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Politics... US election edition


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There have certainly been presidents who have shifted us towards authoritarianism, some much more strongly than was warranted given the crises of the day, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a genuinely cult-like fervor for an openly autocratic leader that wished they were dictator, and whose millions of followers wished the same (and tens of millions of more who thought nothing much of it so long as they got what they wanted out of it - I can't help but think of parallels to the rise of Nazism in Germany). The next four years should help elucidate whether that was a momentary error, or the trend of something much more deeply frightening in our society - my money is on the latter. These kinds of moments don't usually occur in a vacuum or out of nowhere, even if they feel like they do at the time...and based on the ever increasing disparities between what people want or feel like they need, as well as life just generally not being as good, prosperous, and/or stable for most compared to decades past, I imagine it's only going to get worse.

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Take the words of an expert in democracy, the election was rigged!

 

Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko: "The bastion of democracy... Look at what's going on with this election. It is a shame, a mockery of the democracy"

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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I was watching an interesting prediction on CNN around what could be the next steps for Trump

Once he accepts he has lost he will create " Trump TV " which will compete directly with FOX news..its an interesting and possible idea? But can you imagine the reality of FOX news on steroids around hyperbole and conspiracy theories :blink::blink:

.....  which will be what Trump TV is going to be about 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Take the words of an expert in democracy, the election was rigged!

 

Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko: "The bastion of democracy... Look at what's going on with this election. It is a shame, a mockery of the democracy"

All Putins close allies are paradigms  and excellent examples of reasonable and Democratic leadership 

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

All Putins close allies are paradigms  and excellent examples of reasonable and Democratic leadership 

Paragons Bruce... paragons ;)

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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1 minute ago, Gorth said:

Paragons Bruce... paragons ;)

 

Agreed :thumbsup:

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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36 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I was watching an interesting prediction on CNN around what could be the next steps for Trump

Once he accepts he has lost he will create " Trump TV " which will compete directly with FOX news..its an interesting and possible idea? But can you imagine the reality of FOX news on steroids around hyperbole and conspiracy theories :blink::blink:

.....  which will be what Trump TV is going to be about 

Fathers love your sons and let them know it.  We see what happens when you don't.

Edited by Malcador
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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

There have certainly been presidents who have shifted us towards authoritarianism, some much more strongly than was warranted given the crises of the day, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a genuinely cult-like fervor for an openly autocratic leader that wished they were dictator, and whose millions of followers wished the same (and tens of millions of more who thought nothing much of it so long as they got what they wanted out of it - I can't help but think of parallels to the rise of Nazism in Germany).

Orange man undoubtedly enjoyed the cult of personality being built around him. But he did not mean to tear up the Constitution. He didn't intend to remake society from the ground up, or favor violence as the ultimate political tool. A reactionary, racist populist with a penchant for abusing executive power? Sure, and that's bad enough. Not an actual potential Führer though and, memes aside, I doubt that any more than a very marginal fraction of his supporters would seriously endorse Trump taking up absolute power for life.

I expect the American left to go back to sleep for the most part on material struggles now that they've "won", and keep focused on (trigger warning: bad word) idpol and climate change, which virtually guarantees that Trump-like figures will keep turning up as a candidates with considerable pull -- only now there's the risk of them being both competent and driven.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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9 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

Why not? 

You said it's important. 

Usually the person putting a thesis forward needs to prove it. 

I do not see why it would be important. 

 

I do see this however 

A person with miniscule support during dems primaries, will be de facto a prssident, when they will pull Biden from the white house in mid 2021, due to "health conditions and being unable to work in full capacity" 

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Yeah, I don't give a crap about Trump, he's been defeated and there's no real sign that he's not going to leave office (voluntarily or otherwise). The second half of my post is what I'm worried about - the fact that such a clear and pathetic wannabe-dictator (even if it's purely for his own self-gratification and nothing else) has such a cult of personality and half of our population is just cool with it while gladly promoting his various forms of hatred and authoritarianism. It seems likely they're going to be looking for another to rally around (especially because he only just barely lost the election in this gamed electoral system), and the next one that comes along is likely to have much grander ideas and be a lot more competent. A 'true believer' is much more dangerous than whatever sorry mess Trump passed for.

(edit): Identity politics suck. It's been a huge part of the Democrats' platform for a while, and it seems to be an increasingly large part of the Republicans' lately as well (in their own twisted way). Bernie Sanders was my guy for a reason, and that reason was that he talked about real issues pretty consistently while only paying lip service to garbage like identity politics. (...Also, I liked the way he handled gun control for a progressive, although he was admittedly forcibly pushed left of where he seemed he wanted to be in his 2020 run, which kind of sucked, but I can accept one little failing on the man, especially in the current political climate. Perfection is the enemy of God, after all, :p.)

