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So, Version 1.3.2 is released :

Boil their flesh and upgrade :
0,5s/4s cast time
24-27 -> 48 - 54 corrode on near death kills

Magran's Priest version of Torrent of Flames (which they get at Tier 7 instead of 5) :
Cast with +15 accuracy and foe-only


Purge of Toxin :
30s -> 60s
0,5s/3s Cast time  (aligned with the priest single target "prayer" line of spell ; it was too weak for a single target situational Tier 3)

Beetle Shell :
0,5s/4,5s Cast time (aligned with Withdraw)

Fox & Farmer chant
Added -15 Reflex penalty to foes

Carnage (also for Community Patch Stag Spritishift) :
Added +1 Accuracy per PL as for other abilities

Pet Stag Carnage :
Added +1Acc, +0.25 PEN and +5% Multiplicative damages as for other abilities


EDIT :
White Wurms & upgrades :
Corrected the "bug" that required to hit the corpse to trigger the explosion


Added a bunch of Acid/Decay/Poison/Disease Keyword that were missing
(see the mod for details, also apply to priest and scrolls equivalent of these spells) 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/438

Edited by Elric Galad
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What do you think of adding the Electricity keyword to a Monk's Lightning Strikes? Maybe for synergy with Deltro's Cage or Heart of the Storm.

 

Edit: hmm, tried this but didn't work: (the keyword shows up but no extra penetration from Heart of the Storm)

 

{
    "GameDataObjects": [
        {
            "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "Lightning_Strikes",
            "ID": "3c85e6b0-275a-43b5-9b6f-da86f5e26be7",
            "Components": [{
                "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                "KeywordsIDs": ["117213bd-8bb0-4a70-9626-581a20214c2f","9c7d6f36-50ff-4b08-a528-74789abe0599"]
            }]
        }
    ]
}

 

 

Edited by saltynoodles
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3 hours ago, saltynoodles said:

What do you think of adding the Electricity keyword to a Monk's Lightning Strikes? Maybe for synergy with Deltro's Cage or Heart of the Storm.

Edit: hmm, tried this but didn't work: (the keyword shows up but no extra penetration from Heart of the Storm)

The idea is legit. As you tested it won't work with Heart of the Storm (it would have required attacks to be Lightning tagged, but this would cause Lightning Immune to be immune to monk attack, so it won't be that great). But it will work with Deltro's Cage and Chromoprismatic staff (will only increase duration, but still a nice interaction.

Draconic Fury will have to be Fire tagged for consistency (it provides a Fire lash).

I think about Fire and Ice tagging Dichotomous Soul. Still only provides increase spell duration but I feel it would be a nice touch too. I'm not favorable about tagging a summon just because it does a certain type of damages, but the twins are literally made of the said elements. Fire Stag is fire tagged so the twins shall be tagged too.

I'm going to wait a bit, gather a couple of ideas and (bug) feedbacks before releasing a new version though.

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@Elric GaladIs there a way to check whether the Torc of the Falcon’s Eyes is part of the random loot list? Or perhaps it should be sold by a merchant but isn’t showing up because bugs?

 

It’s in the game’s resources and has a brand new, spiffy icon that isn’t the same as in the first game—yet it seems nobody’s ever found it since the game released.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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1 minute ago, AndreaColombo said:

@Elric GaladIs there a way to check whether the Torc of the Falcon’s Eyes is part of the random loot list? Or perhaps it should be sold by a merchant but isn’t showing up because bugs?

 

It’s in the game’s resources and has a brand new, spiffy icon that isn’t the same as in the first game—yet it seems nobody’s ever found it since the game released.

Loot list : I don't think so.

Vendors ? 

If people here tells me it is indeed nowhere, I could add it to a vendor of your choice. Worst case scenario : it would be one additional occurence of an existing item. It is not a specially strong one, so it won't really cause powercreeping.

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Any vendor is fine for me; let’s see what other people think :)

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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45 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

The idea is legit. As you tested it won't work with Heart of the Storm (it would have required attacks to be Lightning tagged, but this would cause Lightning Immune to be immune to monk attack, so it won't be that great). But it will work with Deltro's Cage and Chromoprismatic staff (will only increase duration, but still a nice interaction.

Draconic Fury will have to be Fire tagged for consistency (it provides a Fire lash).

