Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I've accumulated 80,000+ bits throughout my playthrough and there's nothing to spend it on. No end game weapon of mass destruction, No golden hat of +10 to all personality attributes, No Purchasable Ship decor or Paint, No horse armor...

needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed that I wasted all that time compulsively selling and scrapping everything I find just in case. I could've just ignored collecting a majority of the loot in this game and would have been just as well off.

Maybe in the dlc there'll be something...

Link to post
Share on other sites

How much tinkering did you do?

Spoiler

I saw someone on a stream talking about how if they bought the nav key to Stellar Bay they would of missed content, as you can just go to Cascadia port but it is a much harder path then using the nav key purchase.  The person has over 50k bits, it left me wondering if he had the same idea to save bits to get end game items.  TOW has an interesting design particularly with the science weapons in that they will only become good weapons if you put bits into tinkering with them, plus building the character in a certain way to maximize.  Once you figure out it doesn't really do any good to horde your bits thing can become easier.

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

so now we compare these type of posts with the “costs too much” types lol

tinker much? supernova?

basic, common-sense self-imposed willpower?

just like all other rpgs and so-called rpgs

as gamers we adjust to a games mechanics accordingly to best suit our styles of play

with TOW, on my second run, i already know my self-imposed rules will be pages less than, oh, every other console game in existence

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's two pretty different issues for me here. As with others I find tinkering is usually extremely expensive and a money-sink that can very quickly deplete your 80.000 bits on simply maxing out a couple of weapons. Likewise I don't thing you ever get to the 300k+ territory you do in many other games of this ilk, where money does become completely irrelevant. At the same time, however, I agree that the array of items is largely disappointing, especially with regards to unique gear - science weapons aside, very few of the unique weapons and armour can't already be crafted with the right mods, and often are lacking the mod slots to improve beyond any normal weapon or armour of its type. The Euthanasia Kit is a fine example of this: I have no idea how this weapon separates itself at all from any other tactical shotgun in the game beyond the fact that it's a certain level and has no mod slots whatsoever. If it's meant to have a unique property, I'm not seeing it. Meanwhile the Ultimatum's uniqueness is also rendered meaningless when you're later able to buy what is essentially a better "pulse gun" at any vendor machine. Whilst I understand how making more wacky science weapons can be costly and require resources Obsidian didn't have, at the very least the passives on other weapons and gear could be more interesting or feel more useful - and to bring it back to the topic at hand, they could also be for sale, costly, and provide something else to spend our bits on.

  • Like 1

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg

Currently playing: Fallout 2

Link to post
Share on other sites

simply tinkering yours and your companions weapons and armor as you currently wear them alters this debate dramatically as it then becomes an i dont have enuf bits one

i experimented with the revolver and hammer tinckering at L10 with a 40 science and the uniques timckering costs were only very slightly higher turn the normal versions so im unsure of all the mechanics and how they change as one levels up

i would say the initial costs and when they are available is an issue, as well as, the uniques being underwhelming

but, what do you do? have scaled uniques?

the system obviously needs tinckering 😉 

 

Edited by thearmourofGod
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, thearmourofGod said:

simply tinkering yours and your companions weapons and armor as you currently wear them alters this debate dramatically as it then becomes an i dont have enuf bits one

 

For the record, in case my previous message may have been misinterpreted as a complaint on the game's economy, I have no issue with bits being scarce - if anything it makes perfect sense in a setting that is deliberately touching on ideas such as the hoarding of resources by the few and the scarcity the many suffer in turn, the overinflating of prices, and the likes. In games especially, a good economy is one which doesn't allow you to buy everything you could possibly want and still have a mountain of currency at your disposal. But it's also true that tinkering is the only real money-sink in the game and it's not as psychologically rewarding as finding an awesome item at a vendor's store and acquiring it with hard-earned cash (in-game of course).

  • Like 2

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg

Currently playing: Fallout 2

Link to post
Share on other sites

i am in complete agreement

its a huge rpg issue that i think this game does a better job at but can still, obviously, be improved upon

its why in all other games i am forced to impose severe restrictions on myself (console)

though, not really an “economy” based system some slight alterations could indeed help

for clarification, as like so many other games, i feel the loot and trade system in this game are subpar and, therefore, my second run will impose restrictions, such as, no unlocked container looting, no looting enemies i dont kill, etc..

 

Edited by thearmourofGod
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

i am in complete agreement

its a huge rpg issue that i think this game does a better job at but can still, obviously, be improved upon

its why in all other games i am forced to impose severe restrictions on myself (console)

though, not really an “economy” based system some slight alterations could indeed help

for clarification, as like so many other games, i feel the loot and trade system in this game are subpar and, therefore, my second run will impose restrictions, such as, no unlocked container looting, no looting enemies i dont kill, etc..

