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Coronavirus Goes Fourth


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12 minutes ago, Gorth said:

the Oxford/AstraZeneca seems to be way less efficient than hoped at the time of ordering those?

It seems spacing the doses may be more effective. Some more AZ twists... From the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/second-shots-of-covid-vaccine-could-be-delayed-further-in-england

"Second shots of coronavirus vaccine could be delayed even further amid growing evidence that spacing out the doses improves their effectiveness."

"Evidence now suggests that spacing out doses of the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine may be more effective at protecting people. Clinical trials revealed the efficacy of the vaccine was substantially higher, at 90%, in a subgroup of people who received half a dose followed by a full dose, rather than two full doses, which had an efficacy of 62%."

"People who had the half dose then full dose were those who were vaccinated at a longer time interval, roughly six to 12 weeks, and what they’ve seen in their data is that people who have the second dose later probably have a three times higher antibody level than those who were vaccinated earlier"

 

One wonders why The Guardian is so slow coming to this understanding. Data backing this up was included in the UK regulatory approval for AstraZeneca, published 30 Dec. Reporters do need to read beyond the first page to get the scientific rationale for greater spacing of the doses.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist
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On 1/10/2021 at 7:32 PM, Skarpen said:

There is not one death related to family gathering but there was quite a few suicides due to government destroying whole branches of our economy. And spikes in deaths (we had the most death in November since WWII) was three times higher than covid related deaths. And it was due the fact that that the public health is practically blocked by restrictions and people cannot normally visit a doctor and don't get the necessary treatment. There was few people dying of heart attack because they didn't had covid test and did not received treatment on time. So yeah I definitely can blame the government for the failure of this whole "pandemic". We have few percent less deaths than Sweden and it's not worth butchering the economy the way government did it.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/

I did some quick research which I forgot to share with you, you can see from this link Poland is definitely dealing with the virus spreading exponentially 

If you look at the link and scroll to the bottom you will see " Latest News " 

You can  expand each day till the 31 December and you will notice the " new cases " is constantly on the increase. The deaths are not part of this calculation and only when you see  a constant decrease of " new cases " is your country successfully dealing with the virus spread

So as you can see Poland is dealing with the " second " wave and  both its government policies  and citizens choices are responsible for this failure 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/

I did some quick research which I forgot to share with you, you can see from this link Poland is definitely dealing with the virus spreading exponentially 

If you look at the link and scroll to the bottom you will see " Latest News " 

You can  expand each day till the 31 December and you will notice the " new cases " is constantly on the increase. The deaths are not part of this calculation and only when you see  a constant decrease of " new cases " is your country successfully dealing with the virus spread

So as you can see Poland is dealing with the " second " wave and  both its government policies  and citizens choices are responsible for this failure 

Blaming citizens for governmental failures is something only a complete asshat would do.

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48 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Blaming citizens for governmental failures is something only a complete asshat would do.

Yes but citizens decided to have large Xmas parties for example , that is not the fault of government 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Debunking Covid-19 myths: part 1 - Covid-19 is NOT a hoax! - West Country Bylines

Information and statistics are often thrown around by those trying to downplay the pandemic and can sound plausible, making it hard to know what is real and what isn’t. So, I thought I’d bring together the claims and questions I see regularly and debunk/answer them as simply as possible. Hopefully, this will form a useful resource for others wanting to understand the facts behind the pandemic.

“There have only been 388 Covid-19 deaths among the under-60s in the UK.“

This is a truly callous claim. It came from a report in various newspapers stating “388 people aged under 60 with ‘NO underlying health conditions’ have died of Covid-19 in England’s hospitals” in December 2020.

However, the list of pre-existing health conditions covered anything from autism to asthma, learning difficulties to angina, and fractured arms to glaucoma.

To discount the death from Covid-19 of someone who is autistic as a means of trying to minimise the severity of the disease is quite frankly sickening; as is discounting the death of anyone over 60. To date, over 80,000 people have died in the UK as a direct result of Covid-19, all leaving behind sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends, partners and loved ones. Discounting their deaths because they had learning difficulties or because they are over 60 is a dangerous path on which to travel.