I think about Fire and Ice tagging Dichotomous Soul. Still only provides increase spell duration but I feel it would be a nice touch too. I'm not favorable about tagging a summon just because it does a certain type of damages, but the twins are literally made of the said elements. Fire Stag is fire tagged so the twins shall be tagged too.

I'm going to wait a bit, gather a couple of ideas and (bug) feedbacks before releasing a new version though.

Cool, thanks for explaining. Tagging Dichotomous Soul sounds good too.

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One more thing—is it possible to make the Minoletta's Minor Missiles cast by Spearcaster's Arcane Bolts scale with Power Level?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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2 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

One more thing—is it possible to make the Minoletta's Minor Missiles cast by Spearcaster's Arcane Bolts scale with Power Level?

I'm quite reluctant to go in this direction, even if I feel it could be legit.

I had a glimpse of everything wrong about scaling from passive abilities. I would suspect there is a bunch of weirdly scaling issue within item abilities.
If I had at least a "general rule" about how items scale or not (I think special attacks from weapons scale sometimes with weapon quality as I found when fixing Magran's Blessing), I could estimate how much work it would require to fix them all.
Is spearcaster an exception or a rule ? If this is the rule and the rule is rotten, it would require a lot of work to make everything right.

So if anyone can make a few test and inform me about the situation, it would be great. How are activated abilities ? How are attacks triggered on event ? Do they get weapon quality bonus ? If yes, do weapon "passive" abilities scale better than non-weapon ones ? Are there known exceptions ?
For now, I prefer avoiding any commitment about items.

Honnestly, this kind of testing could have its own thread. Findings would interest everybody including people not crazy about mods.

Edited by Elric Galad
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What I have in mind currently :

Graceful Retreat :
Monk Tier 2 passive that grants +12 vs disengagement attacks. Basically a lesser tumbling that probably exists only to compensate the absence of fast runner. 
I would advocate adding it a mere +5 Reflex so it's not entirely worse than tumbling. It's really weak at the moment.

Inspired Defenses :
Used to be +2 AR before being cut in half. Now it's only a +1 AR that doesn't work in many cases and require high INT to have a chance work vs a single attacker.
Maybe the nerf was in a wrong direction. Maybe they should have kept the +2 AR but lowered duration to 2s so it won't usually work vs single attacker.
I'm unsure about it. Currenlty it feels meh but I can see it become degenerately good.

Spell Resistance :
We know from Mage Slayer example that spell resistance is situationnal. This ability also happens to be lowish.

I'm thinking about setting it to 15% resistance.


Tier 7 Empower Talents :
This is basically a bunch of meh talent about Empower which aren't very great to begin with. The issue is that there is a couple of case where Empower is good (Missile Salvo, Elf Nary, Inner Death + Empowered Strike), so buffing them could cause some balance issues.
I don't want to do more that changing their numbers. Don't want to waste to much effort on such low used abilities.
Here are my thoughs :
- Penetrating Empower : could be set to +4 PEN without much risk. Empowered abilities already get some additional PEN from PL so this one would essentially ensure your ability will penetrate. With only +4 PEN, the risk of double PEN isn't so high and would be limited to +30% damages in SOME CASES only, which doesn't seem too degenerate for an ability point.
- Accurate Empower : could be set +20 IMHO.  (EDIT : +15 Accuracy would be enough) +10 is too low for a single attack. Once more, this one is more an assurance than anything. Benefit from Accuracy are capped by nature.
- Lasting Empower : could honnestly be set to +100% without much risk. I don't see many case where buff or debuff applied this way could break the game. It does only apply to Inspiration and Affliction (and changing it has been proved to be tricky by the Community Patch)
- Potent Empower : the tricky one. Contrary to Acc or PEN, the benefit from additional damages isn't capped. Could be set to +40% but might be degenerate with stuff like Missile salvo (EDIT : +30% damages would be enough).


Great Soul :
Currently a worthless talent.
I'm considering to upgrade it to the effect of Luminous Bath (+1 Empower Point but also additional ressource). And recall it ""Luminous Soul" for consistency
I would probably rebalance Luminous Bath ressource effect this way :
- Martials : + 1 ressource

- Chanter : + 1 phrase
- Cipher : +20 Focus
- Casters : +1 Tier 1 and +1 Tier 2 spells.
It would worth taking in this case, mostly for martials but still. I would have to check it stacks properly with Luminous Bath effect.


What do you think ?

