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Anime: Emotions on a Rollercoaster


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3 hours ago, majestic said:

For anyone that's interested:

Not sure which one that is, but 3 hours? Damn, that's some musical. :p

Of course it turns out to be a Dream/SuperS adaptation. Le Sigh

Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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Sailor Stars 183-185

These were all monster of the week episodes, and they were all funny.

First, Usagi and Minako get into a splash fight at a lake and launch attacks at each other like "Typhoon" and "Hurricane". The Three Lights are there and Rei has a cousin who thinks everything is a failure, but the real gag is Seiya trying to prank the girls by pretending to be a monster only for a real monster to beat him to the punch.

The second one has a situation where Usagi and Seiya end up alone in her bedroom, only to be joined by Chibi-Chibi, then the inner Sailors, then the other Sailor Starlights, then the Sailor Lesbians, and TV show, and then Sailor Aluminum Siren who turns someone into a monster. They can't actually fight because of how cramped the room is, and the monster is irked at having to listen to four different introductions.

Finally the serious Three Light/Starlight whose name I can't remember is getting antsy about finding a princess and ends up doing a Make a Wish thing for a sick kid.

These are all the somewhat forgettable but fun filler we got in the first three seasons and is good to watch for laughs. I have no idea what is up with Chibi-Chibi and she seems too nice to be Usagi or Chibi-Usa's kid, dunno what is going to happen here. There was also something else that is more spoiler than what I've posted

Usagi has a flashback when thinking of Mamo-chan where a cart at the airport went by really fast. I'm thinking something happened to Mamoru at the airport but Usagi was too distracted to notice. It would explain why he hasn't answered any of her letters.

 

Lmao forum software chomped the post

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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6 hours ago, majestic said:

I keep staring at that picture of the Sailor Moon musical. I think I need to check if at least one of them is watchable in full somewhere, ideally with subs. I wasn't overly impressed with the singing in the clip of that show that I found on YouTube earlier, but those costumes are just amazing. :p

 

SU/SM:
 

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You've mentioned before that a part of the Steven Universe fandom wanted Steven to go on a murderous rampage. The same sort of people infest the comment section of the final episode uploads, like the one in my post. Not sure how one can watch Steven Universe and the Sailor Moon 90ies anime and want everyone to go on killing sprees.

One even said you didn't redeem Diablo in Diablo either. Sure, same thing.

 

 

 

Spoiler

All I can guess is that it's people who don't have very good control over their emotions, or people who don't understand how character arcs work, or people who just want a different ending just for the sake of being different from previous story arc resolutions and subverting their expectations - maybe all three. Villains who get under your skin or whom you feel outraged at on behalf of your heroes...are a good thing, people - that means they're good villains. It's okay to have momentary thoughts that are basically "man, this villain is straight up evil and I'm sick and tired of their crap, I wish [character] would just kill them!" - but the moment you actually stop to consider what that would portend for the one doing the killing, you should realize that wait, no, actually that would be incredibly messed up, and hey, this is still relatively a children's show and our main character is supposed to be the hero that brings everyone else together. Dark and subverting resolutions are more appropriate in some other types of shows, and also in some cases even in these shows - but NOT where it would mean your hero is now a killer and just having that be perfectly cool within the framing of the show. Especially if in every single instance up to this moment, they have consistently strove to be better - kinder and more just - than their enemies.

SU spoilers:

Spoiler

Like guys, do you not remember the whole Bismuth incident, and how Steven resolved to never do that which Homeworld did, and literally threw away that which would've allowed him to kill indiscriminately? And then immediately had it thrown back in his face when he learned that his mother was a murderer, and had to grapple with what that meant for him and what he should be willing to do and how he should feel about her? That was like, a huge part of his character arc. Y'all want all of that just thrown away for the sake of SUBVERTING YOUR EXPECTATIONS, or because you're MAD AT THE VILLAIN, whose job it is to BE THE VILLAIN and someone that your main character struggles against? Just implode your main character's personality and guiding principals and character growth for either of those? okay.jpeg

 

@Musical: I just can't do it. Live-action musicals are death - I just can't do it, :p.

@ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP

Spoiler

Uh...didn't Mamoru's plane like...explode or get attacked in some way back in episode 7 or something? Am I imagining that? I thought that was something that happened.

