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Baldur's Gate 3 - the 2nd thread


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56 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

All Fallout games suck.  There I said it.

You must be high. Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are amazing with all the options you can choose, and all the crazy **** you can encounter in the wastes of California and Nevada.

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26 minutes ago, Haljamar said:

You must be high. Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are amazing with all the options you can choose,

If I recognize the avatar @ComradeMaster seems to hate every good RPG. 😆 What they are going in Obsidian forum, I dunno.

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1 hour ago, Haljamar said:

You must be high. Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are amazing with all the options you can choose, and all the crazy **** you can encounter in the wastes of California and Nevada.

Well OK I loved New Vegas back in the day but literally nothing compels me to play it in *current era*.

So much has happened since then!

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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3 hours ago, KaineParker said:

The Forgotten Realms should be torched tbh. Ravenloft, Starjammer, or Darksun would make objectively better settings.

I heard little bit about Ravenloft and Darksun. I would prefer that change too tho. Nothing more generic like Forgotten Realms

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Apparently the Spelljammer game back then had tried to be interesting. The Darksun game existed and the Al Qadeem game was there too?

Unobtrusively informing you about my new ebook (which you should feel free to read and shower with praise).

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9 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

Well OK I loved New Vegas back in the day but literally nothing compels me to play it in *current era*.

So much has happened since then!

Such as? Honest question. What has happened is that we didn’t get another RPG, since then, beside crowdfunded projects and recently Outer Words, which was uninspiringly fine. . 

Bethesda went on to undermine whatever good was in their games with F4&76 (not that I ever cared for their games). I don’t know what Bioware has been doing. There was Witcher3 which was great but barely an RPG - what’s more RPG mechanics were what was dragging the game down. 

Without doubt, Divinities were the most exciting and innovative thing to happen to RPG, succesfully making a Coop oriented RPG.

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10 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

Nothing more generic like Forgotten Realms

Aren't they all? I mean, they're all derivatives of Tolkien and/or Gothic stuff. PoE adds a twist that is essentially taken from Hinduism / Buddhism but presented in mostly technical terms, i.e. there's a reincarnation process going on and it's powered by Adra.

I agree that there are degrees within this generic fiction, but none of it's particularly original. This is not a criticism as such: there are some superb cRPGs that I thoroughly enjoyed playing.

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9 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Aren't they all? I mean, they're all derivatives of Tolkien and/or Gothic stuff. PoE adds a twist that is essentially taken from Hinduism / Buddhism but presented in mostly technical terms, i.e. there's a reincarnation process going on and it's powered by Adra.

I agree that there are degrees within this generic fiction, but none of it's particularly original. This is not a criticism as such: there are some superb cRPGs that I thoroughly enjoyed playing.

I do think there's more going on with the Eora setting to separate it from the Tolkien tradition, between what you already mention as well as the more Renaissance-based setting and so on. The narrative is also distinctly different from his work. But back to DnD, there's plenty of settings in it that are pretty different to the Tolkien tradition, be they the more Lovecraftian Ravenloft, the post-apocalyptic Dark Sun, the stranger and more surreal/far-out Planescape, or the more space opera-like Spalljammer to give some examples.

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Whilst generic pseudo-Medieval European world are as clichéd as they come, I suspect they're still the most popular settings out there. And so long as that's the case, most CRPGs will pick a generic pseudo-Medieval European world as their setting.

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1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

Aren't they all? I mean, they're all derivatives of Tolkien and/or Gothic stuff. PoE adds a twist that is essentially taken from Hinduism / Buddhism but presented in mostly technical terms, i.e. there's a reincarnation process going on and it's powered by Adra.

I agree that there are degrees within this generic fiction, but none of it's particularly original. This is not a criticism as such: there are some superb cRPGs that I thoroughly enjoyed playing.

well Gothic ones are not that much around, at least I can't remember any, post-apo wasteland with magic might be more common these days i guess, still not many pop in my mind and I agree about PoE. Was not huge fan of setting either. But I also dont like guns in my fantasy so its hard to please me

Edited by Chilloutman

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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1 hour ago, algroth said:

I do think there's more going on with the Eora setting to separate it from the Tolkien tradition, between what you already mention as well as the more Renaissance-based setting and so on. The narrative is also distinctly different from his work.

