How to use Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming with ranged weapons

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

Can anyone confirm it?

Yes it's the same for me but the double Powder Burns only happens on one enemy. Others get only one application of Powder Burns. At least that's what I've observed.

[Kaylon]

11 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Yes it's the same for me but the double Powder Burns only happens on one enemy. Others get only one application of Powder Burns. At least that's what I've observed.

For me it hits twice all enemies in the AoE:

[Elric Galad]

15 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Yes it's the same for me but the double Powder Burns only happens on one enemy. Others get only one application of Powder Burns. At least that's what I've observed.

Are you using Carnage and Powder Burn indicator mod ?

[Kaylon]

5 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Are you using Carnage and Powder Burn indicator mod ?

No, I'm using just the Unity Console.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

The PL scaling is not only for spells but abilities, the really weird thing is the non-scaling ones. 

It is right for abilities using weapon, they benefit also from the weapon's quality bonus , but every abilities are not concerned, like FF in vanilla game, or the Trickster's spells wich are abilities. 

Swift flurry also do that, and if you empower Confounding Blind, you can see a 2.5 pen and 10 acc bonus in combat log.

I'm the defender of PL scaling because, like for AR instead of DR, I think this is a major improvement in Pillars of Eternity. 

Ok I will try to explain the problem in a nutshell (I will be simplifying A BIT). I think this would require its own thread anyway.

 

"Basically", there are 4 kinds of scaling :

A - Scaling from weapon quality (Unarmed Scaling is close enough to belong here, even if it has a couple differences). +1 PEN, +15% additive damages and about +4 Acc per quality level.

B - PL scaling from Weapon Attack Abilities such as Rogue Strikes. 5% multiplicative damages and duration for each PL above Ability Tier.

C - Intrinsic non Weapon Attack Ability Scaling, purely based on Ability Tier. For Each Tier above 1, the ability gets +2 Acc and +0.5 PEN.

D - PL scaling from non Weapon Attack Abilities. 5% multiplicative damages and duration, +1 Acc, +0.25 PEN for each PL above Ability Tier. Also +1 bounce and +1 projectile for each 2 PL above ability Tier.

 

So :

- An Auto attack will get A so it keeps up with enemy defences.

- A Weapon Attack Ability will get A and B so it keeps up with enemy defences and get benefits from PL.

- A non Weapon Attack Ability will get C and D so it keeps up with enemy defences and gets benefits from PL.

 

The A, B, C, D values are balanced so that all abilities scale about the same. The benefits from A+B are roughly equivalent to C+D. (It doesn't mean A is equivalent to C and B to D ; D provides strictly more benefits than C).

All the above would be great design (and for most part is) if not for some exceptions.

 

The issue is that some "non-weapon attack abilities" are still weapon based. Riposte is a "Weapon ability" but not a "Weapon Attack Ability". 

 

In the very case we are speaking about, WotW gets A+C and maybe also B and/or D.

 

I think that FF gets A and D (it's level 1, so no C anyway).

 

I have other worries. Passive Abilities for example usually don't get bonus from PL. But I moded them so they at least get the Acc and PEN PL bonus.

I'm also concerned about Unique Weapon activable abilities that could get bonuses from both A and D type (hence big Acc and PEN !). Thunderous Report has always seemed more efficient than it should...

Edited December 29, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Constentin Lévine]

Ah it is more clear, I knew these rules and it is right all abilities doesnt follow them in the same place. Maybe the developpers would have nerfed WotW with the changes of somes keywords in gamedata, but I dont think for Riposte or Swift Flurry : they are Abilities using Weapon(s) characteristics, then Weapon Attack Abilities, in other case the attack used should have an action time from the weapon. I dont know about Riposte (passive) why that scale but not Driving Flight's bounces. Maybe this last scaled in the first version of the game, and it was unbalanced, I dont know.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Constentin Lévine

[Elric Galad]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:34 AM, NotDumbEnough said:

I think WotW would be slightly less OP if all your attacks didn't gain extra penetration and accuracy as if it was a spell. Riposte, Mob Stance and Retaliation all do something similar but they are much more passive in nature and you can't force them to trigger.

Or remove the invisibility so that you can't use it with the cape that lets you stun on hit. I wonder if it would also mean that you could get hit while you use WotW.

I confirm that the same applies to Heart of Fury and Whirling Strikes (Whirling Strikes do not benefit from additional PL beyond 8, but that's because it was buggy anyway).

I confirm that the same does NOT apply to Clear Out, Flagellang Path and their respective upgrade.

Clear Out has this weird double attacks on Main Target though. I would gladly trade it for a proper AoE display.