 

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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As we don't have a manga thread, nor did I read this particular manga, I'll just post it here. Attack on Titan ended and the last chapter was translated. What a **** show the thread is for that last chapter, it seems to have been particularly bad. Apparently the author decided to change the ending after watching the Marvel movies...

I'll borrow a post from that thread. "Manga being ruined by their endings. Name a more iconic duo"

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I hear it's Brian Herbert tier.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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You should, you must suffer as I have.  But I've never read or watched Attack on Titan, but it does seem everyone's raging about it

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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9 minutes ago, Malcador said:

You should, you must suffer as I have.  But I've never read or watched Attack on Titan, but it does seem everyone's raging about it

I tried, but I didn't even get to the Brian Herbert / Sanderson books. Children of Dune already dragged at parts, God Emperor of Dune was... yeah, sure... and Heretics just... no. Nope.

Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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16 minutes ago, Malcador said:

You should, you must suffer as I have.  But I've never read or watched Attack on Titan, but it does seem everyone's raging about it

I read the originals. I think I tried Brian's book but left it a couple of chapters in. Does his sequel start with Duncan's POV, when they clone/revive him? Either way that is where Ieft it at. As for Attack on Titan I tried watching the anime when it came out, but it really wasn't my coup of tea, plus that was a period where I stopped watching most new anime series.

8 minutes ago, majestic said:

I tried, but I didn't even get to the Brian Herbert / Sanderson books. Children of Dune already dragged at parts, God Emperor of Dune was... yeah, sure... and Heretics just... no. Nope.

Sanderson books?

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1 minute ago, Sarex said:

I read the originals. I think I tried Brian's book but left it a couple of chapters in. Does his sequel start with Duncan's POV, when they clone/revive him? Either way that is where Ieft it at. As for Attack on Titan I tried watching the anime when it came out, but it really wasn't my coup of tea, plus that was a period where I stopped watching most new anime series.

Sanderson books?

Ah, got that mixed up, sorry. That was Anderson, not Sanderson. xD

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

All I can guess is that it's people who don't have very good control over their emotions, or people who don't understand how character arcs work, or people who just want a different ending just for the sake of being different from previous story arc resolutions and subverting their expectations - maybe all three. Villains who get under your skin or whom you feel outraged at on behalf of your heroes...are a good thing, people - that means they're good villains. It's okay to have momentary thoughts that are basically "man, this villain is straight up evil and I'm sick and tired of their crap, I wish [character] would just kill them!" - but the moment you actually stop to consider what that would portend for the one doing the killing, you should realize that wait, no, actually that would be incredibly messed up, and hey, this is still relatively a children's show and our main character is supposed to be the hero that brings everyone else together. Dark and subverting resolutions are more appropriate in some other types of shows, and also in some cases even in these shows - but NOT where it would mean your hero is now a killer and just having that be perfectly cool within the framing of the show. Especially if in every single instance up to this moment, they have consistently strove to be better - kinder and more just - than their enemies.

SU spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Like guys, do you not remember the whole Bismuth incident, and how Steven resolved to never do that which Homeworld did, and literally threw away that which would've allowed him to kill indiscriminately? And then immediately had it thrown back in his face when he learned that his mother was a murderer, and had to grapple with what that meant for him and what he should be willing to do and how he should feel about her? That was like, a huge part of his character arc. Y'all want all of that just thrown away for the sake of SUBVERTING YOUR EXPECTATIONS, or because you're MAD AT THE VILLAIN, whose job it is to BE THE VILLAIN and someone that your main character struggles against? Just implode your main character's personality and guiding principals and character growth for either of those? okay.jpeg

 

@Musical: I just can't do it. Live-action musicals are death - I just can't do it, :p.

@ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP

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Uh...didn't Mamoru's plane like...explode or get attacked in some way back in episode 7 or something? Am I imagining that? I thought that was something that happened.

 

Man, the forum just ate another one of my posts. For crying out loud, but at least it was a short one.

Spoilers!

Spoiler

Yes, Mamoru's plane gets attacked by the same yellow balls that the villains use to extract star seeds, and the scene immediately cuts to the Three Lights ominously saying that a shine (or light) just went out.

 

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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1 hour ago, Sarex said:

As we don't have a manga thread, nor did I read this particular manga, I'll just post it here. Attack on Titan ended and the last chapter was translated. What a **** show the thread is for that last chapter, it seems to have been particularly bad. Apparently the author decided to change the ending after watching the Marvel movies...