Edited by Elric Galad
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You might have caught this already but just in case: The output_log.txt mentions this error with cl.druid.tornado.gamedatabundle:

"GameDataBundleLoadException: Failed to load game data bundle '': The first property on a component must be '$type' (object: 'Lord_Darryns_Voulge_Tornado_AoE') (ln 59 col 34)".

Edited by Kvellen
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On 10/25/2020 at 7:54 AM, Elric Galad said:

Graceful Retreat :
Monk Tier 2 passive that grants +12 vs disengagement attacks. Basically a lesser tumbling that probably exists only to compensate the absence of fast runner. 
I would advocate adding it a mere +5 Reflex so it's not entirely worse than tumbling. It's really weak at the moment.

I suppose the intended design is that Monks don't get Fast Runner, they get to choose between two stronger skills that split the functionality. It does seem quite weak, though it comes 2 tiers before Tumbling, and you can get both. Instead of flat +Defense, how about 50% Graze > Miss vs. DIsengagement attacks? Similar to Adept Evasion, but for disengagement, and less strong, because Tier 2. 

More thoughts on the other parts of this, but will need to reply a little later.

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It does stack with Tumbling and all other sources of defl. against diseng. att. though. That means it's def. not worthless - even if it's worse than Tumbling. But that's no surprise since it's tier 2. Thus, as a Monk you can stack very high amounts of deflection against disengagement attacks, especially when multiclassing: if you multiclass you get Fast Runner, too - which also stacks with the rest as well.

The only things that make all those abilites around +def. gainst diseng. att. truly useless are Nomad's Brigandine and Gipon Prudensco because they do not make you immune to engagment (see Grog pet or certain other stuff) but instead they give you immunity against the disengagement attacks themselves (basically 100% crit+hit+graze to miss conversion). 

In my opinion it doesn't need a boost. But +5 Reflex is hardly making a big difference so I personally wouldn't oppose that bonus. 

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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2 hours ago, Kvellen said:

You might have caught this already but just in case: The output_log.txt mentions this error with cl.druid.tornado.gamedatabundle:

"GameDataBundleLoadException: Failed to load game data bundle '': The first property on a component must be '$type' (object: 'Lord_Darryns_Voulge_Tornado_AoE') (ln 59 col 34)".

Nope, I will check this.

1 hour ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

I suppose the intended design is that Monks don't get Fast Runner, they get to choose between two stronger skills that split the functionality.

Yes, I think it was the purpose.

Quote

It does seem quite weak, though it comes 2 tiers before Tumbling, and you can get both. Instead of flat +Defense, how about 50% Graze > Miss vs. DIsengagement attacks? Similar to Adept Evasion, but for disengagement, and less strong, because Tier 2. 

I don't want to change too much abilities (source of bugs too). And I have already coded the change 🙂 (I was waiting for feedbacks about the other proposed changes but this one seemed rather painless). I also wanted to keep the stackability with Tumbling because...

30 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

It does stack with Tumbling and all other sources of defl. against diseng. att. though. That means it's def. not worthless - even if it's worse than Tumbling. But that's no surprise since it's tier 2. Thus, as a Monk you can stack very high amounts of deflection against disengagement attacks, especially when multiclassing: if you multiclass you get Fast Runner, too - which also stacks with the rest as well.

The only things that make all those abilites around +def. gainst diseng. att. truly useless are Nomad's Brigandine and Gipon Prudensco because they do not make you immune to engagment (see Grog pet or certain other stuff) but instead they give you immunity against the disengagement attacks themselves (basically 100% crit+hit+graze to miss conversion). 

In my opinion it doesn't need a boost. But +5 Reflex is hardly making a big difference so I personally wouldn't oppose that bonus. 

... the most obvious application is for Riposte or Imagined Pain builds. And even in this case, Nomad Brigandine is the easy choice. I don't like talents to have too narrow goals. And monks do have great choices to pick from so waiting for Tumbling was a too obvious possibility if one does not absolutely need to stack them. That's why I thought this one could have just a little more raw power. +5 Reflex is indeed small, but worth half a talent on its own.


I'm extremely curious about the proposed changes about the 5 Empower Talents and Inspired Defense by the way. I am really not sure what to do about them. (and to a lesser extant, spell resistant buff).

