a huge country.

That's why they're pushing the Philippines. The various China Seas are all ringed by US aligned countries' islands, which makes a blockade easy. You don't even need many ships for it, certainly not ships kept expensively and semi permanently on station. Knock a hole in the ring and it makes a blockade more difficult and expensive, and put in forward bases close enough- like on built up artificial island in the Paracels etc- and you can project enough force far enough to make it difficult too.

Pushing India was pretty stupid though, and was almost certainly a stunt for internal consumption that backfired. Especially since Xi and Modi are pretty similar, it wasn't even a lack of empathy from Xi- ie considering how India would 'feel'- it was a lack of considering what he himself would do in response if attacked.

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Yeah Duterte is in a tough spot, I kinda get the impression that he wants closer ties to China but nationalist rejection by the population and U.S. pressure to stay doggedly neutral is kinda shaping his policies, which is kind of a sad sight to see from such an opinionated firebrand like Duterte.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-china-southchinasea-idUSKBN2BS0EY

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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16 hours ago, rjshae said:

The charge is 2nd degree unintentional murder, so there's no need to prove intent to murder. At a minimum it is involuntary manslaughter, but that charge may not apply for a police officer. The challenge for the jury will be determining whether there was intent to do harm. To me it doesn't look good.

Rjshae I have been meaning to  follow-up with you on an important discussion we were having on the impact of BLM protests that were allowed to go in certain cities for months

Just to summarize my concern so I dont waste your time, Seattle was one of the cities I thought had decided to take  a ostensibly imprudent  liberal or conciliatory stance to dealing with the BLM protests and I remember had actually allowed activists to occupy a police station !!! I also realize Seattle is a very understanding and reasonable place but  its not  personally something I  can understand. Because for me when you allow your police stations to be abandoned you it sends a signal that the rule of law and order is no longer applicable 

But I accept that is not why they did it and they felt this was somehow a good way to placate the activists. But end of the day the outcome of this is what is the real impact to citizens who live their so how are things in Seattle now....do you feel safe, are the police respected more and what is the general feeling of citizens towards what happened ?

So what I am getting at is did that decision change anything in a negative way ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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One things that is raising a few eyebrows is that Minnesota decided it was worth using government funds to put up concrete barriers and fences around Potter's house...

 

It's got to be so enjoyable for the neighbours in that suburb...

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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54 minutes ago, Raithe said:

One things that is raising a few eyebrows is that Minnesota decided it was worth using government funds to put up concrete barriers and fences around Potter's house...

 

It's got to be so enjoyable for the neighbours in that suburb...

Probably wouldn't be needed, if people would act like human beings instead of a rabid rioting mob

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4 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

For some people, being vegan is like a religion. They'll try to adapt reality to fit the picture in their heads. Sometimes their (idealists, religious nutcases, fanatics, whatever) arguments are so far fetched you have to facepalm. That being said, there is also such a thing as too much cheese (unless you're Scandinavian like me and very much lactose tolerant).

 

If the kids get a healthy and balanced daily meal, screw peoples ideological sensitivities.

 

Just wait until she tries to ban Chocolate in the UK, that stuff being both non-white (mostly) and dairy filled it should be the next to go!

 

Edit: When I was a kid, the health worker/nurse at the school had as a task to ensure that all the kids drank at least 0.75 liter of milk at home per day. A typical household with 2-3 kids would easily consume 5+ liter of milk every day. Telling Scandinavians that they have to lay off milk, cheese and chocolate would be like tell south east Asians that they had to lay off the rice.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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They also threw out a stat of 65% of people being lactose intolerant, which I think is rubbish. School children should have a pretty decent tolerance for lactose. As I understand it, most of us become less tolerant as we age. That being said, avoiding all the highly processed crap would be great.

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25 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

They also threw out a stat of 65% of people being lactose intolerant, which I think is rubbish. School children should have a pretty decent tolerance for lactose. As I understand it, most of us become less tolerant as we age. That being said, avoiding all the highly processed crap would be great.