I'll borrow a post from that thread. "Manga being ruined by their endings. Name a more iconic duo"

I guess fans of Berserk really are lucky it will never be finished.

23 minutes ago, majestic said:

Man, the forum just ate another one of my posts. For crying out loud, but at least it was a short one.

Spoilers!

  Hide contents

Yes, Mamoru's plane gets attacked by the same yellow balls that the villains use to extract star seeds, and the scene immediately cuts to the Three Lights ominously saying that a shine (or light) just went out.

 

The software is hungrier than usual.

I rewatched it on my lunchbreak and I'm not sure how I missed that. I wonder if Mamoru is dead or is being.....used by Galaxia?

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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22 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

I guess fans of Berserk really are lucky it will never be finished.

That's what I was thinking too...

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5 minutes ago, Sarex said:

That's what I was thinking too...

As frustrating as maybe 3 chapters a year is, I guess Guts being stuck on an Island or glimpses of Falconia are better than whatever happened in AoT.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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23 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

As frustrating as maybe 3 chapters a year is, I guess Guts being stuck on an Island or glimpses of Falconia are better than whatever happened in AoT.

Tbh, compared to the boat the story is flying right now. I started reading it before the ****ing boat....

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29 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Tbh, compared to the boat the story is flying right now. I started reading it before the ****ing boat....

I left at the start of the boat and came back after it finished. It was nice to read through the story and avoid being stuck with pirates or discount Cthullu for years.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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On 4/7/2021 at 5:17 PM, majestic said:

  Yay, I corrupted someone. How much did you read, or just the other Sailor Moon one?

I read the first 20 or so. Then I went to the parody section to see if there were more about Sailor Moon.

 

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Of course it turns out to be a Dream/SuperS adaptation. Le Sigh

I checked some parts randomly and the three creeps are there.

 

6 hours ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

Sailor Stars 183-185

 

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These were all monster of the week episodes, and they were all funny.

First, Usagi and Minako get into a splash fight at a lake and launch attacks at each other like "Typhoon" and "Hurricane". The Three Lights are there and Rei has a cousin who thinks everything is a failure, but the real gag is Seiya trying to prank the girls by pretending to be a monster only for a real monster to beat him to the punch.

The second one has a situation where Usagi and Seiya end up alone in her bedroom, only to be joined by Chibi-Chibi, then the inner Sailors, then the other Sailor Starlights, then the Sailor Lesbians, and TV show, and then Sailor Aluminum Siren who turns someone into a monster. They can't actually fight because of how cramped the room is, and the monster is irked at having to listen to four different introductions.

Finally the serious Three Light/Starlight whose name I can't remember is getting antsy about finding a princess and ends up doing a Make a Wish thing for a sick kid.

These are all the somewhat forgettable but fun filler we got in the first three seasons and is good to watch for laughs. I have no idea what is up with Chibi-Chibi and she seems too nice to be Usagi or Chibi-Usa's kid, dunno what is going to happen here. There was also something else that is more spoiler than what I've posted

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Usagi has a flashback when thinking of Mamo-chan where a cart at the airport went by really fast. I'm thinking something happened to Mamoru at the airport but Usagi was too distracted to notice. It would explain why he hasn't answered any of her letters.

 

 

Lmao forum software chomped the post

 

Very funny episodes indeed. The second one here is one of the funniest in the entire series.

Spoiler

Imagine if Usagi's parents still existed and appeared right after the battle. They would find a tv crew and lots of people dressed in a BDSM style. They would think Usagi was shooting a porn video. 🤣

 

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

As we don't have a manga thread, nor did I read this particular manga, I'll just post it here. Attack on Titan ended and the last chapter was translated. What a **** show the thread is for that last chapter, it seems to have been particularly bad. Apparently the author decided to change the ending after watching the Marvel movies...

I'll borrow a post from that thread. "Manga being ruined by their endings. Name a more iconic duo"

Then the question is: will it surpass the champion of bad endings, Game of Thrones?

 

4 hours ago, majestic said:

Man, the forum just ate another one of my posts. For crying out loud, but at least it was a short one.

Spoilers!

  Hide contents

Yes, Mamoru's plane gets attacked by the same yellow balls that the villains use to extract star seeds, and the scene immediately cuts to the Three Lights ominously saying that a shine (or light) just went out.