 

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes but citizens decided to have large Xmas parties for example , that is not the fault of government 

Citizens deciding to buy dumplings is not the fault of government, but neither of those have any bearing on the covid and non covid cases so it's still governments fault. 

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10 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Citizens deciding to buy dumplings is not the fault of government, but neither of those have any bearing on the covid and non covid cases so it's still governments fault. 

Not really, the virus is spread by human beings and not government policy 

So when you have a country, like Poland and most of our country's, that is going through a " second wave"  it is definitely important citizens adhere to global best practice to avoid spreading the virus

So you should wear your mask, avoid inter-state travel and avoid large crowded events ....like large Xmas parties. This has a direct bearing on the virus spreading and the increase of Covid cases 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3117598/coronavirus-chinas-new-outbreak-raises-questions-about

China is seeing a second resurgence of the virus in one of their main provinces. This shows us what we already know that this  terrible, insidious virus can still spread in even the most strict, government controlled environments 

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Sure it can. Also depends on the measures the government so strictly enforces. If those are not adequate you can be as strict as you want... ;)

China doesn't have a good vaccine yet afaik and they have a lot of people to vaccinate. No surprise the virus might cause local outbreaks. But I believe those will not explode like they do in Europe or the US. 

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13 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Sure it can. Also depends on the measures the government so strictly enforces. If those are not adequate you can be as strict as you want... ;)

China doesn't have a good vaccine yet afaik and they have a lot of people to vaccinate. No surprise the virus might cause local outbreaks. But I believe those will not explode like they do in Europe or the US. 

China has been using  their own vaccine or vaccines on many of  their citizens for months now but only recently did they openly release  the results of the important live human trials. So I tend to agree, we didnt know how effective the Chinese vaccines are because without the data being globally available it cannot be trusted 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So you should wear your mask, avoid inter-state travel and avoid large crowded events ....like large Xmas parties. This has a direct bearing on the virus spreading and the increase of Covid cases 

What a bunch of crap. None of this have any bearing on spreading the virus.

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31 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

What a bunch of crap. None of this have any bearing on spreading the virus.

 

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

In your opinion how is the virus spread?

Yes that is a good question Gfted1

Skarpen how do believe the virus is spread ?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

In your opinion how is the virus spread?

 

38 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 

Yes that is a good question Gfted1

Skarpen how do believe the virus is spread ?

Glad you guys asked. So now we will start the "The more you know" segment of our show.
Covid-19 spread by droplets. So it mainly spread by direct contact with infected saliva, respiratory secretions or respiratory droplets. So either someone has to cough, sneeze at you, you have to exchange saliva with infected person or touch the surface with said droplets and then transfer them to your eyes, nose or mouth. So:

1. Wearing a mask does little. A glove would be more helpful, but not as helpful as a good personal hygiene. Wearing a mask poses more danger than not wearing a mask. Unless you are trained medical professional you will not handle the mask properly, as after a while a mask becomes just a one big wet habitat for all sorts of bacteria, viruses and other things bad for your health. And most people are not medical trained professionals. Unless you are walking the street and exchange saliva with random strangers (which BruceVC strike me as a person who does that, sorry) or lick doorknobs (same as above) it's very unlikely you will get infected by a random person on the street.

2. Travel. Unless you travel packed like Gypsy camp then you also will not get infected traveling.

3. Family gathering. Family members that are tested and follow basic hygiene have zero chance of getting infected during a family gathering. So unless you have inappropriate relation with your cousin or niece that is infected (again, BruceVC...) a Christmas party is no problem.

So to summarize the spreading of a virus we have some main spreading points:

1. Hospitals. Not following basic guidelines, packing infected and uninfected people for example in testing tents.

2. Public transportation, again not following basic guidelines and packing people in small quarters.

We will have another spreading points, I'm sure, in a couple of weeks -> vaccination centers.


So yeah all the above is government responsibility. From my experience the people Bruce so gladly blame and crap all over are doing everything they possibly can and are bearing with most of the stupid, unlawful and stupid government ideas.

 

1 minute ago, Hurlshot said:

Antifa, obviously.