Edited by Elric Galad
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25 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

... the most obvious application is for Riposte or Imagined Pain builds. And even in this case, Nomad Brigandine is the easy choice. I don't like talents to have too narrow goals. And monks do have great choices to pick from so waiting for Tumbling was a too obvious possibility if one does not absolutely need to stack them.

I think the most obvious application is not wanting to get hit by disengagement attacks. ;) For Monks who want to be very mobile it can be benefical to be able to disengage without too much risk early on in the game and improve that later without the use of unique items etc. But as I said: +5 Reflex is okay. 

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I'm extremely curious about the proposed changes about the 5 Empower Talents and Inspired Defense by the way. I am really not sure what to do about them. (and to a lesser extant, spell resistant buff).

Inspired Defense feels mostly okay as is to me. Maybe increase to 4 seconds? The drawback of it changing w/ another type of DMG still applies at 4 seconds, so it doesn't make it too strong, but guarantees it remaining up if you keep getting hit by one DMG type consistently. 

Spell Resistance @ 15% seems fine to me. I'm assuming spell resistance works like Hit conversion, where all the effects apply independently, rather than being added up, which helps to reduce the value of stacking this with other kinds. 

Empower Talents:

Adding some info to help with the discussion: 

  • Launch Empower: +10 PL (+10 ACC, +2.5 Pen, +50% DMG, +50% duration, +5 projectiles)
  • Vanilla "balanced" Empower: +5 PL (+5 ACC, +1.25 Pen, +25% DMG, +25% duration, +2.5 projectiles)

Current (w/ Community Patch) :

  • Penetrating Empower: +1 Pen (+2.25 total), worth +4 PL (+9 total w/ current empower)
  • Accurate Empower: +10 ACC (+15 total), worth +10 PL (+15 total)
  • Lasting Empower: +20% duration (+25% multiplicative +20% additive),  worth ~+4 PL (9 total)
  • Potent Empower: +20% DMG (+25% multiplicative +20% additive), worth ~+4 PL (9 total)

Proposed Change:

  • Penetrating Empower: +4 Pen (+5.25 total), worth +16PL (+21 total w/ current empower)
  • Accurate Empower: +15 ACC (+20 total), worth +15 PL (+20 total)
  • Lasting Empower: +100% duration (+25% multiplicative +100 additive), worth ~+20 PL (+25 total)
  • Potent Empower: +30% DMG (+25% multiplicative +30% additive) worth ~+6 PL (+11 total)

My thoughts:

  • These talents are available to Multi-class characters, so the risk of "degenerate combos" is more likely (and harder to test/predict)
  • PEN is usually the most valuable of the talents for a DMG ability, unless you already have very high ACC, so maybe +3 PEN (+4.25 net) is strong enough (talent is worth +12PL of PEN)
  • Lasting Empower is very weak as is (though more valuable with the Polishing Patch Brilliant and Salvation of Time nerf), so +100% additive seems fine. To test - how does this interact with Least Unstable Coil shenanigans? How does this interact with the most powerful/rare T3 Afflictions (Stunned, Paralyzed, Terrified)? 
  • Potent Empower is the least valuable of these for a DMG ability, and the most conservative bonus listed, but I don't think we need to be that conservative for an additive DMG source. Overpen gives +30%, Crit gives +50%, so you're almost always better picking one of those talents if you want to increase DMG. Granted you can stack these, but +50% feels like it competes here. It's the value of Deathblows once per fight. 
  • Accurate Empower +15 is strong. +20 ACC total is a solid # (compare with Borrowed Instincts, etc.) and should help guarantee an important attack lands or make a crit very likely

I'll comment on Great Soul in a bit. 

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On 10/25/2020 at 7:54 AM, Elric Galad said:

Great Soul :
Currently a worthless talent.
I'm considering to upgrade it to the effect of Luminous Bath (+1 Empower Point but also additional ressource). And recall it ""Luminous Soul" for consistency
I would probably rebalance Luminous Bath ressource effect this way :
- Martials : + 1 ressource

- Chanter : + 1 phrase
- Cipher : +20 Focus
- Casters : +1 Tier 1 and +1 Tier 2 spells.
It would worth taking in this case, mostly for martials but still. I would have to check it stacks properly with Luminous Bath effect.

I think those are pretty conservative bonuses and fit the design of having to rest less often.

Is the +1 phrase increasing the +1 Max phrase count? Is the focus for Cipher Max and starting focus? I think those would be strong. 

