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Politics... US election edition (2020 almost over, read all about it!)


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He can still use @POTUS presumably if he wanted to, might be amusing seeing his tweets archived as official communications. And no forum software, that isn't a username.

28 minutes ago, rjshae said:

A ban that would actually matter:

Pelosi Asks Military To Limit Trump's Nuclear Authority. Here's How That System Works

It's not going to happen though. Scary time.

It wouldn't matter in the slightest.

Thinking Trump was ever going to nuke someone randomly on the way out is a clear indicator of Trump Derangement Syndrome at work. Conventional strikes on Iran, sure, considered and rejected by Trump a few weeks ago but could still happen and is being actively promoted by Israel and KSA. Randomly nuking someone though? Ludicrous.

Has to be said, if you think now is 'scary times' you should be very very glad that those protesters weren't met with a 'hail of bullets'. Because that would have had far worse consequences.

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1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

He can still use @POTUS presumably if he wanted to, might be amusing seeing his tweets archived as official communications. And no forum software, that isn't a username.

It wouldn't matter in the slightest.

Thinking Trump was ever going to nuke someone randomly on the way out is a clear indicator of Trump Derangement Syndrome at work. Conventional strikes on Iran, sure, considered and rejected by Trump a few weeks ago but could still happen and is being actively promoted by Israel and KSA. Randomly nuking someone though? Ludicrous.

Has to be said, if you think now is 'scary times' you should be very very glad that those protesters weren't met with a 'hail of bullets'. Because that would have had far worse consequences.

Actually, content of POTUS was deleted (the most recent one). I can imagine that they will lock the account until Biden's admin will take it over. 

Edited by Darkpriest
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4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

update:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/house-democrats-impeachment-plans/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/impeachment-trump-congress/2021/01/08/2a0d83ca-51c3-11eb-b96e-0e54447b23a1_story.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/will-democrats-impeach-trump-how-it-works

is increasing likely trump is impeached a second time. 

impeached and convicted by senate with 2/3 majority before the end of trump's term is unlikely. "why even bother," is a more relevant question unless the goal is disqualification, 'cause trump will likely be out of office before a senate trial is concluded. a 2/3 conviction removes from office and disqualifies.  am suspecting very few folks realize that the senate does not need 2/3 to disqualify, but such will become known soon.

HA! Good Fun!

Wanting to impeach him again seems like an overkill and a waste of the principle of being able to impeach ....I was under the impression it should be done under specific circumstances?

Of course Trump didnt think this was about overthrowing the senate and seizing marshal law 

Gromnir I want to clarify something around your views on the what many people believe is the way Democrat controlled cities seemed to ignore violence committed during BLM protests. Sorry if it seems I always ask you these questions but its because you are lawyer with years of real work experience 

Do you personally believe that its not reasonably   acceptable that every time their is a shooting of an African American immediately groups of BLM take to the streets and assume the police are guilty. This is before any investigation is concluded

It makes no sense how this could be considered a reasonable way of understanding legitimate police brutality? I am trying to understand this inconsistency with how citizens respond to any possibly illegal act committed by police anywhere ?

 

 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It also seems that Twitter's competitor has been banned from the Google app store. 

This smells a bit of an anti-trust case. Not sure if that's US users only, or global though. 

 

Edited by Darkpriest
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...and it turns out some of the rioters entering the legislature were wearing paramilitary gear and carrying zip ties. Yeah, for hostage taking.

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16 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

It also seems that Twitter's competitor has been banned from the Google app store. 

This smells a bit of an anti-trust case. Not sure if that's US users only, or global though.

For Parler? It's global, so far as I'm aware. Probably get the same ban on Apple too within a day. Telegram is better anyway.

Alphabet/ Facebook/ Apple etc desperately need to be broken up, if Trump had done it- even for the wrong reasons- it would have been one thing to genuinely be very proud of.

