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Amentep

Politics, local-national-global-galactic

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1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

Have you looked at the growing disparity of wealth in the US? There is no reason to be happy that the middle class is stagnant while the rich get richer. Is that selfish?

what does it have to do with unemployment? If you want to see only the bad go do it, its your life


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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as stated by hurl and others, focus on unemployment is myopic as is a single factor, which is itself misleading. got people employed in jobs where they cannot afford to live is a problem, no? the top 1% has done well in recent years, but is not the case for everybody else. is worse for manufacturing jobs and farmers who make up a disproportionate % o' trump's base, which make the "booming economy" claims downright puzzling as a selling point from the current admin. few people is doing worse in this economy than those who otherwise identify as trump base. 

furthermore...

Unemployment Is Low, but That’s Only Part of the Story

Sure, Unemployment Went Down - Because More People Left The Workforce

consider unemployment rate w/o looking at the numbers o' folks who for whatever reason has given up on looking for a job is resulting in misleading stats. US has a much higher rate o' functional unemployment than recent administrations suggest... is not just a trump thing. US is behind most eu nations insofar as actual total employment is concerned. 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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ok guys, I give up, he is Satan, can we please move on?

Edited by Chilloutman

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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fredgraph.png?width=880&height=440&id=CI

am knowing folks don't like to read more than headlines which reinforce their already held beliefs, so perhaps a picture instead... and apologies for oversize. 

keep in mind the big participation increase during the 70s-80s were resulting from women joining the workforce en masse. 

the recent recession resulted in a major drop off o' participation in workforce. current administration claims o' improvements in employment is functional almost rounding error worthy given how small they has been when looked at through prism o' comparative participation.

and yeah, obama also used the fuzzy numbers to make his employment rates look better.  

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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23 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

ok guys, I give up, he is Satan, can we please move on?

Its the nature of the beast. Once butthurt, twice bitter. Now somehow good employment rates = "nuh uh, everyones given up and are living on air". But of course, a crappy unemployment number would be shouted from the rooftop. "The rich get richer...whatabout me...its not fair!" All go-to responses when "their side" isnt winning.:shrugz:

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Just print more money and hand it out so everyone becomes rich.


The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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14 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Just print more money and hand it out so everyone becomes rich.

that was yang's plan.

aside, and not directed at hoon, we do feel a bit prophetic

"am knowing folks don't like to read more than headlines which reinforce their already held beliefs,"

and right on cue we had a response which proves point. is like magic.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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See! More of you should have supported Yang, Then maybe the BhB (Butthurt Brigade) wouldnt have to come up with theories about how hundreds of thousands of people got fired ~2008 and just said "screw it, aint working no more". Can someone please tell me how to not work for 12 years and not be homeless? Pretty please. I really need this guys. :lol:

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*chuckle*

is not complicated how 2.5-3 people outta 100 working age adults could leave the workplace and not return. couple decides bob should stay home and be a full-time house dad, raising the kids n' such. bethany moves into her folk's basement and becomes a full-time influencer and picks up the occasional dj job. phil gets fired and decides to just retire early-- can make it work with a few more tuna fish sandwiches instead o' trips to europe. etc. 

prophecy fulfilled. instead o' considering numbers or reading articles, folks who don't want to confront reality instead play blame game. get butthurt and suggest if roles were reversed, folks on other side would be arguing just same... which doesn't affect numbers whatsoever and ignores fact Gromnir were indeed on other side and were complaining when obama were doing same funny numbers silliness with the economy.

am always enjoying a real-life and real-time example which proves a recent made point.

HA! Good Fun!

ps speaking o' obama, an additional (and predictable)  contribution to lost participation were obamacare and requirement o' full-time employees to be getting medical coverage from their employer. more than a few business shifted to schemes which maximized part-time and contract work so as to avoid obamacare responsibilities. in addition to businesses cutting fat, which is typical following any recession, obamacare had more than a few businesses changing the nature o' employment to avoid insurance coverage costs.

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

ok guys, I give up, he is Satan, can we please move on?

This seems like a strange reaction. I was just explaining why I am ready for another person to be in office. Never called him Satan or anything like that. He got 4 years and that seems like enough.

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1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Its the nature of the beast. Once butthurt, twice bitter. Now somehow good employment rates = "nuh uh, everyones given up and are living on air". But of course, a crappy unemployment number would be shouted from the rooftop. "The rich get richer...whatabout me...its not fair!" All go-to responses when "their side" isnt winning.:shrugz:

Do you have proof it was different before, though ?  Seems sort of common that the rate isn't the be all and end all, nothing is ever that simple (there's a good Djikstra quote on that 😛 )

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Do you have proof it was different before, though ? 

That what was different before? Honest question.

People? No, they never change. Once "hurt" they will almost always cut off their noses to spite their faces, if they think they are "striking back". And its very very easy to lead them to that. See above.

Or do you mean unemployment rate by year? 

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40 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Just print more money and hand it out so everyone becomes rich.