 

@ArtistFormerlyKnownasKPI didn't notice it too.

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5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

 

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All I can guess is that it's people who don't have very good control over their emotions, or people who don't understand how character arcs work, or people who just want a different ending just for the sake of being different from previous story arc resolutions and subverting their expectations - maybe all three. Villains who get under your skin or whom you feel outraged at on behalf of your heroes...are a good thing, people - that means they're good villains. It's okay to have momentary thoughts that are basically "man, this villain is straight up evil and I'm sick and tired of their crap, I wish [character] would just kill them!" - but the moment you actually stop to consider what that would portend for the one doing the killing, you should realize that wait, no, actually that would be incredibly messed up, and hey, this is still relatively a children's show and our main character is supposed to be the hero that brings everyone else together. Dark and subverting resolutions are more appropriate in some other types of shows, and also in some cases even in these shows - but NOT where it would mean your hero is now a killer and just having that be perfectly cool within the framing of the show. Especially if in every single instance up to this moment, they have consistently strove to be better - kinder and more just - than their enemies.

SU spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Like guys, do you not remember the whole Bismuth incident, and how Steven resolved to never do that which Homeworld did, and literally threw away that which would've allowed him to kill indiscriminately? And then immediately had it thrown back in his face when he learned that his mother was a murderer, and had to grapple with what that meant for him and what he should be willing to do and how he should feel about her? That was like, a huge part of his character arc. Y'all want all of that just thrown away for the sake of SUBVERTING YOUR EXPECTATIONS, or because you're MAD AT THE VILLAIN, whose job it is to BE THE VILLAIN and someone that your main character struggles against? Just implode your main character's personality and guiding principals and character growth for either of those? okay.jpeg

 

@Musical: I just can't do it. Live-action musicals are death - I just can't do it, :p.

Sailor Stars/Steven Universe spoilers, so be warned anyone else who's clicking into this... :p
 

Spoiler

 

In the case of Galaxia I can understand why people want her dead, not redeemed, but it's not even entirely her fault in the anime. She's basically the protagonist of Diablo, which came out at the same time, so there's very little chance of one copying the other. She made the mistake of trying to fight the ultimate evil alone and, while she won the battle, lost herself. Someone in the comments even brought it up, you don't go redeeming Diablo in Diablo 2.

No, you don't, but Diablo isn't the Dark Wanderer any longer at the point you're facing him, and Usagi doesn't redeem Chaos, she expels it from Galaxia's physical form. That she rejects force as a means to do that is just Usagi being Usagi, and I have no idea how anyone can watch 200 episodes of this anime without understanding that.

It's hilarious, Sailor Moon tries a meaningful closure to a season's story arc for once and people are unhappy becaus she just doesn't blast the enemy out of existence. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call Galaxia a good villain, because the story arc is a little too messy for that, and there is - again - an evil energy entity behind it all, but such things come from being nominally tethered to the source material. She is, however, a decent attempt at giving the villain more of a tragic backstory than in previous seasons (and even it that, it kind of retreads S, with Soichi Tomoe striking a deal with the devil to save his daughter), even if most of it is just implied.

For Steven Universe, I don't get it at all. I never felt like hating any of the villains, least of all the diamonds. Yellow and Blue were almost immediately on board with Steven the moment they showed up, and White... didn't have enough development to be more than just kind of there as the overbearing mother of all gems that didn't allow for anything she perceived as imperfect to exist (which even extended to her fellow diamonds, although colour in diamonds does come from impurities... like it does for many gems), although that's not the fault of the show, but of the network.

Even Jasper ends up being a more tragic figure than an irredeemable bad guy. And Peridot... was hilarious even while she still had her limb enhancements. Not going to talk about one-off gem villains like Aquamarine or Holly Blue Agate.

I have more confliceted feelings about Rose than any of the villains in this show. She indirectly caused the attack on Earth that corrupted everyone by faking her death, lied to everyone, messed up Pearl real good, bubbled Bismuth without talking to anyone about it and eventually just left everything behind by forming Steven, lovable as he is. She may have been right in rebelling against White's authority, but she's far from having been a true hero.

