Ye Great but Totally Subjective 'PoE' Comparison Table

[Boeroer]

Yeah that post didn't make a whole lot of sense. Same number of dragons (if you count the Guardian of Ukaizo - which used to be a living dragon before it became a vessel).

Some might even consider the Porokoa a kind of dragon. I mean it's a giant reptile - and if you call a Komodo Dragon a dragon...  

[Haljamar]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Yeah that post didn't make a whole lot of sense. Same number of dragons (if you count the Guardian of Ukaizo - which used to be a living dragon before it became a vessel).

Some might even consider the Porokoa a kind of dragon. I mean it's a giant reptile - and if you call a Komodo Dragon a dragon...  

PoE2 only had 3 true dragons. I'm saying they should have put in more dragon encounters whether it be a lightning dragon that you can only reach by sailing into a hurricane causing you to wind up on his floating island teeming with storm blights, a 20th level wizard lightning dragon to get around lightning resistant characters, and dragon cultists who are only level 12 to act as damage sponges for the living storm they worship. They could have also had a corrosion breathing three headed dragon based on Azi Dahaka unleashing earthquake like abilities, and having rogue abilities once they reach it's underground lair who wishes to wipe out the Royal Deadfire Company who built their fort above his lair.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Haljamar

[Boeroer]

Depends on the definition of "true" dragon. But there is no general one because they are fictitious. Thus the lore of the game world defines what a dragon is. 

For example the Guardian of Ukaizo is actually three dragons merged into one Draco-Animat or "Mecha-Dragon":

da game itself said:

Knowing they would need a guardian to protect it, the Engwithans entreated the

three dragon servants of Ngati with an offer - the Engwithans would grant the dragons eternal life at the cost of their eternal service. The dragons thus allowed the Engwithans to tether their souls to a single beast, the Guardian of Ukaizo, and rejoiced in their new, undying form.

 

Deadfire therefore has 5 dragon encounters:

 

1. Jadaferlas (Magma Dragon in Ashen Maw, base game)
2. Scyorielaphas (Sea Dragon in the Watershaper's Guild, base game)
3. Neriscyrlas as "Messenger" (Lich Dragon in Harbinger's Watch, Beast of Winter DLC)
4. Neriscyrlas (Lich Dragon on the Shattered Passage in the White Void, Beast of Winter DLC)
5. Guardian of Ukaizo (Animat Dragon, Ukaizo Harbor, base game)

PoE had 4 dragon encounters:

1. no-name (Sky Dragon in the Temple of Hylea, base game)
2. Sefyra (Adra Dragon on lvl 15 of the Endless Paths of Od Nua, base game)
3. no-name (Alpine Dragon, Longwatch Falls, White March I DLC)
4. Turisulfus & Gafonercos (Bog Dragons, Mowrghek Îen, White March II DLC).

If we want to include Cail the Silent (Red Drake in Searing Falls) because he is cool, guards Tidefall, may have been at the brink of adulthood and has a name and (short) dialogue then we would be at 5 dragon encounters.

So your initial statement 

Haljamar said:

Obsidian should have put more dragons in Deadfire. Poe 1 had dragons out the ass.

in comparison to Deafire is simply not correct. If you wanted to be nitpicky and count the individual dragons it's 4 (Deadfire) vs. 5 (PoE) which is not such a big difference that you could say that PoE had dragons "out the ass" while Deadfire had not enough.

Especially if you look at both base games where it's 3 (Deadfire) to 2 (PoE).

I guess you like the more "traditional" or conservative fantasy approach with dragons - like they are depicted in D&D lore?
Where the evil ones mostly have elemental properties and are colored - and then the good ones are gold and silver and bronze and such (obviously...).
I also guess that you would have liked to see more of those conservative takes on dragons in Deadfire?
Because PoE's dragons fit into that pattern better - while Deadfire deviates from it with an undead dragon and construct dragon instead of more elemental ones like a storm dragon (we already had a Sky Dragon who did shocking things - there are only so much elements you can draw inspirations from...). At least that would somewhat explain your initial statement.

For you those more conservative takes on dragons are what makes them "true" dragons?