I became lactose intolerant after about age 50, and thereafter switched to products such as almond milk. But you can get lactose-free milk pretty readily now so I buy that.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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40 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

They also threw out a stat of 65% of people being lactose intolerant, which I think is rubbish. School children should have a pretty decent tolerance for lactose. As I understand it, most of us become less tolerant as we age. That being said, avoiding all the highly processed crap would be great.

our lactose intolerance is o' the don't be a jackarse variety. am much aware that if we have a bacon, egg, spinach and cheese frittata for breakfast, cheese enchiladas for lunch and then baked mac n' cheese for dinner, there is a good chance we will pay for our overindulgence. am knowing there is people who can drive past dairy cows at 55mph and have their intestines torque, but such is not the case for us. all we need do is be reasonable with cheese and sour cream and am able to avoid being punished. nevertheless, we frequent have lactose intolerance issues, proving once again that Gromnir is a jackarse. 

which is kinda same situation we have with most foods. am finding that as much as we love red meat, we can't eat too much. broccoli and brussel sprouts? Gromnir won't be the only one suffering if we eat too much o' the sprouts. beans. bread. rice. apples. artichokes... dear lord, am still recalling our artichoke heart dip nightmare o' 1995. whatever. is a threshold for most foods beyond which we become "intolerant."

...

chicken is an exception. we seem to be able to eat chicken multiple times a day for weeks on end w/o ever having a reaction other than comic ennui. too bad. particular as am not a huge fan o' chicken breasts, we kinda wish we had a better excuse to avoid boneless and skinless chicken breasts. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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47 minutes ago, Raithe said:

 

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Probably has something to do with the fact, you had an officer trapped and covering a lot of the space?

I'd be hesitant to open fire, if there is a high chance i might hit a fellow officer. 

Again, this is also only a snippet of a situation (and easy to provoke an insta outrage). I'd love to see body cams and dash cams before making a judgement. 

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And all over not wanting to wear a mask, heh

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Probably has something to do with the fact, you had an officer trapped and covering a lot of the space?

I'd be hesitant to open fire, if there is a high chance i might hit a fellow officer. 

Again, this is also only a snippet of a situation (and easy to provoke an insta outrage). I'd love to see body cams and dash cams before making a judgement. 

Sure, but they didn't kill him once he was in custody either. At least, not yet. I guess there is still time.

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13 minutes ago, Malcador said:

And all over not wanting to wear a mask, heh

first masks. next thing you know, they are taking your guns.

worst part is, 1/3rd o' fox viewers (and possible a few obsidian boardies) is gonna see the chucklehead as a hero for standing up for his rights.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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“I need to drive my two-year-old to day-care tomorrow morning. To ensure we arrive alive, we won't take public transit (Oscar Grant). I removed all air fresheners from the vehicle and double-checked my registration status (Daunte Wright), and ensured my license plates were visible (Lt. Caron Nazario). I will be careful to follow all traffic rules (Philando Castille), signal every turn (Sandra Bland), keep the radio volume low (Jordan Davis), and won't stop at a fast food chain for a meal (Rayshard Brooks). I'm too afraid to pray (Rev. Clementa C. Pickney) so I just hope the car won't break down (Corey Jones).


When my wife picks him up at the end of the day, I'll remind her not to dance (Elijah McClain), stop to play in a park (Tamir Rice), patronize the local convenience store for snacks (Trayvon Martin), or walk around the neighbourhood (Mike Brown). Once they are home, we won't stand in our backyard (Stephon Clark), eat ice cream on the couch (Botham Jean), or play any video games (Atatiana Jefferson).

After my wife and I tuck him into bed around 7:30pm, neither of us will leave the house to go to Walmart (John Crawford) or to the gym (Tshyrand Oates) or on a jog (Ahmaud Arbery). We won't even walk to see the birds (Christian Cooper). We'll just sit and try not to breathe (George Floyd) and not to sleep (Breonna Taylor)."

Author unknown

 

 

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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For playing in park, the author forgot to mention to not give her a replica gun to play with.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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