I plan on watching the movie and Future at some point. Maybe Future even more than the movie, if the movie is really more like a Sailor Moon movie. :)

 

As for your sentiment on musicals, I can understand that. Not a big fan of regular musicals myself. I've seen a few (among them Cats, Hair and We Will Rock You and Phantom of the Opera) and nothing really changed my mind so far.

Characters singing and dancing for no reason while telling a story bothers me less in animation. :)

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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32 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

I read the first 20 or so. Then I went to the parody section to see if there were more about Sailor Moon.

That means you're not even close to the really disturbing stuff yet. Keep going!

It's even too early to ask you what your favorite storyline is. :p

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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@InsaneCommander 

Well Usagi's mom has been around, but her brother disappeared during Super S (maybe Fish Eye got him?) and her dad has been out of the picture for a while now (was he even in S?). In any case, I'm betting that more than the TV crew and collection of Superheroes they'd wonder why Chibi-Chibi was just there. Lmao.

Both the lake episode and the TV crew episode were great. Ami calling Usagi a **** was the only time I can recall seeing her really angry, and really the part that stretches belief is how the other Sailors wouldn't believe Usagi.

Sailor Stars really does feel like getting back to what was good about Sailor Moon after the cluster**** of Super S. I'm watching more often now because it feels fun again. And because Pedosus grooming a 10 year old doesn't happen every episode.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Sailor Moon episode 186

"I won't forgive evildoers who disturb the peace of mind of old men who love little children"

OH MY GOD

And Sailor Antique even summoned a unicorn to ride.

Unfortunately there was no candy kingdom and I have no idea how Chibi-Chibi is still alive.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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3 hours ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

@InsaneCommander 

 

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Well Usagi's mom has been around, but her brother disappeared during Super S (maybe Fish Eye got him?) and her dad has been out of the picture for a while now (was he even in S?). In any case, I'm betting that more than the TV crew and collection of Superheroes they'd wonder why Chibi-Chibi was just there. Lmao.

Both the lake episode and the TV crew episode were great. Ami calling Usagi a **** was the only time I can recall seeing her really angry, and really the part that stretches belief is how the other Sailors wouldn't believe Usagi.

Sailor Stars really does feel like getting back to what was good about Sailor Moon after the cluster**** of Super S. I'm watching more often now because it feels fun again. And because Pedosus grooming a 10 year old doesn't happen every episode.

 

I agree.

Spoiler

And even Ami was furious.

 

1 hour ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

Sailor Moon episode 186

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"I won't forgive evildoers who disturb the peace of mind of old men who love little children"

OH MY GOD

And Sailor Antique even summoned a unicorn to ride.

Unfortunately there was no candy kingdom and I have no idea how Chibi-Chibi is still alive.

 

My thoughts exactly.

Spoiler

I imagined Chibi Chibi had a secret stash, maybe in a parallel dimension.

 

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3 hours ago, majestic said:

Sailor Stars/Steven Universe spoilers, so be warned anyone else who's clicking into this... :p
 

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In the case of Galaxia I can understand why people want her dead, not redeemed, but it's not even entirely her fault in the anime. She's basically the protagonist of Diablo, which came out at the same time, so there's very little chance of one copying the other. She made the mistake of trying to fight the ultimate evil alone and, while she won the battle, lost herself. Someone in the comments even brought it up, you don't go redeeming Diablo in Diablo 2.

No, you don't, but Diablo isn't the Dark Wanderer any longer at the point you're facing him, and Usagi doesn't redeem Chaos, she expels it from Galaxia's physical form. That she rejects force as a means to do that is just Usagi being Usagi, and I have no idea how anyone can watch 200 episodes of this anime without understanding that.

It's hilarious, Sailor Moon tries a meaningful closure to a season's story arc for once and people are unhappy becaus she just doesn't blast the enemy out of existence. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call Galaxia a good villain, because the story arc is a little too messy for that, and there is - again - an evil energy entity behind it all, but such things come from being nominally tethered to the source material. She is, however, a decent attempt at giving the villain more of a tragic backstory than in previous seasons (and even it that, it kind of retreads S, with Soichi Tomoe striking a deal with the devil to save his daughter), even if most of it is just implied.

For Steven Universe, I don't get it at all. I never felt like hating any of the villains, least of all the diamonds. Yellow and Blue were almost immediately on board with Steven the moment they showed up, and White... didn't have enough development to be more than just kind of there as the overbearing mother of all gems that didn't allow for anything she perceived as imperfect to exist (which even extended to her fellow diamonds, although colour in diamonds does come from impurities... like it does for many gems), although that's not the fault of the show, but of the network.