Agreed, the Renaissance technology is a fair point and one that I forgot.

However, while the narrative is distinctly different, it's still a Tolkien derivative in the sense that it's populated by humans, elves, dwarves, which is pure Tolkien. There are other peoples as well (halflings have been swapped to orlans, whose societal status is different), but the roots are the same. And the obligatory dragons are there, too.

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I grew up with Baldur's Gate and the Infinity Engine games. And I love them so much.
I have never played a game from Larian, not even heard of them before.

Now, after watching the gameplay video from Larian of Baldur's Gate 3 I can't help but feel...
I feel excited, actually. More than anything I am so looking forward to the opportunity to go back to the Forgotten Realms, and have another adventure at the Sword Coast and in Baldur's Gate.

I feel that I am supposed to hate Baldur's Gate 3 and Larian. But I can't based on that gameplay demo alone. It's far too early to tell for me.

There are some things I am sceptical about, yes.

1.) I have never played an RPG with TB. But for that very reason I cannot condemn that. I do not know what it will feel like. I only know turn based from the Heroes of Might and Magic games which is an entirely different genre altogether. So it's something new for me. And I will stay open minded about it and try it out in BG3.

2.) The dialogue system. That is my biggest concern at the moment. That is so unusual for me. The dialogue is held in 1st person, indirect speech, past tense. I Imagine I might eventually adapt and get used to it. But I fear that this may be a huge immersion breaker for me. Also I do not like silent protagonists (although I understand that voicing all possible combinations of lines for the protagonist is too expensive).

I am not fond of the "3" in the title either. But I put much less importance on it. No matter how you call this game, it will let me revisit Baldur's Gate! And so far I have no reason to believe that Baldur's Gate 3 will spoil my fond memories of BG1 and 2 in any way or take them away from me.

I'm already looking forward to play as Astarion, the vampire spawn. 😄

Edited by Fluffle
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1 hour ago, Fluffle said:

2.) The dialogue system. That is my biggest concern at the moment. That is so unusual for me. The dialogue is held in 1st person, indirect speech, past tense. I Imagine I might eventually adapt and get used to it. But I fear that this may be a huge immersion breaker for me.

I never got used to in D:OS2, and then I just quit playing. But that was just one of the reasons I quit.

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18 hours ago, KaineParker said:

The Forgotten Realms should be torched tbh. Ravenloft, Starjammer, or Darksun would make objectively better settings.

You seem to have made the mistake of spelling "Planescape" as "Starjammer, or Darksun". 😛

Seriously, only masochists play Dark Sun.

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No Greyhawk? why?????! :(

edit: Oh and i personally liked  Darklandss setting the most.

Edited by Majek

1.13 killed off Ja2.

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5 hours ago, Fluffle said:

2.) The dialogue system. That is my biggest concern at the moment. That is so unusual for me. The dialogue is held in 1st person, indirect speech, past tense. I Imagine I might eventually adapt and get used to it. But I fear that this may be a huge immersion breaker for me. Also I do not like silent protagonists (although I understand that voicing all possible combinations of lines for the protagonist is too expensive).

They did that in their previous title, Divinity: Original Sin2, and I thought it worked alright. I would fill the blanks of how my character would say it (at least initially), a bit like I fill silent protagonist with my voice. Wasn't I didn't like in D:OS2 is overall how little narrative direction there was, I am worried BG3 will suffer the same fate. What I have seen the most jarring, that sometimes the character would speak pre-recorded lines - whenever it's demo magic, or feature of the game I don't know. If it is a thing, it's an odd design - supervague dialogue most of the time, and then pre-written, recorded lines everyonce in the while.  

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5 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Agreed, the Renaissance technology is a fair point and one that I forgot.

