Why has PoE2 been sold so badly?

[local.man]

Hello

I would say that the game looks a bit dry and cumbersome overall, like Part 1.
The whole scene was always not so engaging and inviting.

I think more fantasy, like it e.g. Pathfinder Kingmaker brings, pulls more. Softer animations and a fight that feels more like an MMORPG from the old days also come across a little better if you stay in real time, which I welcome when it is well implemented. Lap mode can also be offered.

Then don't become so political, just dig out the old school of fantasy.

One should also consider localization. There is a lot of text to read and if the game is heavy, the texts in the corresponding language will do better. You just get in better and go better.

The pure quality of PoE and PoE2 were really very strong and absolutely recommended role-playing games.
It's all the details, setting (pirates like that, managing ships), combat, etc.

I e.g. has never been a big fan of managing a castle or anything, at least not when I want to play an RPG. I also showed it in Pathfinder Kingmaker, completely and automatically activated with never failing.
I rather seek adventure in RPGs, strange lonely zones, deep crypts full of undead Lich Lords, a nice character development through tasks and specializations, decisions and ways.
Back then, for example, very good Might and Magic Part 7.
Decision according to good or bad, the UI has been changed to different classes in the factions with specialization to the final class, a nice fantasy world. The castle dabs there too, but it was rather a minor matter as a hanger for the story.

Nor am I a fan of it when the hero groups are all superheroes and you start too big. I always liked to be the little gnome somewhere and then go on a big adventure and master many dangers.

I love e.g. Movies like Battle of the Titans (the classic from the 80s). A wonderful atmosphere, little hero, big cinema behind with Zeus and who scurries through fantastic adventures, has to cut off the head of a Medusa and break into vast and unreal areas. A little fairy tale, a little adventure and a lot of excitement. You went with it, you were in it and wanted it to experience much more ..

That's how the RPGs should be again. And then a good control and appropriate gameplay, nice classes, development and localized in the mother tongue, bug-free and what goes with it in a really inviting atmosphere.

I actually like PoE 1 + 2, but it was always a little boring and a lot to read. I also somehow lacked a contrast in the game. So that you had to choose something, apart from a few quests, but a choice of good and evil including classes and then only accessible zones etc. So something that promises more belonging and brings spice, but not in superhero scenarios drifts.

I would very much welcome a PoE 3, but I also see that with the same paint and process, you will not tear much more than before.

PoE always gave the impression that it was a great game, but something is missing here and there .. It never really pulled.
I also feel e.g. addressed in a Pathfinder Kingmaker more than PoE, but as I said, I don't like the simulation of my own fortress either.

I hope you find a good way and can continue. Because the game generally has a lot of potential and, as I said, was always of absolutely high quality. If you can flip a few switches and hit the hearts of gamers more, PoE is able to do a lot.

Maybe a complete change to a completely different new game will help, which you can then do differently.

Good luck to you.

Ps. My english is so-so .. i wrote it with google translator. Hope it is understandable

[Madscientist]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/112610-armchair-theories-on-why-poe2-didnt-sell-super-well/

Here you get 13 pages of speculation what other people think about it.

[daven]

So to summarise, you think that it should be exactly the same as every other fantasy game?

[KaInEvIL]

It's not cartoony enough and new gen suffers from extreme case of ADD and short attention span so they don't like reading nor anything that resembles a challenge in the slightiest way. THE END.

Edited March 7, 2020 by KaInEvIL

[Boeroer]

The end of what? Your posting career? Come on, it barely started!

Why did people like PoE then - which is far more dark and gritty and has a lot more text to read - and doesn't even have a lot of VO?

 

 

 

[Gfted1]

In Kickstarters, when a tier offers multiple copies, are each of those copies considered an individual unit sale?

[Boeroer]

No idea, shouldn't matter for Deadfire though.

[Gfted1]

I know, I was just wondering if that might have inflated the "# of copies sold" for PoE?

[Boeroer]

Ah. I don't think that. PoE sold significantly more copies (like three times as many? Correct me if I'm wrong) and I guess that the number of "multiple copies" pledges wasn't that significant.

And even so: if you took one of those tiers you would have pledged more money than for a single copy, wouldn't you? So I believe that the sales numbers cannot be inflated that way.

[Achilles]

Have to imagine that keys redeemed is the metric there.

[algroth]

nvm

Edited March 11, 2020 by algroth

[claudius]

I wonder if some enthusiasts bought PoE1 being excited about it but then never got enough free time to play it and so when PoE2 came out why would they buy it before first finishing PoE1?  Unless a huge sale.  So enthusiasts bought 1 and then realized they have no free time.