Yet Deadfire's dragons are tailored exactly to the themes they are connected to: Neriscyrlas chose the lich form in order to cheat her end. She resists death and the final annihililation of her soul through the White Void - which is the domain of Rymrgand, the God of Endings. Actually Neriscyrlas looks like Vatnir in dragon form... The Guardian of Ukaizo is a product of animancy - and was made by the Engwithans who invented animancy and created the gods with its help. Betrayed by the woul-be gods like they betrayed the Huana (who themselves betrayed the Sea Draon). I think those themes are beautifuly connected with its dragons and lead to a less cliché-ridden depiction.

PS: Alpine Dragon already had rogue abilities (like Sneak Attack and Deathblows) so like with the Sky Dragon I think the devs won't want to repeat themselves too much. Hence the more "esotheric" approaches to dragons in PoE I would presume.
 



 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Boeroer
Typo: 6 instead of 5

[uuuhhii]

too few dragon are not a problem

too many dragon are

when the slayer competitor brag about killed 3 dragon it feels very weird

zombie dragon in bow are pretty clever choice of devs

[uuuhhii]

never understand why anyone would prefer main quest of poe over deadfire

dyrwood are pretty blend as setting

only the bleak atmosphere saved it from totally boring

awaken and watcher are very difficult to understand and pointless

lady webb and duke should have been merge into one character and their death carry no weight

the under line of saint's war are the only thing interesting about main story in poe

[wingedchocolatecake]

I mean, technically Gafonercos is in Deadfire, so Deadfire 6, Pillars 5.

[wingedchocolatecake]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:37 PM, uuuhhii said:

never understand why anyone would prefer main quest of poe over deadfire

dyrwood are pretty blend as setting

only the bleak atmosphere saved it from totally boring

awaken and watcher are very difficult to understand and pointless

lady webb and duke should have been merge into one character and their death carry no weight

the under line of saint's war are the only thing interesting about main story in poe

Well, that's entirely subjective. I don't think I'll ever get over my love of Tolkien-esque, fantasy worlds, so I didn't think the Dyrwood was bland at all.  

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'awaken and watcher are very difficult to understand and pointless.' Your character is a watcher, and I don't see how either PoEI or II could have existed of you weren't awakened and a watcher. 

Lady Webb's death did carry weight, though. So did Duc Aevar Wolf-Grin's. When Lady Webb dies, you see the real Thaos, the man you've been searching for all along. It fleshes them both out, and I was sad to see her dead. 

When the Duc dies, it literally starts fires and rampages throughout Defiance Bay, forcing you to flee the city. That's certainly weighty. 

[uuuhhii]

8 minutes ago, wingedchocolatecake said:

Well, that's entirely subjective. I don't think I'll ever get over my love of Tolkien-esque, fantasy worlds, so I didn't think the Dyrwood was bland at all.  

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'awaken and watcher are very difficult to understand and pointless.' Your character is a watcher, and I don't see how either PoEI or II could have existed of you weren't awakened and a watcher. 

Lady Webb's death did carry weight, though. So did Duc Aevar Wolf-Grin's. When Lady Webb dies, you see the real Thaos, the man you've been searching for all along. It fleshes them both out, and I was sad to see her dead. 

When the Duc dies, it literally starts fires and rampages throughout Defiance Bay, forcing you to flee the city. That's certainly weighty. 

become awaken and watcher after the biawac are suppose to be the motive for main character to follow the main story

but to the player it doesn't really means anything

even after meeting with maerwald the potential threat of slowly going insane are still too vague and lack urgency

suffer soul damage from biawac and find maerwald than the defiance bay animancers for help will be much better and easier to understand motive

deadfire get this part much better

the whole concept of watcher was never that interesting or important to begin with

it should never been part of the setting

[wingedchocolatecake]

On 1/26/2020 at 2:29 PM, uuuhhii said:

become awaken and watcher after the biawac are suppose to be the motive for main character to follow the main story

but to the player it doesn't really means anything

even after meeting with maerwald the potential threat of slowly going insane are still too vague and lack urgency

suffer soul damage from biawac and find maerwald than the defiance bay animancers for help will be much better and easier to understand motive

deadfire get this part much better

the whole concept of watcher was never that interesting or important to begin with

it should never been part of the setting

What other narrative device can you think of that would make your character want to trek all over the Dyrwood? 

[daven]

On 2/4/2020 at 11:13 AM, wingedchocolatecake said:

What other narrative device can you think of that would make your character want to trek all over the Dyrwood? 

The character could just be an adventurer.