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Coronavirus Goes Fourth


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Researchers have had good results from a two week, $10 course of the antidepressant fluxoxamine:

The antidepressant fluvoxamine could keep mild COVID-19 from worsening

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The results come from real-world use of the drug to treat workers at the Golden Gate Fields horse racing track in Berkeley, Calif. Of those who opted to take fluvoxamine, none got sicker, and within two weeks, their symptoms cleared. In comparison, 12.5 percent of those who turned down the drug wound up hospitalized. Two got so sick they were put on a ventilator to assist with breathing, and one died...

Good news, if it pans out.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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7 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

This view around global pharmaceutical giving up their patents and IP around vaccines is well meaning but misplaced and I dont support it. Why would any company in any part of the world that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in RD and spent years learning how to manufacture vaccines  now give up all that time and effort to other countries or companies who have never been interested in the investment in those fields ? 

If we somehow force pharmaceutical companies to give up their patents for Corona why stop with the Corona vaccines? Their are more deadly disease and viruses out their so why not just make the IP available for all vaccines and medicine and the global pharmaceutical companies will go out of business ?

 Also their is a vaccine program which is distributing vaccines to poorer countries for free or cheap its called Covax and basically its already deploying for free millions of vaccines throughout Africa

https://www.who.int/initiatives/act-accelerator/covax

Finally I dislike the usage of established real words that  that have a historical  meaning to people and countries, playing the " Apartheid " card is woefully inappropriate. And some NGO's and people, like the article ,  have framed this debate around the distribution of vaccines as " Vaccine Apartheid ". This is not at all like the terrible system of Apartheid and what it did. Using emotional words to support your argument to gain support is lazy and makes the  real word lose emphasis 

 

 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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30 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

HA! Good Fun!

 

I first thought this was a " legitimate " post about why some are saying dont take vaccine but its not and its brilliant and very true

I think this should be played globally on all international channels ...I love how he basically covers most of  the justifications  and false narratives I have heard from vaccine denialists 

I love the " I dont know anyone who has contracted Polio "  :lol:

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

This view around global pharmaceutical giving up their patents and IP around vaccines is well meaning but misplaced and I dont support it. Why would any company in any part of the world that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in RD and spent years learning how to manufacture vaccines  now give up all that time and effort to other countries or companies who have never been interested in the investment in those fields ? 

If we somehow force pharmaceutical companies to give up their patents for Corona why stop with the Corona vaccines? Their are more deadly disease and viruses out their so why not just make the IP available for all vaccines and medicine and the global pharmaceutical companies will go out of business ?

 Also their is a vaccine program which is distributing vaccines to poorer countries for free or cheap its called Covax and basically its already deploying for free millions of vaccines throughout Africa

https://www.who.int/initiatives/act-accelerator/covax

Finally I dislike the usage of established real words that  that have a historical  meaning to people and countries, playing the " Apartheid " card is woefully inappropriate. And some NGO's and people, like the article ,  have framed this debate around the distribution of vaccines as " Vaccine Apartheid ". This is not at all like the terrible system of Apartheid and what it did. Using emotional words to support your argument to gain support is lazy and makes the  real word lose emphasis 

 

 

 

You need to sk yourself a question, will you make world divided in ability to travel to rich and poor? Or if this is the actual pandemic then in the best attempt to return to normal is to remove the transmition and mutations potential from the human populce. The longer yoy take the process the more likely appearance of a mutation, which will bypass all the vaccination, making the spent money almost wasted. When do you consider cutting short term profits for longer term gains? Or do you accept that economies will not get back to normal and might crash hard, should a more dangerous mutation emerge? Weight in alternative costs for societies and economies vs pharma gains? 

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8 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Major European nations suspend use of AstraZeneca vaccine

Why does this seem like a total knee-jerk response that will end up killing more people than it saves?

Because it is?

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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32 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Major European nations suspend use of AstraZeneca vaccine

Why does this seem like a total knee-jerk response that will end up killing more people than it saves?

They want you to use the Bill Gates vaccine.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Ironically the figures from the UK suggest that Pfizer is more likely to cause blood clots than AZ, albeit marginally and within statistical margin of error. In reality neither does, statistically both show lower blood clot prevalence than expectation from general population. Therefore if we took the reasoning to its logical conclusion the vaccines actually lower clot risk slightly and you should take them regularly for that purpose... Not really of course, but you can do anything with statistics if you're motivated enough.

The more detailed justification used for the AZ suspension is that the clots are of an unusual type and there's some interference with platelet function, eg the German justification:

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After intensive consultations on the serious thrombotic events that have occurred in Germany and Europe, the Paul Ehrlich Institute recommends the temporary suspension of vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca.

Compared to the status of March 11th, 2021, further cases (status: Monday, March 15th, 2021) have been reported in Germany. When analyzing the new data, the experts at the Paul Ehrlich Institute now see a noticeable increase in a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) in connection with a lack of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia) and bleeding close to vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca.

The data will be further analyzed and assessed by the European Medicines Agency ( EMA ).

Until the evaluation by the EMA has been completed , vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine from AstraZeneca in Germany will be suspended. Today's decision concerns both initial and follow-up vaccinations.

The Paul Ehrlich Institute would like to point out that people who have received the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca and feel increasingly unwell more than four days after the vaccination - e.g. with severe and persistent headaches or punctiform skin bleeding - seek medical attention immediately

 

Couple of notes: normally lack of platelets would usually lead to blood not clotting, eg as in haemophilia. And yes, the big criticism is that death rate from the clots is way, way below the number of deaths from covid that would be prevented by not suspending the vaccine; and statistical prevalence of clots in general is still below expectation. One specific type has gone up while others have gone down leading again to the inescapable conclusion that vaccines lower the incidence of blood clots in general.