Even Jasper ends up being a more tragic figure than an irredeemable bad guy. And Peridot... was hilarious even while she still had her limb enhancements. Not going to talk about one-off gem villains like Aquamarine or Holly Blue Agate.

I have more confliceted feelings about Rose than any of the villains in this show. She indirectly caused the attack on Earth that corrupted everyone by faking her death, lied to everyone, messed up Pearl real good, bubbled Bismuth without talking to anyone about it and eventually just left everything behind by forming Steven, lovable as he is. She may have been right in rebelling against White's authority, but she's far from having been a true hero.

I plan on watching the movie and Future at some point. Maybe Future even more than the movie, if the movie is really more like a Sailor Moon movie. :)

 

As for your sentiment on musicals, I can understand that. Not a big fan of regular musicals myself. I've seen a few (among them Cats, Hair and We Will Rock You and Phantom of the Opera) and nothing really changed my mind so far.

Characters singing and dancing for no reason while telling a story bothers me less in animation. :)

 

Spoiler

Funny that you keep mentioning Diablo, since I've actually been slowly playing through Hellfire for the first time with a friend on a unofficial engine update that has good controller support... Also, guys, Diablo in Diablo 2 is literally your character - if I was presented the option of saving my original character (even if they're the worst class instead of either a proper Rogue or Sorcerer), I'd do it! Different kinds of media with vastly different kinds of purpose, tone, and framing, :p.

SU:

Spoiler

You're telling me this isn't the face of a legendary hero whose moral flawlessness was only matched by their always perfect decision-making?

We%20Are%20the%20Crystal%20Gems.mkv_snap

I actually love Rose Quartz, but there's no doubt that it's a complicated and conflicted set of feelings for a very complicated and conflicted person. Speaking of emotional immaturity in the fanbase, there's a decent, vocal chunk of them who absolutely despise Rose Quartz. I get that she deliberately AND accidentally screwed over so many people with her decisions, and she was little more than an immature child undeservedly hailed as a savior for most of her existence, but she also had her good points, and having a messed up grey character like this was absolutely integral to the show's storytelling, and the reality is that most people in real life are like her - her story is probably the most real of anyone's in this show, especially given that it ended with running away from all of it straight into her own human-sized coffin and grave.

As for the Diamonds, I won't disagree that they got off too easily, but at the same time, what can Steven do about it, and what could you possibly do to meaningfully punish them for actions thousands of years in the past? They're more or less literal demigods - getting them to change their minds and modify their behavior after seeing the damage of their actions is about the best possible outcome*. The way we got there was rushed and could've probably been done better, yes (blame that on CN, not the SU team), but rehabilitation is objectively the best thing you can do for people who didn't even realize what they were doing was wrong in the first place.

*I can only assume that people's minds on this, once again, comes down to what I mentioned about emotional immaturity and such...people who can't grasp that this is, ultimately, a TV show, meant to represent concepts and themes (but are not actually real world examples of them!) and just want to take out their pent-up real life frustrations on cartoon characters. It sucks that real life villains who abuse everyone and everything on this Earth, including the very Earth herself, most often get away with their crimes and never are rehabilitated...but that's more an indictment on humanity and the governing/power systems we have than on a fictional gem civilization, guys.

P.S. I'll get to your PM probably tomorrow.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

 

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Funny that you keep mentioning Diablo, since I've actually been slowly playing through Hellfire for the first time with a friend on a unofficial engine update that has good controller support... Also, guys, Diablo in Diablo 2 is literally your character - if I was presented the option of saving my original character (even if they're the worst class instead of either a proper Rogue or Sorcerer), I'd do it! Different kinds of media with vastly different kinds of purpose, tone, and framing, :p.

SU:

  Reveal hidden contents

You're telling me this isn't the face of a legendary hero whose moral flawlessness was only matched by their always perfect decision-making?

