BruceVC Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) https://biblehub.com/context/leviticus/11-13.htm " These, moreover, you shall detest among the birds; they are abhorrent, not to be eaten: the eagle and the vulture and the buzzard, and the kite and the falcon in its kind, every raven in its kind, and the ostrich and the owl and the sea gull and the hawk in its kind, and the little owl and the cormorant and the great owl, and the white owl and the pelican and the carrion vulture, 1nd the stork, the heron in its kinds, and the hoopoe, and the bat. " I came across this when I was reading about the practice of globally eating bats, in both the Bible and Torah they basically mention people mustn't eat birds and bats. I was wondering what insights older civilizations of man knew that made them come to this conclusion..similar to views both Jews and Muslims have about not eating pork ( I love pork and its my favorite meat ). I would guess they would have experienced in there time period what we have now proven through our understanding of medical and scientific empirical evidence that people became sick and did contract diseases and viruses like Corona I am interested in what others may think is the reason these religious texts mentioned you mustn't eat animals like birds, pork and bats ? Edited April 23, 2020 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 Conclusions In the midst of the global COVID-19 public-health emergency, it is reasonable to wonder why the origins of the pandemic matter. Detailed understanding of how an animal virus jumped species boundaries to infect humans so productively will help in the prevention of future zoonotic events. For example, if SARS-CoV-2 pre-adapted in another animal species, then there is the risk of future re-emergence events. In contrast, if the adaptive process occurred in humans, then even if repeated zoonotic transfers occur, they are unlikely to take off without the same series of mutations. In addition, identifying the closest viral relatives of SARS-CoV-2 circulating in animals will greatly assist studies of viral function. Indeed, the availability of the RaTG13 bat sequence helped reveal key RBD mutations and the polybasic cleavage site. The genomic features described here may explain in part the infectiousness and transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 in humans. Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible. More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another. Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins. For example, a future observation of an intermediate or fully formed polybasic cleavage site in a SARS-CoV-2-like virus from animals would lend even further support to the natural-selection hypotheses. It would also be helpful to obtain more genetic and functional data about SARS-CoV-2, including animal studies. The identification of a potential intermediate host of SARS-CoV-2, as well as sequencing of the virus from very early cases, would similarly be highly informative. Irrespective of the exact mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 originated via natural selection, the ongoing surveillance of pneumonia in humans and other animals is clearly of utmost importance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azdeus Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Hiro Protagonist said: I was only interested in the science which the doctors were discussing. The guy in the documentary comes across as a tool with his propaganda. While I haven't watched it, with a starting point like that it is massively likely that it's been cut and recut to produce the interviews that he wants. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Azdeus said: While I haven't watched it, with a starting point like that it is massively likely that it's been cut and recut to produce the interviews that he wants. Well the science is compelling with splicing the virus, S proteins and things like HIV. The scientists and research heads find it unlikely that it was a natural jump from bats to humans. And it shows all the information that backs the research has been going on for years. Not one person has refuted the science presented - except for China. Edited April 23, 2020 by Hiro Protagonist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Zoraptor said: It does have to be said that Trump did not pull its name out of the blue and it was suggested and has been tested as a treatment by actual doctors. If it weren't for Trump trying to hype it as a miracle cure it would be in a 'worth a try, I guess' sort of category; unfortunately it seems to have been used mostly so Trump can claim that everything will be all right real soon now, trust him. I'm waiting for Fox News to catch wind of the tocilizumab and sarilumab trials being carried out, some time next week. Then those'll be Trump's new miracle drugs. At some point, they'll find a drug that 60% of the time, works every time. I expect Trump to tout each and every one of them as the snake oil salesman he is, and I expect the msm to point and laugh, just because orange man, regardless. Edited April 23, 2020 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, 213374U said: I'm waiting for Fox News to catch wind of the tocilizumab and sarilumab trials being carried out, some time next week. Then those'll be Trump's new miracle drugs. At some point, they'll find a drug that 60% of the time, works every time. I expect Trump to tout each and every one of them as the snake oil salesman he is, and I expect the msm to point and laugh, just because orange man, regardless. It would be nice if he advocates Traumakine next, hydroxychloroquine boom already increased my stock value quite lot (about +39%) (as Finland's largest pharmaceutical company Orion is one of the largest manufactures of hydroxychloroquine in world), and Traumakine is new drug from another big Finnish pharma company Faron that is tested to help in respiratory diseases. Its value has already increased during corona crisis for 20%, but I believe that it could even double its market value if Trump gives its drug free advertisement Edited April 23, 2020 by Elerond missing words 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Dammit. Why didn't I think of using Trump's endorsement to buy pharma stock. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/carolyn-goodman-las-vegas-coronavirus Quote Assume everybody is a carrier,” she told MSNBC’s Katy Tur. “And then you start from an even slate. And tell the people what to do. And let the businesses open and competition will destroy that business if, in fact, they become evident that they have disease, they’re closed down. It’s that simple.” Libertarian in action, almost. Edited April 23, 2020 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 6 hours ago, BruceVC said: I am interested in what others may think is the reason these religious texts mentioned you mustn't eat animals like birds, pork and bats ? Ill give it a shot. Lets start with, imo, "religious texts" were only ever meant to be a basic blueprint for an orderly society. Dont kill, cheat, steal, bang the neighbors wife, etc. Then lets assume that ancient man didnt have any concept of microbes. But he is an observant creature and notices that poorly prepared pork and fowl results in buttworms (Trichinella spiralis). He doesnt know why, only that it happens with those animal groups. So now he codifies the "unclean" nature of those animals and instructs that they should not be eaten. Or maybe space Jesus told them directly to their faces. Dunno. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I wonder what the body count over history has been in order for us to develop the universe of food we have now. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Malcador said: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/carolyn-goodman-las-vegas-coronavirus Libertarian in action, almost. Problem? The libertarian response would be: We SUGGEST you stay home. We SUGGEST you practice social distancing, wear masks, wash your hands, etc. We SUGGEST you close your businesses, or if not then at least enforce social distancing and masks in you businesses. If you choose not to do this and get sick then screw you. You asked for it. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Well, she's all into the "free market" fixing things, which libertarians always seem to be at the altar of. With this disease, not quite sure suggestion is all that great of an idea as some Gadsen flag wanker is going to make people sick who didn't ask for it. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Malcador said: Well, she's all into the "free market" fixing things, which libertarians always seem to be at the altar of. With this disease, not quite sure suggestion is all that great of an idea as some Gadsen flag wanker is going to make people sick who didn't ask for it. If you didn't keep your distance from that wanker, wear a mask, etc, or just stay home then you DID ask for it! I just assume everyone has it but me. But when a cop pulls someone over for driving while being non-essential, or arrests someone for fishing by themselves at a lake on private property as happened in Minnesota and Wisconsin over the last month this big brother bulls--t has gone too far and we should stand up and tell the government to go f--k itself. Edited April 23, 2020 by Guard Dog "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktchong Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) And this is why China and Chinese will win. Edited April 23, 2020 by ktchong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Guard Dog said: Problem? The libertarian response would be: We SUGGEST you stay home. We SUGGEST you practice social distancing, wear masks, wash your hands, etc. We SUGGEST you close your businesses, or if not then at least enforce social distancing and masks in you businesses. If you choose not to do this and get sick then screw you. You asked for it. all too often the libertarian explanation is requiring a level o' selfish stoopid untenable by most people. is why we speak o' personal liberties when we mention our libertarian streak. smoke in a crowded restaurant and describe as the smoker's choice is false, 'cause is every other proximate customer who will also suffer, and smoking is hardly a unique example. drunk driving. worker safety. toxic waste removal. etc. say is a choice for private citizens and business owners ignores fact we do not live like jeremiah johnson alone and independent. a libertarian's stoopid choices has costs for other people and is no financial or liberty punishment which will make those others whole. dump toxic waste and a bunch o' kids get cancer? depend on market to balance is obtuse. even a fine or imprisonment is hardly balancing the scales. free speech? the cost to community is typical that individuals may need hear a message they don't wanna hear. covid-19 is hardly as ez as free speech. how much liberty is you willing to give up to save lives? how many lives? social distance as a choice is aspirational but ignores