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37 minutes ago, rjshae said:

...and it turns out some of the rioters entering the legislature were wearing paramilitary gear and carrying zip ties. Yeah, for hostage taking.

I know this may sound like a silly question but how do you personally and emotionally feel about this incident and generally the people  in your state, do you feel angry or very upset or is it more disgust of how Trump contributed towards this. Or maybe people are just glad its over and see this an isolated incident 

And I know this is obvious but can you imagine this ever happening under Obama or any other president.

This is reminder you must have  a career politician becoming president and not a citizen who connected with the base but had no understanding for the importance of political decorum and what any president should or shouldnt say 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

It also seems that Twitter's competitor has been banned from the Google app store. 

This smells a bit of an anti-trust case. Not sure if that's US users only, or global though. 

 

Apple and Google have let Parler not follow their moderation guidelines for couple years for some reason, usually they throw apps out much quicker, now recent events have forced Apple's and Google's hands in matter. 

When you do app that allows people post content Google at least demands you to write clear policy how you will prevent them breaking terms that you as developer need to agree when you publish your app.

https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/10286120?hl=en

And if Google's moderator (or their AI algorithm) determines that you have not followed their enforced policy enough they will remove your app and some cases all your apps from the app store. And Apple has pretty similar policy in their store.

And there is quite little hope to win court case against them when they remove your app for any reason, as they have pretty solid terms of services that give them right to do pretty much what they want and they have money and will to fight decades in courts just to make other companies see that it is pointless to sue them.

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1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

It also seems that Twitter's competitor has been banned from the Google app store. 

This smells a bit of an anti-trust case. Not sure if that's US users only, or global though. 

 

Hm, on what grounds ?

Apple's next, although I guess they got the courtesty of a threat - https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/08/apple-says-it-will-kick-parler-off-the-app-store-in-24-hours-unless-content-is-moderated/

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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44 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I know this may sound like a silly question but how do you personally and emotionally feel about this incident and generally the people  in your state, do you feel angry or very upset or is it more disgust of how Trump contributed towards this. Or maybe people are just glad its over and see this an isolated incident

I can't really speak for the people of my state, particularly since we're in lockdown. It's a pretty mixed bag of opinions really. If I had to guess I'd say many people are disgusted by the whole thing, as I am. Mostly though I'm just glad it's over, and that Trump's political career is likely wrecked beyond recovery. But the more I see of this whole operation, the more disturbing it gets. I'll root for the FBI to dig out the roots of this misdeed.

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41 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Apple and Google have let Parler not follow their moderation guidelines for couple years for some reason..

Honestly, it's not that hard to find out the reason they didn't. Same reason Twitter only banned Trump today when they've obviously wanted to for years.

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1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

It also seems that Twitter's competitor has been banned from the Google app store. 

This smells a bit of an anti-trust case. Not sure if that's US users only, or global though. 

 

Dark how you feel about the end of the Trump presidency? Once I understood how Hilary Clinton lost I had to start understanding what was it about Trump that connected with people and once I started ignoring certain habits Trump had I then did see what he did right and what people liked about him or at least believed 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

 

Gromnir I want to clarify something around your views on the what many people believe is the way Democrat controlled cities seemed to ignore violence committed during BLM protests. Sorry if it seems I always ask you these questions but its because you are lawyer with years of real work experience 

Do you personally believe that its not reasonably   acceptable that every time their is a shooting of an African American immediately groups of BLM take to the streets and assume the police are guilty. This is before any investigation is concluded

summer police protests were complete different than january 6. 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/120436-politics-us-election-edition-2020-almost-over-read-all-about-it/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-2247485

of the many thousands o' summer protesters, there were indeed a few (too many btw) who committed vandalism and arson and assaults and those individuals were criticized as they deserved to be. some elements o' the left did indeed appear to minimize the violence, and we were bothered by a few congressmen who started gofundme efforts to post bail for counter protesters who became violent and were arrested, but folks such as bernie sanders and joe biden consistent criticized any who used violence or crossed line into lawlessness. 