We%20Are%20the%20Crystal%20Gems.mkv_snap

I actually love Rose Quartz, but there's no doubt that it's a complicated and conflicted set of feelings for a very complicated and conflicted person. Speaking of emotional immaturity in the fanbase, there's a decent, vocal chunk of them who absolutely despise Rose Quartz. I get that she deliberately AND accidentally screwed over so many people with her decisions, and she was little more than an immature child undeservedly hailed as a savior for most of her existence, but she also had her good points, and having a messed up grey character like this was absolutely integral to the show's storytelling, and the reality is that most people in real life are like her - her story is probably the most real of anyone's in this show, especially given that it ended with running away from all of it straight into her own human-sized coffin and grave.

As for the Diamonds, I won't disagree that they got off too easily, but at the same time, what can Steven do about it, and what could you possibly do to meaningfully punish them for actions thousands of years in the past? They're more or less literal demigods - getting them to change their minds and modify their behavior after seeing the damage of their actions is about the best possible outcome*. The way we got there was rushed and could've probably been done better, yes (blame that on CN, not the SU team), but rehabilitation is objectively the best thing you can do for people who didn't even realize what they were doing was wrong in the first place.

*I can only assume that people's minds on this, once again, comes down to what I mentioned about emotional immaturity and such...people who can't grasp that this is, ultimately, a TV show, meant to represent concepts and themes (but are not actually real world examples of them!) and just want to take out their pent-up real life frustrations on cartoon characters. It sucks that real life villains who abuse everyone and everything on this Earth, including the very Earth herself, most often get away with their crimes and never are rehabilitated...but that's more an indictment on humanity and the governing/power systems we have than on a fictional gem civilization, guys.

P.S. I'll get to your PM probably tomorrow.

 

 


 

Spoiler

 

I bought Diablo when it came out on GOG, but I haven't really played it in a while. I loved playing it back when it first came out. It's also a good showcase of how a game doesn't need a complex plot to have a good story, and great storytelling, at least within the confines of what was possible in a computer game in 1997.
 





I can see what you see not
Vision milky, then eyes rot
When you turn they will be gone
whispering their hidden song
Then you see what cannot be
Shadows move where light should be
Out of darkness, out of mind
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind

Yep. Still can recite that from memory, and I've been to the Halls of the Blind perhaps two or three times, not being someone who replays games a lot.

What a tangent. Diablo is mentioned I think because Galaxia's backstory is somewhat similar to the Dark Wanderer. It's not really a perfect comparison, for a few reasons (the biggest of all that Diablo's influence is implied to have caused the Dark Wanderer to jam the soul gem in his head without thinking about it).
 

Not sure if the Diamonds got off that easy, at least not Yellow and Blue, who have a seemingly endless lifetime of oppression by White behind them. Yellow even said that for thousands of years, everything she did was perfect, and it still wasn't good enough for White.

Assuming White represents an impossible to achieve purity that other gems are supposed to strive for, instead of being what they are, that makes them all more tragic figures than actual villains, trying to impress their father. Mother. Genderless creator entity? Not sure what White really is.

Still, I agree with you, there's no real way to deal with White other than convincing her that she's wrong, that her fear of imperfection makes her imperfect herself. Which was a nice touch, I'd say. Theoretically  there'd be potentially the way to have her overextend herself and breaking from strain, but that... wouldn't be very fitting with the rest of the show, would it?

Oh, and I don't hate Rose. Ultimately, she did some good and some bad things, but for the right reasons. You're right... it arguably makes her the most human of all the characters on the show.

And... regarding Steven:

 

Quote

 

If being a Guardian means hurting others, then I don't want it. Nothing good ever comes out of fighting. You know, violence isn't the only way to solve things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             -- Sailor Moon

 

 

 

Edited by majestic
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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
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Insomnia watching got us to watch Sailor Moon episodes 187-192.

There are a lot of fun moments here that I don't want to spoil Bartimaeus on, because I'm sure he reads the spoilers.

In broad strokes, the Sailors know each other's identities now, there's a new Metal Animal Sailor after Aluminum Siren got her bracelets removed, the Starlights got a backstory (no explanation why they change sex and gender when transforming, but I guess anime Sailor Moon is open minded) and Chibi-Chibi might be the Starlights' Princess. Looking at it I have eight more episodes to go, so I figure we're looking at two or three more fun filler episodes before going full story mode. I wonder if Sailor Galaxia is going to have a backstory where she willingly turned evil (or was a dark Sailor Guardian or something to begin with) or if it's going to be another evil energy being behind everything. I'll probably know by Saturday.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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