Dumbass 😝

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21 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

 

Glad you guys asked. So now we will start the "The more you know" segment of our show.
Covid-19 spread by droplets. So it mainly spread by direct contact with infected saliva, respiratory secretions or respiratory droplets. So either someone has to cough, sneeze at you, you have to exchange saliva with infected person or touch the surface with said droplets and then transfer them to your eyes, nose or mouth. So:

 

You have a raised a very important fact of the virus, it is spread primarily by droplets that come out of your nose and mouth when  we talk or shout or sing.

Do you agree these droplets float when they come out your mouth and nose, they dont fall to the floor and these droplets can build up and float around in a confined space or actually any space if there are enough droplets. Do you agree with that and if not what part of that do you disagree with? 

 

Oh and you right about me being fine with kissing random strangers if I can but I havent done that since the pandemic started more or less 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Big sunk of FInland's corona cases because of travelling (people visiting their families in countries with higher infection rate, people going in vacations in ski resorts etc. and socialize freely with other people there).

Family gatherings have been also major source of infections. Visiting members of family in care homes also caused problems in start. And again in December.

There has been only small number of Infections in hospitals and those who have been infected are nurses and doctors who have tended patients that didn't know that they were infected.

Infections traced to public transportation that isn't airplane are zero.

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1 minute ago, Elerond said:

Big sunk of FInland's corona cases because of travelling (people visiting their families in countries with higher infection rate, people going in vacations in ski resorts etc. and socialize freely with other people there).

Family gatherings have been also major source of infections. Visiting members of family in care homes also caused problems in start. And again in December.

There has been only small number of Infections in hospitals and those who have been infected are nurses and doctors who have tended patients that didn't know that they were infected.

Infections traced to public transportation that isn't airplane are zero.

Yes, inter-state/province and travelling outside your country  unfortunately can be real areas that cause the virus to spread 

And yes family gatherings outside your immediate family, who you may live with, are also known as high risk around the spread 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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44 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

You have a raised a very important fact of the virus, it is spread primarily by droplets that come out of your nose and mouth when  we talk or shout or sing.

Do you agree these droplets float when they come out your mouth and nose, they dont fall to the floor and these droplets can build up and float around in a confined space or actually any space if there are enough droplets. Do you agree with that and if not what part of that do you disagree with? 

 

Oh and you right about me being fine with kissing random strangers if I can but I havent done that since the pandemic started more or less 

No Bruce. Droplets cannot "built" up and "float". A droplet of water is not lighter than air. They will drop. A very small droplet will fall slower, but it is falling. And we all know falling isn't flying, if you don't go watch Toy Story.

40 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Infections traced to public transportation that isn't airplane are zero.

Are you talking Finland or all the world? Because "patient zero" in Poland came from Germany on a bus and infected passengers.

Edited by Amentep
Skip the personal commentary - address issues not the person
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1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

Antifa, obviously.

Hurlshot IS Q.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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17 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

 

Are you talking Finland or all the world? Because "patient zero" in Poland came from Germany on a bus and infected passengers.

All the points in my post are about Finland's situation

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Nearly nothing what Skarpen said is correct. I know it doesn't make any sense to try and discuss with him, but for anybody else interested here are some links about how masks work against Covid-19:
https://www.pnas.org/content/117/51/32293
https://www.zmescience.com/science/hamster-face-mask-covid-study-15324/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253999/

Study that shows that Covid-19 doesn't only spread via droplets (which don't fly) but also via aerosol (which does):
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.13.20063784v1.full-text


 

Edited by Amentep
discuss topics, not people
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42 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Back to the topic. No Bruce. Droplets cannot "built" up and "float". A droplet of water is not lighter than air. They will drop. A very small droplet will fall slower, but it is falling. And we all know falling isn't flying, if you don't go watch Toy Story.

Are you talking Finland or all the world? Because "patient zero" in Poland came from Germany on a bus and infected passengers.

No need to apologize, I am not at all offended by your opinion of me 

But its clear you dont understand how the virus spreads. Its pointless engaging with anyone on a topic when they dont understand even the basics about that topic. When you spend some time understanding the nature  of the virus I will engage with you :thumbsup:

 

Edited by Amentep
edited from original quote.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Do you know Minutephysics? He usually makes short vids about... well... physics. But sometimes also about other scientific stuff.

He did a new video about Covid-Tests. Interesting imo:

 

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