belated, the wh seemed to embrace Gromnir's perspective on protests.

during the summer, the wh ignored the many thousands o' peaceful protesters and instead condemned all because o' the bad actions o' a few.

converse, many thousands o' rioters broke into the freaking Capitol during the the counting o' the electoral college votes with legislators present.  am not suggesting those peaceful trump protesters who did not trespass and loot and vandalize and assault is guilty o' any crime. am not criticizing those protesters who did not join the riots save for their disappointing willingness to buy into the false narrative o' the stolen election.  

the bad actors need be held accountable. however, protesting, in and of itself, is not a bad action. non violent protests is every american's right and is arguable their duty. march on streets, which is specific recognized as public fora by the Court, is perfect legit and legal even if it inconveniences a few and regardless o' whether it results in a few individuals taking the protests too far. charge the individuals. punish the individuals.

as to reaction to police brutality events

our advice consistency is quixotic. we always recommend wait for more info before knee-jerking, just as the kenosha story changed soon after the initial reports, so to does the details o' many/most police brutality stories... and so many other stories which enrage and enflame passions. wait. we advise wait.

however, again, is american to protest. even if we believe is unwise to protest before wait for more clarity, is nothing illegal 'bout doing so. we have personal put our reputation and personal safety on the line as we represented kkk and gang members as they demanded equal treatment from the government and their day in court in an effort to enjoy same free speech and association rights as blm. 

b094cd104c1e31b4ccfa62d4d605b0c6.jpg

HA! Good Fun!

ps if you don't like how the state and local police addressed protests, then take up with those states and municipalities. the fed had no power to intervene with force. individual municipalities made hard choices 'bout how best to deal with violence, which the fed actual exacerbated (please note how after the fed presence disappeared, most protests dwindled and died) but those cities made such decisions insular and discreet from the fed. put heavy armed police in front of peaceful protesters condemning police had predictable result o' resulting in even more anger... and again, january 6 were different as there were many thousands engaged in overt lawlessness which put lives in danger as well as property.

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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5 hours ago, Malcador said:

Hm, on what grounds ?

Apple's next, although I guess they got the courtesty of a threat - https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/08/apple-says-it-will-kick-parler-off-the-app-store-in-24-hours-unless-content-is-moderated/

So you say, that if a company has ToS, which is abusive, it's fine? 

I guess we need to check all those past anti-trust and consumer rights cases from the past. Perhaps companies were fined without reason. 

You are saying, that the company can use its monopolists position, to force actions, behavior, functionality, etc., which is not required by law? They can shut your entry to the market, when you are doing nothing illegal? 

Don't they fall into 230? Is there any content, which would be deemed ceiminally offensive allowed there? 

What will happen, people will most likely move to Huwaweii's phones and their OS and app store. 

That would be hilarious though, if the anti-china crowd would have to use Chinese products to function freely in the land of the free. 😁

 

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4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Dark how you feel about the end of the Trump presidency? Once I understood how Hilary Clinton lost I had to start understanding what was it about Trump that connected with people and once I started ignoring certain habits Trump had I then did see what he did right and what people liked about him or at least believed 

 

I feel it's unneeded circus. I suspect, he did not expect the actual events to turn out as they did, and he just hoped to go out as someone hated by elites and so called 'deep state' etc, whatever speaks to disenfranchised people who lost on globalization and are being marginilized or people being afraid that they can't just speak their mind, because they will be cancelled for their opinion or a verbal outburst of emotion. 

Funnily enough, the aftermath is just proving the power that was mounted to get rid of Trump. They want him deleted and inaccessible. 

I wonder though, if people realize, who will be the next big bad, because I can assure you, that it won't be banks or big tech  corportations. 