Currently +Max Power Pool effects are totally weird. How much of a lift would it be to recode those effects to give some version of the above? AFAIK, they don't work this way (totally worthless for casters, chanters, etc.)

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23 hours ago, Kvellen said:

You might have caught this already but just in case: The output_log.txt mentions this error with cl.druid.tornado.gamedatabundle:

"GameDataBundleLoadException: Failed to load game data bundle '': The first property on a component must be '$type' (object: 'Lord_Darryns_Voulge_Tornado_AoE') (ln 59 col 34)".

Found and corrected. Will be included in next release.

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Inspired Defense feels mostly okay as is to me. Maybe increase to 4 seconds? The drawback of it changing w/ another type of DMG still applies at 4 seconds, so it doesn't make it too strong, but guarantees it remaining up if you keep getting hit by one DMG type consistently. 

I don't know.
+1AR for an ability point feels okay, albeit powerful. Thick Skinned almost gives that + engagement. But I consider Thick Skinned to be a "beyond balance" passive (every classes has a couple of them, such as Stoic Steel, Deathblow, Deep Wound, Driving Flight, or the various modals). 
What I see now is a mere conditionnal +1AR, which doesn't seem too great. Plenty of cases where it won't work.
- Double types of damages
- Alternate foes with different damage type
- Single foe with attack speed < 3s+INT modifier

How much does it worths now ? Half an AR ? Half an AR is meh. But the old +2AR was too strong in a number of cases especially when one get hit by a single ennemy.

Quote

Spell Resistance @ 15% seems fine to me. I'm assuming spell resistance works like Hit conversion, where all the effects apply independently, rather than being added up, which helps to reduce the value of stacking this with other kinds. 

OK for this one, unless someone comes and claims it OP.

16 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

I think those are pretty conservative bonuses and fit the design of having to rest less often.

Is the +1 phrase increasing the +1 Max phrase count? Is the focus for Cipher Max and starting focus? I think those would be strong. 

Currently +Max Power Pool effects are totally weird. How much of a lift would it be to recode those effects to give some version of the above? AFAIK, they don't work this way (totally worthless for casters, chanters, etc.)

Unfortunately, there is no coded status that provides +1 Max Phrase to chanter.
What could be done is an increased phrase generation speed. Honnestly it won't be so bad to help SC Chanters to shine vs MC ones.
(got several men down yesterday when Fampyrs somehow reflected the Eld Narys that my SC Skald likes chaining...)
Something like +15% speed would fit. What do you think ?

For Casters, it's a small boost but +1 level 2 spell isn't going to destroy the balance.
For Cipher, it's doable to increase base and max focus.

Edit I don't think I will apply these changes to Luminous Bath cause it would cause powercreeping for Multiclass.

Edited by Elric Galad
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For inspired Defenses :
What about +1AR for 3s, but stacking 2 times (duration of the 1st AR isn't refreshed when the second hit occurs) ?
So would be around +1AR vs single target (with sufficient INT, unless dual damages) and +2AR when ganbanged.


 

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

IEmpower Talents:

Adding some info to help with the discussion: 

  • Launch Empower: +10 PL (+10 ACC, +2.5 Pen, +50% DMG, +50% duration, +5 projectiles)
  • Vanilla "balanced" Empower: +5 PL (+5 ACC, +1.25 Pen, +25% DMG, +25% duration, +2.5 projectiles)

And bounce 🙂
I suspect most of the problems of Empower came from the scaling of Bounce + Projectiles + multiplicative damages. 

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Proposed Change:

  • Penetrating Empower: +4 Pen (+5.25 total), worth +16PL (+21 total w/ current empower)
  • Accurate Empower: +15 ACC (+20 total), worth +15 PL (+20 total)
  • Lasting Empower: +100% duration (+25% multiplicative +100 additive), worth ~+20 PL (+25 total)
  • Potent Empower: +30% DMG (+25% multiplicative +30% additive) worth ~+6 PL (+11 total)

I'm not sure that we shall count +1 Acc, +0.25 PEN and +5% multiplicative damages as equals.
Consider that intresic spell level gives +2 Acc and +0.5 PEN per Tier, and is still pereceived to be less that what PL scaling provides to low spell.

There are talents that provide not too conditional +1 PEN (laugh in Cipher), +10% damages or +5 Accuracy. I would consider them vaguely equivalent for the purpose of damages (PEN being probably a bit ahead).
 