The absolute worst thing is that in a months time the same people will be baffled about why people aren't getting vaccinated, and probably rail against anti vaxxers for their bad statistics and knee jerk reactions.

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This seems like the same kind of specious reasoning that anti-vaxxers use to say vaccines cause autism. Yes, people who get vaccines also sometimes have autism...but unless the rates of autism between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers is significantly different (never mind the issue of reporting - I would imagine anti-vaxxers would be much less likely to bring in their kids to get tested for autism to begin with), then what are we talking about?

Anti-vaxxers being worried about it is true to form - why are the experts?

Edited by Bartimaeus

Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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It's actually kind of worse than antivax, since these people are meant to be scientists capable of checking facts and with intrinsic credibility while the average antivaxxer is worried about falling off the side of the earth if they walk too far in a straight line. Example text for anyone running into the NYT paywall (w/ emphases mine)

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One day after receiving her first dose of Moderna’s Covid vaccine, Luz Legaspi, 72, woke up with bruises on her arms and legs, and blisters that bled inside her mouth.

She was hospitalized in New York City that day, Jan. 19, with a severe case of immune thrombocytopenia — a lack of platelets, a blood component essential for clotting.

The same condition led to the death in January of Dr. Gregory Michael, 56, an obstetrician in Miami Beach whose symptoms appeared three days after he received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. Treatments failed to restore his platelets, and after two weeks in the hospital he died from a brain hemorrhage.

It is not known whether this blood disorder is related to the Covid vaccines [but, see below]. More than 31 million people in the United States have received at least one dose, and 36 similar cases had been reported to the government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, VAERS, by the end of January. The cases involved either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, the only two authorized so far for emergency use in the United States.

So the exact same symptoms/ effects come from both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines as well. Indeed:

Quote

Hematologists with expertise in treating immune thrombocytopenia said they suspected that the vaccine did play a role. But they said that cases after vaccination were likely to be exceedingly rare, possibly the result of an unknown predisposition in some people to react to the vaccine by developing an immune response that destroys their platelets. The disorder has occurred, rarely, in people who received other inoculations, particularly the measles-mumps-rubella one.

So it also occurs not just with other covid vaccines, but with vaccines in general including non covid ones.

Ho hum, or it would be if it wasn't so utterly irresponsible and stupid. Any day now one of the antivaxxers blessed with the ability to read will draw exactly the same conclusion, and apply the 'danger' of the AZ vaccine to vaccines in general- and those idiot experts have provided perfect ammunition to argue that if AZ is suspended then all vaccines should be.

Can't believe I'm going to say this but the only body coming out of this with a scintilla of credit in Europe is the EMA, the national ones are having a follow the moron stampede.

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35 minutes ago, rjshae said:

So... the $750 million the Gates Foundation spent on AZD1222 doesn't count?

Bill Gates commits $750M to help Oxford vaccinate the world against COVID-19

Ah ok, I had thought it was the Pfizer one that had the microchips.   At least Canada is still going ahead with the AZ one.  I still laugh at Ontario getting doses that expire in 2 weeks, so they have to give them out ASAP (which the Ontario government being able to do with Crackhead Ford's brother at the helm is dubious).

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Can't believe I'm going to say this but the only body coming out of this with a scintilla of credit in Europe is the EMA, the national ones are having a follow the moron stampede.

Hey, for once the Swedish government isn't going full retard. We need some cred! :(

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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48 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Ah ok, I had thought it was the Pfizer one that had the microchips.   At least Canada is still going ahead with the AZ one.  I still laugh at Ontario getting doses that expire in 2 weeks, so they have to give them out ASAP (which the Ontario government being able to do with Crackhead Ford's brother at the helm is dubious).

They'll need a control to compare to the microchipped population. The big question is, which one is the control? It's a double-blind study. Mwahahaha...  🤡

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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6 hours ago, Azdeus said:

Hey, for once the Swedish government isn't going full retard. We need some cred! :(

Fair call, not all the national health agencies have followed the herd despite there being quite a lot of pressure to and those that haven't deserve credit too.

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22 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Fair call, not all the national health agencies have followed the herd despite there being quite a lot of pressure to and those that haven't deserve credit too.

We needed that, thank you :)

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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2 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Fair call, not all the national health agencies have followed the herd despite there being quite a lot of pressure to and those that haven't deserve credit too.

Oh, FFS!

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/anders-tegnell-om-vaccinstoppet-rapporter-om-fler-biverkningar-an-blodproppar

Sweden's stopping aswell.

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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Hold up. Is this "science" now?

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Wonder if it was just a bad batch.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Hey, it's killing old white people, making room for the cultural enrichment 😂

Dark arent you concerned with this  " Vaccine hesitancy " that we see throughout the world ? Its quite big in the USA amongst minorities and the Trump support base. On CNN they were saying more than 40 % of Republican men wont take the vaccine 

Take a look at this graph in the link below to see who in the USA are worst offenders around this 

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/almost-half-of-republican-men-say-they-wont-get-the-coronavirus-vaccine/

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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11 hours ago, Azdeus said:

I think they did that literally ten minutes after I posted, so it was probably my fault.

7 hours ago, Malcador said:

Wonder if it was just a bad batch.

Not likely to be a badly manufactured batch, the relevant European regulations are extremely strict. If it's a 'bad batch' improper post production storage, improper dosing/ training, or- at a pinch- deliberate tampering would be far more likely causes. They're all far less likely than other explanations though.

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