 

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8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Or maybe people are just glad its over and see this an isolated incident

Having been on the ground for a similar violent event, when Neo-Nazi **** invaded my town and killed an innocent woman in a deliberate act of terrorism, I can safely say this isn't an isolated incident in any way, shape, or form.

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-H. H. Munro

 

"Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum."

-Hurlshot

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Deadly_Nightshade said:

Having been on the ground for a similar violent event, when Neo-Nazi **** invaded my town and killed an innocent woman in a deliberate act of terrorism, I can safely say this isn't an isolated incident in any way, shape, or form.

the fbi and other US intelligence and security organizations keep stressing how right-wing groups is the most serious domestic threat in the US. you would think that events which attract large numbers o' such individuals would result in more robust law enforcement presence than we saw for the catholic nuns protesting daca in 2018.

slight hyperbole. slight.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

 

I wonder though, if people realize, who will be the next big bad, because I can assure you, that it won't be banks or big tech  corportations. 

 

This made me laugh because I have experienced through the years  " bank bashing " where people do blame banks for things that often not their fault yet I promise you Bernie Saunders has mentioned he would still like to penalize the big banks for 2008 because people lost their homes and the banks got off with no real changes 

And his supporters seem fine with that idea except the banks did suffer after 2008, they  implemented the various changes they had to make and by 2012 they had paid back the loans. And the same banks acknowledged that regulation is important 

So Bernie doesnt need to punish any banks because they accepted the new changes and more regulation.....we should be happy and feeling proud the US has such patriotic banks that care :teehee:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

I feel it's unneeded circus. I suspect, he did not expect the actual events to turn out as they did, and he just hoped to go out as someone hated by elites and so called 'deep state' etc, whatever speaks to disenfranchised people who lost on globalization and are being marginilized or people being afraid that they can't just speak their mind, because they will be cancelled for their opinion or a verbal outburst of emotion. 

Funnily enough, the aftermath is just proving the power that was mounted to get rid of Trump. They want him deleted and inaccessible.

Or... he's a mentally-ill man in a disturbed state of mind who is constantly looking for ways to feed his fragile ego. He's lost touch with reality, and the country is responding to the threat he poses.

Occam's razor applies.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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47 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Or... he's a mentally-ill man in a disturbed state of mind who is constantly looking for ways to feed his fragile ego. He's lost touch with reality, and the country is responding to the threat he poses.

Occam's razor applies.

it would be sad if it weren't so illustrative that the people who were pushing the trump derangement syndrome narrative for the past four years would indulge extreme cognitive dissonance to maintain their initial belief.  what did they convince themselves they were seeing on january 6, 2021? terrible reality is that january 6 trump wasn't different than the trump o' the past four years.

bad luck.

antifa infiltrators.

nowhere near as bad as the media makes it look.

etc.

pile on the excuses to maintain the increasing unsupportable narrative.

henceforth, TDS only makes sense when used ironic, intentional or otherwise, 'cause trump keeps managing to do the improbable, the unthinkable and the impossible and yet there is people who act as if each o' these events is isolated and insular. most o' us expected some degree o' trump inspired nonsense on january 6, but too few in power planned for the worst and so the unlikely and improbable somehow becomes inevitable in retrospect?

the President is ignorant, erratic, and narcissistic and he is not gonna somehow get less ignorant, erratic and narcissistic in the next eleven days. assume he is gonna get worse is the prudent course of action.

mattis was sleeping in his uniform when trump was demanding action against north korea early in his Presidency, and recent every living former secretary o' defense joined an opinion piece article which recognized the serious threat trump posed to the republic in this the last month of his term in office. shoulda' been a wake up call. wasn't. same trump at start as end, but with criminal charges looming as soon as he leaves office, trump is more desperate than at anytime previous in his Presidency. 

you cannot full prepare for what trump will do, but is prudent to assume that whatever you might imagine, the reality will be worse.. and more stoopid. no, am not expecting trump will successful start a war or sacrifice 10,000 of his followers to baphomet as part o' an infernal pact to retain power. am not knowing what to expect but am hopeful those in the white house, pentagon and Congress are prepared for something terrible, 'cause even if terrible never happens, with trump the improbable, unthinkable and impossible is... not. 

we expected chaos on january 6. we warned o' chaos. we didn't imagine what actual happened, not by a long shot.