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

My thoughts:

  • These talents are available to Multi-class characters, so the risk of "degenerate combos" is more likely (and harder to test/predict)

Multiclasses do get Tier VII abilities, but 3 of them, at least 1 from each class. They can technically pick them but it's very constraining because there are very good abilities on this Tier (Deathblow, Dichotomous Soul, Unbending or Frenzy Upgrades, Stoic Steel, Ancient Weapon, Ancestor Memory to name a few).
Picking an Empower talent on this Tier is very committing for Multiclass. It doesnt' solve the problem, but it somewhat dampens it.

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:
  • PEN is usually the most valuable of the talents for a DMG ability, unless you already have very high ACC, so maybe +3 PEN (+4.25 net) is strong enough (talent is worth +12PL of PEN)

Yep, maybe. But I still think we could be a bit more generous with PEN. High level abilities are the most likely to be Empowered. They come with a natural +3-4 PEN scaling. You might have picked an elemental talent for it (I've added Acid KW on Missile Salvo...). Empower provides +1.25 itself. If penetrating with spells is a problem, you should have picked some food or source of Tenacious to deal with it. You will need it when Empower is consumed.
In normal cases you shouldn't have troubles with Penetrating at all.
This Talent simply ensure it isn't the case in the last few remaining scenarios (And maybe add double PEN to critical Strikes). That's why I think +4 is justified. The first points of added PEN are more useful than the following ones.

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:
  • Lasting Empower is very weak as is (though more valuable with the Polishing Patch Brilliant and Salvation of Time nerf), so +100% additive seems fine. To test - how does this interact with Least Unstable Coil shenanigans? How does this interact with the most powerful/rare T3 Afflictions (Stunned, Paralyzed, Terrified)? 

Consider that the main point of Empower is Action Economy and swinging the balance. 
Damages have an immediate effect.
Lasting stuff does not swing the balance immediately. It sorts of contradict with the goal of Empower. That's why I've been so generous.

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:
  • Potent Empower is the least valuable of these for a DMG ability, and the most conservative bonus listed, but I don't think we need to be that conservative for an additive DMG source. Overpen gives +30%, Crit gives +50%, so you're almost always better picking one of those talents if you want to increase DMG. Granted you can stack these, but +50% feels like it competes here. It's the value of Deathblows once per fight. 

+30% should provide a bit more damages than +15 Accuracy, at least for spells. For Martial abilities it's another thing.
+15 Accuracy is more reliable and versatile.

+50% would feel a bit too much. From stats +15 Accuracy from PER is the equivalent of +45% damages from might. But PER is more useful for Crowd Control which isn't the main point of Empower I think (damages are).

I'm not set on this and I'm waiting for more feedbacks.

18 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:
  • Accurate Empower +15 is strong. +20 ACC total is a solid # (compare with Borrowed Instincts, etc.) and should help guarantee an important attack lands or make a crit very likely

I think it's fine, but I'm still waiting a bit if some expert players have an opinion about it.

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On 10/26/2020 at 7:27 PM, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Inspired Defense feels mostly okay as is to me. Maybe increase to 4 seconds? The drawback of it changing w/ another type of DMG still applies at 4 seconds, so it doesn't make it too strong, but guarantees it remaining up if you keep getting hit by one DMG type consistently. 

I still have troubles deciding what to do with this Ability.

First issue is that it is directly supporting Paladin's style. So buffing it is a straightforward powercreeping, even if limited. It will add something to already existing build using it. People pick it. That doesn't mean it is a good ability, but it stacks.
EDIT : Dirty Fighting is also mehish, but stacks and works with everything so I didn't change it.

Second issue is that it is not clear if the intended design is to protect the Paladin vs single attacker. 3s can mean both. It is a very subtle case where it requires high INT and/or a fast attacker to work.
Increasing the duration as you suggest would solve part of the issue but would let the ability unefficient vs dual damages.

I think the ability could also be very focused on its main purpose : protecting vs a lot of similar attacks coming simultanneously such as firearms volley.
Something like +1AR Stackable 2 times for 2s could do the trick. It would be clear that it won't work vs Single Attacker, except in rare cases.
Neither a nerf nor a buff, just a rework.

