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On 6/24/2020 at 10:22 AM, dunehunter said:

Actually Effort is a very strong weapon because the Maiming enchantment. It is 15% of your TOTAL damage as raw damage per 3 second for 6 second, so with 10 INT, its 0, 3, 6 second 3 ticks equals to extra 45% raw damage in total, which can be extended by more invest into INT. It's like a weaker version of Axe bleeding cut and you get Effort in the very early part of the game.

Imo for pure dps aspect, Effort is better than Voidwheel or any other gswords, unless u want the self-damage part of voidwheel to get wounds and etc. Basically there are three big factor of damage you do, 1) basic damage and damage bonus, 2) lash, 3) wounding DoT, you want all the three part to be high to do more damage. For example, a bleakwalker/assassin can do up to 300 (900 if including DoT) damage in one shot with backstab, greataxe and FoD.

Maiming does 15% total damage, not 15% more dmg every 3s... In fact it does 5% raw dmg every 3s (3 times with 10INT) and it doesn't stack, which means adding more INT won't increase the total bleed damage (if you hit always the same target). If you attack every 3s it's like having a sword with 5% lash, if you attack faster it's even less  - not even close to the dps Voidwheel can produce (20% lash and 25% chance to proc Necrotic Lance)...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

Maiming does 15% total damage, not 15% more dmg every 3s... In fact it does 5% raw dmg every 3s (3 times with 10INT) and it doesn't stack, which means adding more INT won't increase the total bleed damage (if you hit always the same target). If you attack every 3s it's like having a sword with 5% lash, if you attack faster it's even less  - not even close to the dps Voidwheel can produce (20% lash and 25% chance to proc Necrotic Lance)...

No it’s 15% of dam per 3 sec. It’s true if you keep attacking one enemy because it doesn’t stack with itself, but like Boeroer said if u attack between enemies or do aoe attacks it’s very nice. Also for bosses that has high resolve, usually your DoT last within 3 sec, then it doesn’t matter if stack or not, still better than voidwheel because if it lasts 3 sec than it’s 15+15=30% dot in total.

Edited by dunehunter
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Voidwheel's Necrotic Lance profits from all dmg bonuses that also would apply to the weapon (+dmg from weapon quality, Sneak Attack and so on). That makes it devastating, especially on Rogue or Rogue/something (once it procs).

I choose Effort as a Wizard/something from time to time to give it to an Essential Phantom. Besides the raw DoT it also can do kind of a "Vengeful Defeat" where it attacks all foes in range when the Phantom gets slain.

That enchantment (it's called Vaillant Demise iirc) does stack with other on-knockout effects like Vengeful Defeat from Barb. You can get two Rings of Reset with an exported "mule" character and then go KO three times in every encounter without suffering an injury. ;)


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Posted (edited)

Voidwheel necrotic lance targets fortitude as the same spell does, I think it will work well on small creeps and minor bosses, but doubt it will work on big bosses like Dorudugon.

Btw doesn’t Ring of rest only has 3 charges?

Edited by dunehunter

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10 minutes ago, dunehunter said:

Voidwheel necrotic lance targets fortitude as the same spell does, I think it will work well on small creeps and minor bosses, but doubt it will work on big bosses like Dorudugon.

to be fair, very few things work on bosses like Dorudugan, I'm not sure that should be the filtering criterion.

 

also, morning stars are your friend. all the -25 defense debuffs are great, but for some reason the effects i really want to land seem to be fortitude...

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, dunehunter said:

Btw doesn’t Ring of rest only has 3 charges?

If you have two of them (1 exported) you can stack them in the stash and they reload. 

Same with Necklace of Fireballs, Missile Gloves, Stone of Power and so on. If it has charges or per-rest uses you can form stacks and they get reloaded. Most of them have multiple instances in the game so you don't even need to export anything.

Having two Rings of Reset is cheesy of course but it's the only way to make a fun build with Vengeful Defeat (which is otherwise too punishing because of the injuries).

Edited by Boeroer
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17 hours ago, dunehunter said:

No it’s 15% of dam per 3 sec. It’s true if you keep attacking one enemy because it doesn’t stack with itself, but like Boeroer said if u attack between enemies or do aoe attacks it’s very nice. Also for bosses that has high resolve, usually your DoT last within 3 sec, then it doesn’t matter if stack or not, still better than voidwheel because if it lasts 3 sec than it’s 15+15=30% dot in total.

Even if it's 15% dmg every 3s, it's not a 30% lash because it doesn't stack - it will just add 15% more dmg every 3s, no matter your attack speed. Voidwheel (without the proc) will add 20% dmg with every attack  which even with an average 3s delay will outdps Effort easily. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

Even if it's 15% dmg every 3s, it's not a 30% lash because it doesn't stack - it will just add 15% more dmg every 3s, no matter your attack speed. Voidwheel (without the proc) will add 20% dmg with every attack  which even with an average 3s delay will outdps Effort easily. 

You made a point yeah, I think this really depends on enemies, for high resolve bosses, Effort ensures u to get at least two DoT ticks, the initial 15% DoT and another tick when wounding ends, in this case I'd say Effort is better, for trash mobs Voidwheel is better, also it's heavily depends on your attack speed.

Also if you have very low INT, you can ensure every time you hit with Effort after the old DoT ends, lets say you hit every 4 sec, and the DoT last 3 sec, then you can count it as 15 + 15 = 30% lash in this case, then you hit enemy again and you apply DoT on them again and so on. Really depends on builds.