 

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, rjshae said:

Or... he's a mentally-ill man in a disturbed state of mind who is constantly looking for ways to feed his fragile ego. He's lost touch with reality, and the country is responding to the threat he poses.

Occam's razor applies.

Personally, I think he miscalculated in his cynical approach. 

Looking on his actions and policies, he does not fit egomaniac too well. 

 

He had very pro-Israeli approach in his foreign policies. Was anti-russian, but without excess. Tried a PR stunt with North Korea. Prevented going into more conflicts (attack on Iran for example) and started wrapping up some existing US deployments. 

Got a better deal for US in the NAFTA. Started to put a pressure on economic relations with China. 

Deregulated some areas, and lowered some taxes. 

And then, there are some actions that were aimed to satisfy the perception of his core base, like trying to deal with illegal immigration, pulling from climate agreement, and political bashing with dems using dubious tactics. 

Overall, the last stunt was unnecessary. He lost more than he could have gained. Although I think he understood he started fighting for his life after the presidency, when he understood that he will be deplatformed and cancelled by the BigTech. This is probably what led him to entrnech so hard in the post election period. 

You can't make any business, if you are deplatformed everywhere. (really shows the power that Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon hold) 

Edited by Darkpriest
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22 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

He had very pro-Israeli approach in his foreign policies. Was anti-russian, but without excess.

Why do mainstream liberals still think he's a Putin Puppet?  or have they finally gotten over that nonsense?  I mean he filed 43 different sanctions against Russia, bombed Syria twice and did everything he could to ensure Israel's safety and I smelled him as Reaganesque Zionist the moment I saw him.

Liberals can be as full of **** as the right sometimes, and seem to operate within the context of the Conservative approach to Imperialism confined within Anglo-Zionist sphere of influence.  It's such an outmoded way of thinking but that's the problem with old people and politics, they tend to stick with what they know, even after it stops working.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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42 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Personally, I think he miscalculated in his cynical approach. 

Looking on his actions and policies, he does not fit egomaniac too well. 

Ya know, I actually agreed with him on several of his policies. Not all of them, but at least some. If he hadn't been such a vile, hateful, ignorant man I might even have come to support him. As it is, his mental issues make him much too dangerous to remain in power. He makes me feel like Presidential candidates need to be put through a battery of mental health checks. The kind that astronauts need to pass.

Edited by rjshae
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5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

So you say, that if a company has ToS, which is abusive, it's fine? 

I guess we need to check all those past anti-trust and consumer rights cases from the past. Perhaps companies were fined without reason. 

You are saying, that the company can use its monopolists position, to force actions, behavior, functionality, etc., which is not required by law? They can shut your entry to the market, when you are doing nothing illegal? 

Don't they fall into 230? Is there any content, which would be deemed ceiminally offensive allowed there? 

What will happen, people will most likely move to Huwaweii's phones and their OS and app store. 

That would be hilarious though, if the anti-china crowd would have to use Chinese products to function freely in the land of the free. 😁

 

Yes. As long as there is almost unlimited contractual freedom then company can but almost any stipulation in their ToS they want and those stipulations must be followed if they don't break specific laws. And there is almost no laws when it comes to service contracts between two companies. Which means that it is usually for small companies take or leave situation.

EU has tried to create directives that would put some rules that big companies need to follow, but almost all of those have been blocked by member countries. And US has even less restrictions and EU and as Parler is US company it would need win their case there. And good luck with that. You can just look how well it has went for musicians who have tried to get their abusive contracts nullified even in cases where other party is actually physically abused them.

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