EDIT : But maybe the stacking would make the ability over-complicated.
Increasing the duration to 4s or even 5s would make the ability a semi-reliable +1AR, which is good enough.
5s would have the advantage of truly covering single attacker (except dual type, but even in this case it would help compensating for armor type weaknesses). I think it's good if this ability clearly cover a type of situation without having to consider complicated stuff like the speed of an attacker and your own INT.

Edited by Elric Galad
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On 10/26/2020 at 7:27 PM, Ivanfyodorovich said:

My thoughts:

  • These talents are available to Multi-class characters, so the risk of "degenerate combos" is more likely (and harder to test/predict)
  • PEN is usually the most valuable of the talents for a DMG ability, unless you already have very high ACC, so maybe +3 PEN (+4.25 net) is strong enough (talent is worth +12PL of PEN)
  • Lasting Empower is very weak as is (though more valuable with the Polishing Patch Brilliant and Salvation of Time nerf), so +100% additive seems fine. To test - how does this interact with Least Unstable Coil shenanigans? How does this interact with the most powerful/rare T3 Afflictions (Stunned, Paralyzed, Terrified)? 
  • Potent Empower is the least valuable of these for a DMG ability, and the most conservative bonus listed, but I don't think we need to be that conservative for an additive DMG source. Overpen gives +30%, Crit gives +50%, so you're almost always better picking one of those talents if you want to increase DMG. Granted you can stack these, but +50% feels like it competes here. It's the value of Deathblows once per fight. 
  • Accurate Empower +15 is strong. +20 ACC total is a solid # (compare with Borrowed Instincts, etc.) and should help guarantee an important attack lands or make a crit very likely

After a long "meditation", I'm now lining toward a conservative approach. The issue with Passive is that they stacks with everything, so the powercreeping is more direct than with active.
I'm especially worried about "Empowered Salvo" builds and Accurate/Potent Empower.

I think an equivalent of a "+10 Stat boost" is the base of the balancing for these empowered talents, adjusted for following reason.

- Accurate Empower : I will let it at +10. +10 accuracy is a versatile bonus and help damages as well as Crowd Control.

- Potent Empower : An equivalent of +10 Might would lead to a +30% increase. However I consider immediate Damages to be the most direct purpose of Empower (Yes, I'm looking at you, Salvo and Maelstorm). Therefore, I will limit the buff to +25%. This is usually a bigger benefit for damages than Accurate Empower (at least for spells) and goes only a bit beyond what CP did.

- Lasting Empower : An equivalent of +10 Int would lead to a +50% increase. However, I consider Buff and Debuff to be much less in line with the direct purpose of Empower. In addition, Int would also increase AoE, and the bonus does not apply to non-inspiration/affliction duration. Therefore, a +more generous +75% duration bonus could work. +100% sounded a bit too much.
EDIT : even +75% sounds like power creeping. I will limit to +50%. The only reason why it would not have been to broken is because they aren't too many candidate spells to boost.
This Empower thing is really tough to deal with.

- Penetrating Empower : it's hard to say how much stat point PEN worths. I would say +10 stats could be around +2PEN. PEN could even worths a bit more than that in the general case. That said, I believe that PEN has decreased benefits and that there are other way than a specefic talent to ensure you do penetrate with your one Empowered ability (Elemental talents, Food, High level spells have naturally High PEN, Empower intresically added PEN, you can always empower another spell/weapon with suitable damage types, etc...). This is the reason why I believe this talent to be mostly a convenience. Even if I'm being conservative, I still think +3 PEN is suitable.

PS : Sorry for the internal dialogue with myself I'm having in the latest post. Writing here helps me consolidating my reasoning (in addition to potential feedbacks)

Edited by Elric Galad
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On 10/24/2020 at 7:43 PM, AndreaColombo said:

@Elric GaladIs there a way to check whether the Torc of the Falcon’s Eyes is part of the random loot list? Or perhaps it should be sold by a merchant but isn’t showing up because bugs?

 

It’s in the game’s resources and has a brand new, spiffy icon that isn’t the same as in the first game—yet it seems nobody’s ever found it since the game released.

Here it is :

gn.added_missing_torc_falcon.gamedatabundle

Do you think you could test this file ?

Just install it in a mod directory, restart the game if needed.
Test 1 : I've added it 1x to Una's shop. IJust go there. It should be there.
Test 2 : then leave the area and re-enter it. There should still be only one torc.

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Awesome, will try it over the weekend and let you know 👍

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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It works. Passed both tests :)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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