Edited by Bartimaeus
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3 hours ago, Gorth said:

Take the words of an expert in democracy, the election was rigged!

 

Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko: "The bastion of democracy... Look at what's going on with this election. It is a shame, a mockery of the democracy"

Well, people were adamant for few years now about listening to the experts. And who is a better expert on mockery of democracy then good old Alex? If he says there was something wrong with US election I believe him wholeheartly 😉

@Gromnir care to explain what the ruling of judge Alito about votes in PA means?

Edited by Skarpen
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1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

 care to explain what the ruling of judge Alito about votes in PA means?

Not Gromnir, but ruling has little impact, as ballots that arrived after election day 8 PM were already separated from others and have not been included in current tally and USPS reported that they had processed less than 5k of those ballots, so as things currently stand they don't impact outcome of PA's result regardless of decision if they should or should not included in final result. Ruling will only move day when PA is able to give final count.

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5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

There have certainly been presidents who have shifted us towards authoritarianism, some much more strongly than was warranted given the crises of the day, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a genuinely cult-like fervor for an openly autocratic leader that wished they were dictator, and whose millions of followers wished the same (and tens of millions of more who thought nothing much of it so long as they got what they wanted out of it - I can't help but think of parallels to the rise of Nazism in Germany). The next four years should help elucidate whether that was a momentary error, or the trend of something much more deeply frightening in our society - my money is on the latter. These kinds of moments don't usually occur in a vacuum or out of nowhere, even if they feel like they do at the time...and based on the ever increasing disparities between what people want or feel like they need, as well as life just generally not being as good, prosperous, and/or stable for most compared to decades past, I imagine it's only going to get worse.

authoritarianism has always been the default setting of any organization

it is just more easy to do and say horrible things in tough times

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5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

You said it's important. 

Usually the person putting a thesis forward needs to prove it. 

I do not see why it would be important. 

 

I do see this however 

A person with miniscule support during dems primaries, will be de facto a prssident, when they will pull Biden from the white house in mid 2021, due to "health conditions and being unable to work in full capacity" 

Do you understand why Ruby Bridges is important?

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13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Trump is the first president in over 150 years not to have any kind of pets (...animals that aren't humans, I mean, before anyone cracks any jokes) at the White House. There is apparently a widely held belief that Trump hates dogs (his frequent use of comparing people he doesn't like to them certainly does nothing to help dispel that), so at the very least, @Guard Dog should be happy to know that there will be canines in and at the White House once again, :p. Though I wonder...if Trump hated dogs, was it because dogs hated him? 🤔

Nah. No first dog will ever measure up to Checkers. He was the only piece of political graft in US history  no one had trouble with! 
 

actually come to think of it I’m not sure checkers lived long enough to become first dog. I’ll have to look that one up.

 

Edit: he didn’t. Checkers died in 1965 at age 13 oh well

Edited by Guard Dog

Get off my lawn!

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9 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

How is the person, who took to her own a voice and a stand against segregation relevant to this point? 

Ruby Bridges was 6 years old, so I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. But if you do not see the parallel, I don't really know what to tell you. I can only speak for myself, but I see a tremendous amount of hope and inspiration in that image. As I said, I hope everyone can see it. 

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LOL. When I scanned  through the posts I thought you guys were talking about Ruby Ridge. Big freaking difference!

Get off my lawn!

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3 hours ago, IndiraLightfoot said:

The spirit of Ronald Reagan can wake up from his nightmare now...

 

 

video not available in this country. which speech?

while am waiting, am gonna offer an alternative. is a speech from george w. bush delivered 'bout a week after 9/11.

George W. Bush congratulates Joe Biden on winning White House, sending message to GOP about election’s outcome

aside: @Hurlshot we watched snl last night for the first time in years, by accident. we were looking for a football game and happened to see the snl opening credits (missed the cold open.) we watched the dave chappelle monologue, and am glad we did.

folks who stopped listening to your clip before they got to 14:31 did selves a genuine diservice.

one more quick aside, am knowing we said young voters cannot be counted on for the next election. truth. however, am thinking with all the applause being showered on various groups for their effort to make the historic change in georgia and elsewhere possible, am seeing far less credit being given to young people. as much as Gromnir personal pokes fun at young people over a laundry list o' what we perceive as faults, regardless o' party affiliation, they came out and voted and as it turns out, their contribution to American democracy were pivotal.

congratulations to young voters. you have our genuine and profound thanks. 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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