 

That will take some discipline as I have a tendency to pick stuff up because I am able to.  I have been pretty good about breakdown weapons and armor but when it comes to consumables and mods I horde them to a ridiculous degree.  Maybe I will implement your rule when I play my no levels take all flaws play through should add another layer of personal difficulty to it.

You can buy unique items of quite a few vendors but there is still the problem that you can find or pick up a basic item then make it out perform those items using what is the craft system in the game.  I am still not sure how I feel about the system on one hand I like crafting so if I can make/improve my own items beyond what I can find laying around if I build my character in a certain way I like that.  On the other hand why go through the trouble of making unique items available to find or buy when you can make better.  One of my first thoughts is that weapon/armor parts should be used in the tinkering process.  I find way more of these then I need to repair my equipment but if there was another sink for them I might be motivated to purchase them of a merchant as it is the only thing I by are picks and shunts but after a certain point through skills and equipment I am gathering quite a stack of those as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ommamar said:

That will take some discipline as I have a tendency to pick stuff up because I am able to.  I have been pretty good about breakdown weapons and armor but when it comes to consumables and mods I horde them to a ridiculous degree.  Maybe I will implement your rule when I play my no levels take all flaws play through should add another layer of personal difficulty to it.

You can buy unique items of quite a few vendors but there is still the problem that you can find or pick up a basic item then make it out perform those items using what is the craft system in the game.  I am still not sure how I feel about the system on one hand I like crafting so if I can make/improve my own items beyond what I can find laying around if I build my character in a certain way I like that.  On the other hand why go through the trouble of making unique items available to find or buy when you can make better.  One of my first thoughts is that weapon/armor parts should be used in the tinkering process.  I find way more of these then I need to repair my equipment but if there was another sink for them I might be motivated to purchase them of a merchant as it is the only thing I by are picks and shunts but after a certain point through skills and equipment I am gathering quite a stack of those as well.

It seems as im playing (have not left terra 2) that, as with almost every game i've played, the uniques become obsolete quickly due to cost when available.

In TOW, with my early unique experimentation i still dont understand this “tincker cost” issue because those two initial uniques only cost a tad bit more per tincker relative to the basic type.

The problem is that i cant buy them at the time cuz i have no bits.

Thats why uniques seem to never, ever work in console rpgs and it seems to be more of a specialized playthrough of “uniques” only runs.

As for the self-imposed restrictions component:  i (and many others) have been doing these since skyrim, since, its such a very poor game, as far as, rpg mechanics: mile wide/ inch deep. (and why i call it a sandbox sim and very, very rpg-lite)

So, ive had a decade of adding these personal restrictions to my games and they are second-nature. (same with no HUD) 

Like ive said before, i cant wait for my second run because ill add ALL of my self-imposed restrictions: realistic encumbrance, live with consequences, all flaws, no save scumming, no manipulation of skill checks via equipment/companions, no stealing (way too ez), no unlocked loot (way too much), no loot i didnt kill, must buy ammo/food, etcetc..

*props to Bigwooly’s skyrim runs!

 

 

Edited by thearmourofGod
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

It seems as im playing (have not left terra 2) that, as with almost every game i've played, the uniques become obsolete quickly due to cost when available.

In TOW, with my early unique experimentation i still dont understand this “tincker cost” issue because those two initial uniques only cost a tad bit more per tincker relative to the basic type.

The problem is that i cant buy them at the time cuz i have no bits.

Thats why uniques seem to never, ever work in console rpgs and it seems to be more of a specialized playthrough of “uniques” only runs.

As for the self-imposed restrictions component:  i (and many others) have been doing these since skyrim, since, its such a very poor game, as far as, rpg mechanics: mile wide/ inch deep. (and why i call it a sandbox sim and very, very rpg-lite)

So, ive had a decade of adding these personal restrictions to my games and they are second-nature. (same with no HUD) 

Like ive said before, i cant wait for my second run because ill add ALL of my self-imposed restrictions: realistic encumbrance, live with consequences, all flaws, no save scumming, no manipulation of skill checks via equipment/companions, no stealing (way too ez), no unlocked loot (way too much), no loot i didnt kill, must buy ammo/food, etcetc..

*props to Bigwooly’s skyrim runs!

 

 

Your post has an interesting tone as if I am some 10 year old kid who has just started playing video games and have not ever played a game with self imposed restrictions.  People love to bang on Skyrim but looking at Steam shows I have 668 hours on legacy steam and another 132 on the special edition so would be hypocritical of me to do so.  There are things from the earlier games all the way back to Daggerfall (if you are not aware there is a remake in Unity that captures the game well with a lot more stability and mods you can use to add to it) that I wish had been carried over and expanded on.  I still enjoyed it for what it was and occasionally fire it up for an hour or two to just run around.

I understand what you are saying about unique items they do have a sense of good for the level found to be replaced by better items.  I don't think they are much more then other items to tinker but unless you go heavy science after the first few levels of tinker it becomes prohibitively expensive to continue with it until you surpass the items level.