However, while the narrative is distinctly different, it's still a Tolkien derivative in the sense that it's populated by humans, elves, dwarves, which is pure Tolkien. There are other peoples as well (halflings have been swapped to orlans, whose societal status is different), but the roots are the same. And the obligatory dragons are there, too.

Where do you draw the line between "taking influence from" or "bearing similarities to" and "being derivative of", though? Yes, I do think the Eoran setting is partly designed to bring memories of Faerun, but it's doing a lot that is different and unique and not really moved by (and often deliberately subversive of) the high fantasy standard set by Tolkien. If I'm not mistaken, Josh deliberately avoids Tolkien as a source as well, having expressed exhaustion at his pervasiveness in high fantasy and so on.

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3 hours ago, Amentep said:

You seem to have made the mistake of spelling "Planescape" as "Starjammer, or Darksun". 😛

Seriously, only masochists play Dark Sun.

CaninePointedAngelwingmussel-size_restri

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1 minute ago, ShadySands said:

Feargus passed on it

But even still there are some of us who still hold out hope

Wait, this was a thing? Was Black Isle/Obsidian ever attached to anything Trek-related?

I thought I was making a joke.

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Interplay had some Trek titles that he may have worked on but I was referring the time when Feargus as CEO of Obsidian passed on Star Trek .

Quote

"We've talked to the Bethesda guys more than once about doing games," Urquhart said. "They called me once about Star Trek, and I was probably being a little bit too much, too arrogant of a developer... This would've been like 2007—way before the movies—and it was like, Star Trek wasn't in a good place. I don't know what I said, but I now know it probably sounded arrogant."

https://kotaku.com/the-knights-of-new-vegas-5968952

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6 hours ago, Fluffle said:

I grew up with Baldur's Gate and the Infinity Engine games. And I love them so much.
I have never played a game from Larian, not even heard of them before.

Now, after watching the gameplay video from Larian of Baldur's Gate 3 I can't help but feel...
I feel excited, actually. More than anything I am so looking forward to the opportunity to go back to the Forgotten Realms, and have another adventure at the Sword Coast and in Baldur's Gate.

I feel that I am supposed to hate Baldur's Gate 3 and Larian. But I can't based on that gameplay demo alone. It's far too early to tell for me.

There are some things I am sceptical about, yes.

1.) I have never played an RPG with TB. But for that very reason I cannot condemn that. I do not know what it will feel like. I only know turn based from the Heroes of Might and Magic games which is an entirely different genre altogether. So it's something new for me. And I will stay open minded about it and try it out in BG3.

2.) The dialogue system. That is my biggest concern at the moment. That is so unusual for me. The dialogue is held in 1st person, indirect speech, past tense. I Imagine I might eventually adapt and get used to it. But I fear that this may be a huge immersion breaker for me. Also I do not like silent protagonists (although I understand that voicing all possible combinations of lines for the protagonist is too expensive).

I am not fond of the "3" in the title either. But I put much less importance on it. No matter how you call this game, it will let me revisit Baldur's Gate! And so far I have no reason to believe that Baldur's Gate 3 will spoil my fond memories of BG1 and 2 in any way or take them away from me.

I'm already looking forward to play as Astarion, the vampire spawn. 😄

I also have been so looking forward to a new adventure in the Realms. But for me, what I've seen so far of BG3 is not good enough for me to give it a try. But I remain hopeful that as more information becomes available my impression will change enough for me to be willing to try it.

However, there is one thing that I want to note about the TB combat system in BG3. It is not a traditional TB system, with individual initiative rolls and each character, party members and enemies alike, taking their turns in strict sequence. Rather, here it is party initiative, with just a single roll for the party and for the enemy side. Then, during the party's turn, the player can move and take actions for all their party members in any order they want including taking a partial action for one character, moving on to another character, then returning to complete the action for the previous character. So effectively it is simultaneous TB combat.

In both the Larian and Beamdog forums (can't recall if I did it here), in response to questions about how a TB system might be changed to be more palatable to me, I offered exactly this idea as a way to make TB combat "better" for me. So I will say that this change is significant to me, and I hope Larian won't end up changing it back due to whining from TB/PnP D&D purists.

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