Alter that slightly and you get the perfect description of Obama's 'quantitative easing' policy: "Just print more money and hand it out to the rich".

On the jobless rates etc, dropping that rate is what gets targeted even if it doesn't get people back into actual jobs but just removes them from the statistics instead. It's no accident how changes to how the rate is calculated drop the jobless rate pretty much every single time- perhaps the favourite method is to say that if you haven't found a job after [time period] then you clearly aren't really looking so you aren't part of the official unemployment rate any more. If you're in a country with multiple types of welfare maybe you get shifted to something that doesn't get officially counted as unemployed.

The other trick used to make an economy look like it's doing better at the low end than it really is is to cite 'job creation' stats. Most people will not spend any time thinking about them and just decide that since the number is positive things must be great- except you need a decent sized positive number just to be standing still.

 

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17 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

That what was different before? Honest question.

People? No, they never change. Once "hurt" they will almost always cut off their noses to spite their faces, if they think they are "striking back". And its very very easy to lead them to that. See above.

Or do you mean unemployment rate by year? 

Well, you were saying that people's views of the unemployment rate's value have changed now, so would stand to reason you have some evidence of the people here having the opposite view that they do now.   I know here in Canada, they game the rate a lot and it's also of dubious merit in that the quality of the job isn't factored in in any way.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Well, you were saying that people's views of the unemployment rate's value have changed now, so would stand to reason you have some evidence of the people here having the opposite view that they do now.


Oh, thats easy, TRUMP! The camps are so polarized at this point that he cant even say "its dark outside when your location on Earth rotates away from the sun" without an entire clown alley coming up with something to spin it as opposite. And that goes both ways, so Im not picking on those prone to hysterics about Trump.

I personally love it when someone breaks out the ole "the lack of actual quantifiable numbers actually means <whatever smoke Im trying to blow>". Its the butterfly effect...like if one person gets sexually assaulted, 142% of other people were too but just arent talking about it. Weirdness.

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Just now, Gfted1 said:

I personally love it when someone breaks out the ole "the lack of actual quantifiable numbers actually means <whatever smoke Im trying to blow>". Its the butterfly effect...like if one person gets sexually assaulted, 142% of other people were too but just arent talking about it. Weirdness.

Bit different than the number needing context of other numbers, but ok.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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38 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Bit different than the number needing context of other numbers, but ok.

it's just another flavor o' "fake news" nonsense. is no need to provide you with a response 'cause they are all liars and they twist the facts however it suits them. if the real issue is they and them, then substance o' an argument becomes incidental and apparently fodder for comical hyperbole.

HA! Good Fun!

ps why would somebody keep bringing up obama to somehow counter our observation 'bout actual employment rates, particular when we already stated obama were using same fuzzy math to inflate numbers? jobs which were lost during the recession, particular jobs involving no specialized skills and/or less education never came back. look at dates and numbers o' graph... though apparent even pictures isn't simple enough to understand for the they and them folks. 

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Just print more money and hand it out so everyone becomes rich.

Been doing that for a while now. It's called quantative easing. 

Edit: Doh! Zorp beat me to it!

Edited by Guard Dog

"Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!"

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2 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

This seems like a strange reaction. I was just explaining why I am ready for another person to be in office. Never called him Satan or anything like that. He got 4 years and that seems like enough.

I don't even care anymore who is in office. I'm 3/4 of the way to quitting my job, cancelling my cell phone and electricity and going full on feral


"Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!"

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2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I don't even care anymore who is in office. I'm 3/4 of the way to quitting my job, cancelling my cell phone and electricity and going full on feral

you and bear claw meeting once every couple o' years? then again, perhaps you are bear claw in this story?

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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53 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

you and bear claw meeting once every couple o' years? then again, perhaps you are bear claw in this story?

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

LOL I’d probably be Hatchet Jack! I know the lives of Mountain Men were not enviable by today’s standards but I would have LOVED to have tried it. My dad used to say he was born 100 years too late (he said that in the 80’s) because he was fascinated by the post civil war west. I think the pre civil war west would have been better. 
 

That is one of my favorite movies by the way. Redford’s Johnson was a lot more sympathetic than his real life inspiration. Although they were likely both largely fictional.


"Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!"

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4 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

ok guys, I give up, he is Satan, can we please move on?

I'd consider him a "false hero/champion" but not "Satan".  He's doing a great stirring the pot in D.C., raising consciousness and awareness and airing out the sickness and corruption in D.C. (without actually doing anything about it, he's all talk after all!)

Unfortunately though, he's also stirring up the far right and they see him as their last and best chance at stifling social and economic progress so I'm sure there's gonna be a mess to clean up once we get the ball rolling,

And I love the Gen-X style comments, move to Alaska with a tent and a fishing pole and Coleman stove and live ever after.  Gen Xers are masters at spotting problems but seem to have serious problems offering solutions.  I guess that's where Gen-Y comes in, let us clean the mess up with blood and honor naturally.


'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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