realities. got five people genuine maintaining social distancing in a supermarket and all it takes is one libertarian making a (bad) choice to result in six people becoming infected. and yeah, all laws which is written facial neutral is gonna have injustice at the margins, which is why we don't have hal 2000 dispensing justice. sure, some overzealous cop may levy a citation 'pon a citizen for an innocuous behaviour which nobody ever contemplated would be punishable. human judges is s'posed to be able to recognize the place where injustice and the law inevitably overlap and make a ruling which protects citizens from law. regardless, depend on libertarians making choices or market forces to save us from covid-19 or secondhand smoke is an auto fail. HA! Good Fun! Edited April 23, 2020 by Gromnir 2 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Gromnir and you call me cynical? I think adults will act like adults when told they should do so without a gun (real or proverbial) to their head. I wouldn't be doing anything different is it wasn't mandatory. But then again never leaving home and having that activity sanctioned is sort of a dream come true for me. In fact the past few weeks I have been looking hard at my financial situation wondering if I have enough revenue generating investments to retire. I don't really. Not yet at least. That nest egg isn't ready to hatch. But if I could get by on $12k a year I'd totally do it. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Guard Dog said: @Gromnir and you call me cynical? I think adults will act like adults when told they should do so without a gun (real or proverbial) to their head. history and recent photographic evidence suggest otherwise. "i wouldn't be doing..." is irrelevant. as we noted, takes one libertarian who knows covid is a hoax in a supermarket to infect many. takes one libertarian capitalist dumping toxic waste on his own private land to poison an entire community. takes one drunk driver to cause an accident resulting in death o' a woman and her kids. assume most people is responsible is nice and swell and maybe even accurate, but it don't matter. the costs o' having a minority o' folks acting like ignoramuses is too high in too many cases. yeah, the argument that no cost is too high when human lives are at stake is also bs. like it or not, liberty does have an attendant body count. sounds callous but is unavoidable. we wouldn't have a reasonable person standard in law if people were invariable reasonable. would be no point in identifying behaviour as reckless if such recklessness never happened. a large enough sampling o' people results in a functional gurantee o' stoopid and selfish. people is predictable stoopid and selfish in enough numbers that it is irresponsible to ignore the need to protect innocent citizens from the stoopid and selfish. the costs is too high. HA! Good Fun! 3 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Comparing reasonable PPE & distancing to avoid a virus is hardly a like for like comparison to drunk driving or polluting where the behavior is reckless per se and the probable outcomes predictable. The person in the other lane does not know the driver that just crossed the median and is heading right at them is drunk and cannot defend themselves from it. Speaking from experience on that one. The guy drinking contaminated well water has no defense against the polluter. Malc's wanker with the Gadsen flag and no mask who may or may not be sick can be avoided by the smart person wearing one. You don't HAVE to come within 12' of them. Furthermore it would be perfectly OK if Kroger REQUIRED shoppers to wear masks even if the state didn't. The folks at the protest are acting stoopidas you put it. But they wouldn't be there to begin with if they had been given a set of guidelines then otherwise left to their own devices., "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Upworthy - Grim Reaper on Florida Beaches Guy dressed as Grim Reaper is traveling to Florida beaches to educate the public on social distancing[/url] 2 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Guard Dog said: If you didn't keep your distance from that wanker, wear a mask, etc, or just stay home then you DID ask for it! I just assume everyone has it but me. But when a cop pulls someone over for driving while being non-essential, or arrests someone for fishing by themselves at a lake on private property as happened in Minnesota and Wisconsin over the last month this big brother bulls--t has gone too far and we should stand up and tell the government to go f--k itself. Perhaps, I can still see cases where some people get sick out of no negligence of their own. They've advised people to wear masks (eventually)here and I still see maybe 10% wearing it when they go into stores and what not and so I'm skeptical of people doing the sensible thing just because it is so (think about how many people had to advised to wash their hands ) In any case, saying the free market will fix this is an incredibly boneheaded thing to say. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Gromnir has no defense from people in supermarkets ignoring social distancing. again, a bunch o' folks may be maintaining social distancing and all it takes is one idjit to infect all the people being reasonable. with asymptomatic people spreading, we may never know who were the person who infected us. handful o' obtuse libertarians is actual a common problem we face when shopping. am personal maintaining social distance when a jackarse comes up from behind, brushing past us to get at yogurts or a box o' facial tissue, coughing w/o wearing a mask. wtf? is a story that chris cuomo might o' been out o' his home during his self-imposed quarantine, and you know he ain't alone. quarantine means different things to different people, or so it seems. is stories, more than one, o' infected people going to grocery stores and gas stations 'cause, y'know, they have to get gas and food. infected person touches a gas pump handle and six hour later Gromnir might get the virus 'cause we used same gas pump? wtf? seen those images from how a single infected person in a restaurant in china infected nine people 'cause o' air conditioning? wtf? 24 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: The folks at the protest are acting stoopidas you put it. But they wouldn't be there to begin with if they had been given a set of guidelines then otherwise left to their own devices., sorry, but this is just so wrong. the guidelines has been communicated and these folks is doing anyways. who doesn't know guidelines and reasons for guidelines at this point? heck, guidelines don't matter if the libertarians clowns genuine believe the current situation is a panic-driven hoax and that covid-19 is no worse than the flu. so wrong. HA! Good Fun! Edited April 23, 2020 by Gromnir 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) I have a friend who works at an OfficeDepot, says he's had to 'yell at' customers (whatever that actually means since obviously literally yelling at customers would never happen in retail) many times over the last month to respect people's personal space, including his own, and not sit on workspaces, etc. Has anyone ever seen one of those "list of insane laws that are never enforced that prohibit something suspiciously very specific"? That's because somewhere, sometime, people were dumb enough to do those suspiciously specific things, and the state didn't want any part of having to protect such idiots for such brazenly stupid behavior. I hate seeing personal liberties infringed upon, too, but there are way too many irresponsible, uncaring, unsympathetic morons that will unfortunately do brazenly stupid things that endanger the rest of us if there are no consequences. They still are even now, but there are less of them, and a few of them have had to face consequences for it. In a situation like this where such restrictions obviously chafe on *everybody*, I feel pretty comfortable saying that those restrictions will not last forever, but if that's not the case and a few years down the line this crap is still going on, you can say "I told you so" to all of us, Guard Dog. (e): For goodness' sake, I even have that friend that works at a local hospital, and even she has said that it has been nearly impossible to get her coworkers to not needlessly touch other or get up in each other's personal space. These are health professionals that work in the field, have seen footage of hospitals in other areas and seen how bad it is, who should absolutely know better, and many of them are *still* being idiots and not treating it seriously. They should be thankful that their governor pre-emptively called for a stay-at-home order before it started getting really bad, because it likely saved at least a couple of their hides (plus an insane amount of work even if not), but that's not how many of them see it. They just see it as people "overreacting" and them being infringed upon. Edited April 23, 2020 by Bartimaeus 3 Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gromnir said: Gromnir has no defense from people in supermarkets ignoring social distancing. again, a bunch o' folks may be maintaining social distancing and all it takes is one idjit to infect all the people being reasonable. with asymptomatic people spreading, we may never know who were the person who infected us. handful o' obtuse libertarians is actual a common problem we face when shopping. am personal maintaining social distance when a jackarse comes up from behind, brushing past us to get at yogurts or a box o' facial tissue, coughing w/o wearing a mask. wtf? is a story that chris cuomo might o' been out o' his home during his self-imposed quarantine, and you know he ain't alone. quarantine means different things to different people, or so it seems. is stories, more than one, o' infected people going to grocery stores and gas stations 'cause, y'know, they have to get gas and food. infected person touches a gas pump handle and six hour later Gromnir might get the virus 'cause we used same gas pump? wtf? seen those images from how a single infected person in a restaurant in china infected nine people 'cause o' air conditioning? wtf? sorry, but this is just so wrong. the guidelines has been communicated and these folks is doing anyways. who doesn't know guidelines and reasons for guidelines at this point? heck, guidelines don't matter if the libertarians clowns genuine believe the current situation is a panic-driven hoax and that covid-19 is no worse than the flu. so wrong. HA! Good Fun! Well, with any luck there will be 2% fewer of them around after this. Darwin wins in the end. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Well, looks like virus is over in my country, see you outside suckers! I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chilloutman said: Well, looks like virus is over in my country, see you outside suckers! So then the virus will be back then.... 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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