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Coronavirus Goes Fourth


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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Except for the fact throughout Africa you find these refugee camps that many governments use and no one  accuses these governments of being " un-African " .....only SA gets labeled like this

Hey, the worlds first concentration camps in the (modern sense) were introduced in SA. Although they were built and operated by the British to eradicate the Boer population. Here in Australia we send illegal immigrants to "overseas holding facilities", providing work for those poor people in Papua New-Guinea and elsewhere. As for people returning to Australia these days, they get sent to hotels for two weeks of quarantine. With guards preventing them from leaving their hotel rooms.

 

True to form, the government made a fubar and allowed Australian Open to go ahead. Now we have almost a hundred pissed off tennis stars and their entourage because they are forced to stick to same quarantine rules as everyone else, regardless of how famous you are and how much rules for normal, mortal people isn't supposed to apply to you.

 

(edit: At this point in time, it would otherwise only be Australian citizen, residents and Kiwi's that are allowed into Australia at all)

(edit 2: Even if vaccines turns out to be effective, Australia's borders are likely to be closed to the outside world for the rest of 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55699581)

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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23 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Hey, the worlds first concentration camps in the (modern sense) were introduced in SA. Although they were built and operated by the British to eradicate the Boer population. Here in Australia we send illegal immigrants to "overseas holding facilities", providing work for those poor people in Papua New-Guinea and elsewhere. As for people returning to Australia these days, they get sent to hotels for two weeks of quarantine. With guards preventing them from leaving their hotel rooms.

 

True to form, the government made a fubar and allowed Australian Open to go ahead. Now we have almost a hundred pissed off tennis stars and their entourage because they are forced to stick to same quarantine rules as everyone else, regardless of how famous you are and how much rules for normal, mortal people isn't supposed to apply to you.

 

(edit: At this point in time, it would otherwise only be Australian citizen, residents and Kiwi's that are allowed into Australia at all)

I appreciate your interest and views in certain historical events, some of them I have also researched. Like the  terrible reality of the Boer concentration camps which also lead to the deaths of black women and children, not just Boer women and children, as many black people helped the Boers against the British as they lived on the Boer farms and the British were considered their enemy as well 

 Also I have a direct family connection with the Second Boer War as basically all my family, on my dads and stepmoms, side came to SA with the British army in 1899 to fight the Boers. They were simple soldiers of course and they had nothing to do with the architecture and creation of the Concentration camps. This was Kitchener's idea and its an ongoing debate if the intention was the eradication of the  Boer women and children or, as I believe, it was about getting the Boers to surrender as the war was dragging on and the Boers prudently would not face the British in open battle but used effective guerilla warfare tactics 

But either way the outcome was ghastly and inhumane and thousands of Boer and black women and children died, so I would never deny it happened. I am just asking if it was intentional ? 

 

https://www.sahistory.org.za/article/women-and-children-white-concentration-camps-during-anglo-boer-war-1900-1902

https://www.sahistory.org.za/article/black-concentration-camps-during-anglo-boer-war-2-1900-1902

But Gothfuscious more importantly you have raised before your concerns with the Oz perceived Corona response being draconian

Yet Australia is considered one of the few countries that is not overwhelmed  by the virus. So you see the pattern and corollary? If you live in a  Democracy,  like most of us, its  important to have laws like your government has implemented to ensure compliance from citizens. That seems to be the most effective way to address the virus spread until the vaccine is available 

So forced quarantines in hotels with guards I can understand is unsettling but its has been very successful in ensuring your country hasn't been ravaged by the pandemic. Trust me most of us would accept that reality any day as opposed to  our current realities with the virus spreading exponentially 

So as I said previously you guys should be thankful your government has implemented certain laws and enforced regulations because the alternative is much, much worse 

 

 

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

So as I said previously you guys should be thankful your government has implemented certain laws and enforced regulations because the alternative is much, much worse

Actually, kudos for that to the state governments, regardless of political affiliation. The moron in Canberra did what he does best in a crisis situation, nothing.

 

They formed a national council kind of thing between state PM's and sorted it out, coordinating stuff. The federal governments only contribution was to follow the instructions provided and actually complaining and trying to wreck the efforts, attempting at times to overrule the local PM's measures when his rich and powerful friends whinged about the measures being bad for their share holders, but in the end, he realized he would be in such deep **** if he did that, he sort of forgot about his/their demands along the way. So, no thanks to the federal government and thanks to the state governments. I'm sure@Guard Dogwould appreciate the morale of that story ;)

edit: When Scott Morrison tried to order the states to open their state borders, the state PM's pretty much just said **** you, and deployed state police to the borders to enforce the border closures, ignoring the barking of Clive Palmer and the whimpering yipping of his pet dog (the federal PM). Queensland probably build enough walls on the border to New South Wales to make Trump green with envy 😁

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Actually, kudos for that to the state governments, regardless of political affiliation. The moron in Canberra did what he does best in a crisis situation, nothing.

 

They formed a national council kind of thing between state PM's and sorted it out, coordinating stuff. The federal governments only contribution was to follow the instructions provided and actually complaining and trying to wreck the efforts, attempting at times to overrule the local PM's measures when his rich and powerful friends whinged about the measures being bad for their share holders, but in the end, he realized he would be in such deep **** if he did that, he sort of forgot about his/their demands along the way. So, no thanks to the federal government and thanks to the state governments. I'm sure @Guard Dogwould appreciate such things actually happening somewhere in the world ;)

 

I hear you but without debating the semantics of who is responsible for the Oz lockdown measures what is the real debate should be "has it effectively stopped the virus spread " ?

That should be the most important factor in how we reflect on our numerous governments measures and plans and if they are indeed draconian. This is a good example of " the end justifies the means" ...its not often we should look at policies in this way but this is IMO definitely an acceptable example to support that aphorism 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I hear you but without debating the semantics of who is responsible for the Oz lockdown measures what is the real debate should be "has it effectively stopped the virus spread " ?

It has. Covid is easy to stop. Prevent people from moving around. Wear masks. Use hand sanitizer after touching anything, keep social distance. The problem is peoples selfishness. I don't want to. Why should *I* wear a mask. Joe got sick and he wore a mask all the time! (never mind Joe went to a basket ball game where 4500 people in the crowd had covid and werent wearing masks) etc. I.e. lockdown is great, as long as it doesn't inconvenience *me*

 

The Me is the problem. Rather than thinking how can I and We solve this, it's always how can You solve this for me? It's all about attitude (and I would say enlightenment, as the Britannica puts it, the celebration of reason)

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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