Edited by dunehunter

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Posted (edited)

@Boeroer

How do you deal with the ridiculous amount of enemies at sea-lashed crypt?

There's like a bazillion fampyrs and summonable phantoms that burst you down in literally 2 sec with minoletta's minor missiles and ninagauth's killing bolt for 100+ damage. 

Also how do minoletta's missiles always hit me with 140-150 deflection and overpenetrate?

My out of combat stats are 126 DEF, 116 FOR, 112 REF, 152 WIL

102 ACC, 14 WPN Penetration, 11 Armor Rating, 195 HP.

19 might, 5 con, 9 dex, 17 per, 15 int, 26 resolve.

Then i have the cloak that gives +7 to all defenses if no ally is near you.

Entonia Signet Ring and Casita Samelia with 21 intimidation and ring of solitary wanderer, neck with +2 resolve and bracers with +3 acc.

I'm not sure what i should be doing differently, if anything.

I pop mirror images, llengrath's displaced image and try to use escape for +50 def when i can. Sometimes i'll be able to get an inspired beacon off but tbe action speed is ridiculously slow  that i'll almost always get interrupted and then just get burst down in ~2 seconds or less. 

My WotEP and Casita Samelia are both of Legendary Quality. 

Edited by Redsynja

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fyi,

minoletta's minor missiles strikes unerringly (no attack roll). 

ninagauth's killing bolt attacks fortitude - which is your lowest defense.

no amount of deflection protects you against either. i believe killing bolt does raw damage, so no amount of armor will protect you against that, either.

 

i'm guessing you're an inquisitor (trickster). invisibility can be a good way to get spells to whiff, though i don't know what specific build you may be referencing.

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Posted (edited)

I know NKB targets fortitude. I was just stating that it's one of the spells that nukes me super fast.

Thanks for explaining the missiles.

I'm Steel Garotte / Trickster. Even if i go invis the fampyrs still summon the phantoms and that means like 3-4 phantoms spamming missiles or killing bolt that i can't do anything about.

My damage is super trash as well against those higher level enemies like fampyrs so i can't just nuke 1 fast and then go invis and then re-engage.

The build i am playing is riposte/parry based. I saw @Boeroer talking about it.

 

Edited by Redsynja

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Posted (edited)

Are you soloing? I wouldn't recommend to play that solo (in a strict way). 

Against enemies with ranged and spell damage a large shield with modal works wonders until they stop spamming that stuff. I believe even Minor Missiles suffer the high dmg malus from "The Wall". You should have plenty of weapon proficiency points for stuff like that. 

Usually Minor Missiles shouldn't overpenetrate. They can't crit so your corrode/crush DR must be quite low...?

As I wrote elsewhere: such a setup is nice and fun against lots of melee attackers - but not very good against ranged ones (or spellcasters). That's why I wouldn't do it solo - and if I would I wouldn't stick to that setup too slavishly. 

Edited by Boeroer

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Posted (edited)

Yeah i am always soloing. PotD + Upscale.

I kind of gave up. It was manageable until that moment. I mean, i am not even halfway done with the game and Single enemy bosses seems absurd. 

Like you said it's superb when there are hordes of melee medicre powerful enemies but as soon as you start running into hordes of fampyrs, steel constructs or in general big single enemies which there are a good amount of, the build just doesn't do anything.

Edited by Redsynja

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Yes, then it's time to switch weapons to something that works better against single enemies. 


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Posted (edited)

Ningauth's Death Ray from Ningauth's Teachings grimoire is very usefull vs high AR enemies, like golems, due to its Raw damage type.

Might use a Morningstar with modal to knock their Fortitude down a notch. Also make sure you use the available hit conversion buffs, particularly Eldritch Aim from level 1. Merciless Gaze also helps.

 

If they are vulnerable to fire, Combusting Wounds would make a good combo with the Death Ray (and maybe Wall of Fire, Chillfog). Of course, most golems aren't vulnerable to fire AFAIR (in fact might heal from it). But this combo could help vs some other tough cookies.

Edited by Haplok

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1 hour ago, Haplok said:

Ningauth's Death Ray from Ningauth's Teachings grimoire is very usefull vs high AR enemies, like golems, due to its Raw damage type.

Might use a Morningstar with modal to knock their Fortitude down a notch. Also make sure you use the available hit conversion buffs, particularly Eldritch Aim from level 1. Merciless Gaze also helps.

 

If they are vulnerable to fire, Combusting Wounds would make a good combo with the Death Ray (and maybe Wall of Fire, Chillfog). Of course, most golems aren't vulnerable to fire AFAIR (in fact might heal from it). But this combo could help vs some other tough cookies.

I think OP want a melee greatsword build not a caster?

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Yeah, that's true. However I was under the impression recently that the discussion has moved to and Offensive Parry Riposte Arcane Knight, who can cast and passively retaliate at enemies, healing in the process.

Such a character could very well take advantage of these tactics.

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It was an Offensive Parry&Riposte Steel Garrote/Trickster.

The only construct that heals from burn damage is Dorudugan (the megaboss). The other Iron-/Steelclads are only immune.

Flame Naga will heal from burn damage though.

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Okay, then my comment really wasn't very relevant, sorry :)

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Was still about a great sword build though. So it has its place in this thread. :)

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On 7/2/2020 at 2:48 PM, dunehunter said:

I think OP want a melee greatsword build not a caster?

You are correct. I would like a great sword build that induces main damage.

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