[daven]

1 hour ago, claudius said:

I wonder if some enthusiasts bought PoE1 being excited about it but then never got enough free time to play it and so when PoE2 came out why would they buy it before first finishing PoE1?  Unless a huge sale.  So enthusiasts bought 1 and then realized they have no free time.

I think there is something in that. Not the main reason but probably had some contribution. It took me years to get through the first game. Back when I played bg1 and 2 I had time to play games 4 or 5 hours a day.. now I'm lucky to get 45 mins in am evening. 

[xzar_monty]

I also agree that @claudius (from ancient Rome?) makes a valid point. It appears overwhelmingly likely that the main audience for PoE was always that group of players who sort of grew up on Baldur's Gate (or in many cases -- like mine -- even older games than that, titles such as Ultima, Bard's Tale, Phantasie and so on). Thus, it does appear reasonable to suppose that while the enthusiasm was there, it ultimately turned out that although they bought PoE, out of enthusiasm and nostalgia, they found that they had no time to play it and therefore they didn't hang around for Deadfire. I hadn't thought of this before, but it's a very good point.

[Morrydwen]

I have honestly no clue why this game sold so badly. I absolutely loved BG 2 (which I prefer over BG 1 and both classic Fallouts). It was only in 2018 that I managed to get  a time slot to play POE 1.

Also for TC: Might and Magic 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Might and Magic 7

[Wormerine]

What I am the most curious about now, is how Pathfinder:WotR will do. Crowdfunding wise it did far better then P:K, with over 2x money, and almost 2x backers. But how well will it sell after release? Did most players interested in it, pitch into crowdfunding, and will not be there to buy it once the game is complete?

In both PoE and Pathf I moved from post release purchase in initial game, to a backer for the sequel. My money won't be there for them after they burn through the budget, just as it was the case with Deadfire.

[kanisatha]

20 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

What I am the most curious about now, is how Pathfinder:WotR will do. Crowdfunding wise it did far better then P:K, with over 2x money, and almost 2x backers. But how well will it sell after release? Did most players interested in it, pitch into crowdfunding, and will not be there to buy it once the game is complete?

In both PoE and Pathf I moved from post release purchase in initial game, to a backer for the sequel. My money won't be there for them after they burn through the budget, just as it was the case with Deadfire.

From a profitability pov you have to factor in that Owlcat is operating in Russia and Obsidian in California.

[Taevyr]

8 hours ago, Wormerine said:

What I am the most curious about now, is how Pathfinder:WotR will do. Crowdfunding wise it did far better then P:K, with over 2x money, and almost 2x backers. But how well will it sell after release? Did most players interested in it, pitch into crowdfunding, and will not be there to buy it once the game is complete?

In both PoE and Pathf I moved from post release purchase in initial game, to a backer for the sequel. My money won't be there for them after they burn through the budget, just as it was the case with Deadfire.

For a comparison with Pathfinder, you need to take into account that Deadfire switched to Fig instead of Kickstarter which, in my opinion, severely hurt the visibility of both Deadfire in general and the crowdfunding campaign.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Taevyr

[Boeroer]

I agree.

[xzar_monty]

Do we know what was the reasoning behind that switch?

[daven]

I'd guess Kickstarter took a bigger cut of the money raised.

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Do we know what was the reasoning behind that switch?

Feargus (CEO Obsidian) is one of the board members of fig: https://www.fig.co/about#advisors

I guess they just wanted to establish an alternative crowdfunding platform for indie games which isn't that expensive and better taylored to games. Most other games funded there are rather small. I guess they thought that Deadfire would be a success anyway (because sequel of successful PoE and D:OS2 sold like hot cakes) and that they could use this to also lift up fig.co. 

Maybe it would have been supersmart to lauch two crowdfunding campaigns: the main one at fig and another one at Kickstarter (maybe for a certain "encapsulated" part of the game - like a DLC that comes right with the release - if the rules don't forbid that). That way you would have the exposure of Kickstarter and the better terms and the investment capabilites of fig. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Boeroer
my galaxy brain

[daven]

Feargus is the weak link at Obsidian. 

[Gfted1]

Didnt "nobody finished it" already get shouted down with "but it got good user ratings"?

[Boeroer]

No. Because nobody shouted.

Also the argument was that other successful games and their sequels have similarly poor achievement ratings, not the ratings. The ratings were an argument against the "majority of players hated bugs/story/their mom...".

Edited March 16, 2020 by Boeroer