Link to post
Share on other sites

you would be absolutely incorrect in your opinion about my tone

it is because i truly loved what Bigwooly did years ago, know how it positively impacted me and love to let others know what it might do to their gaming lives

i use skyrim because that was the exact setting where i learned it

a game i was going to shelve forever suddenly had great value 

console version

btw, you are the one who stated having a problem with discipline.  people who regularly game with self-imposed restrictions dont struggle with that aspect

Edited by thearmourofGod
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ommamar said:

How much tinkering did you do?

  Reveal hidden contents

I saw someone on a stream talking about how if they bought the nav key to Stellar Bay they would of missed content, as you can just go to Cascadia port but it is a much harder path then using the nav key purchase.  The person has over 50k bits, it left me wondering if he had the same idea to save bits to get end game items.  TOW has an interesting design particularly with the science weapons in that they will only become good weapons if you put bits into tinkering with them, plus building the character in a certain way to maximize.  Once you figure out it doesn't really do any good to horde your bits thing can become easier.

 

I ended up maxing out my science to get the best value out of tinkering but before that i only tinkered as long as the cost was below a thousand, it was more efficient to just wait until the next tier of gear to show up and it's not like i really needed the extra damage at that point due to the op perks and such.
I didn't use any companions after the engineer companion died so i didn't spend any bits on companion gear. companions seemed way to fragile on supernova and I liked not micromanaging my companions' health pool to make sure they don't die rather than actually shooting the enemy. Maybe there should be a way to revive them at the cost of bits but it wouldn't make much of a difference in my decision.

Due to doing all the side-quests and killing every enemy between me and my objective, I always tended to be way over-leveled for the unique gear that i found and just ended up throwing unique weapons in storage instead of spending the 20-30k bits or so that it would take to get it up to my level assuming that the cost is consistently increasing exponentially and doesn't slow down after a certain point. Unique headgear was still relevant for their stat & damage bonuses so I upgraded and used those.

3 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

It seems as im playing (have not left terra 2) that, as with almost every game i've played, the uniques become obsolete quickly due to cost when available.

In TOW, with my early unique experimentation i still dont understand this “tincker cost” issue because those two initial uniques only cost a tad bit more per tincker relative to the basic type.

The problem is that i cant buy them at the time cuz i have no bits.

Thats why uniques seem to never, ever work in console rpgs and it seems to be more of a specialized playthrough of “uniques” only runs.

As for the self-imposed restrictions component:  i (and many others) have been doing these since skyrim, since, its such a very poor game, as far as, rpg mechanics: mile wide/ inch deep. (and why i call it a sandbox sim and very, very rpg-lite)

So, ive had a decade of adding these personal restrictions to my games and they are second-nature. (same with no HUD) 

Like ive said before, i cant wait for my second run because ill add ALL of my self-imposed restrictions: realistic encumbrance, live with consequences, all flaws, no save scumming, no stealing (way too ez), no unlocked loot (way too much), no loot i didnt kill, must buy ammo/food, etcetc..

*props to Bigwooly’s skyrim runs!

 

 

Though i haven't tried it myself, i don't think self imposed restrictions wouldn't make all these "sandbox sims" more fun as much as it would just artificially slow down progress in a game about progression and eventually becoming a power fantasy. That might even be the devs' intention to let the player become OP but since the world doesn't react to almost having enough bits to buy a space ship and being able to level every colony in the solar system, the game loses it's difficulty as a consequence.   I'm overall more a fan of games that use player progression/skill and not character progression but there aren't any games I've seen that provide an interactive branching story while not relying so heavily on rpg mechanics and character progression to the point that a difficulty setting is meaningless once your character exceeds a certain level.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

How the hell can I be incorrect on my opinion?! It might of not been your intent but my opinion is mine whether you consider it valid or not. 

I wouldn't say it is a problem with being disciplined as if I choose to play with certain restrictions but in general I only do that after I have explored a game a good bit, which means in a general play though I don't put restrictions on myself.  

Again it is that tone I am so much more advanced then you because you obviously don't play with self-imposed restrictions.  Even though I often do particularly after I have explored systems and the story of a game.  By its very definition playing with restrictions take discipline as you are choosing to experience a game in a way different then it was designed or as you would usually play it when first starting to play it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

KnightNine-

Hardcore self-imposed restrictions in skyrim and other rpgs (in truth, all games where applicable) is definitely not for everyone.  

However, many others love it as i do.

In fact, on consoles, i have a very hard time enjoying games due to their shallow gameplay, handholding, dumbing-down and lack of in-game consequences and rpg mechanics and so as with TOW i play out the beginning parts of the game to get a good feel for the game and then, off with the HUD and in with my restrictions so that i can enjoy the game.

Having done it for so long its just the norm and automatic, simple and easy to implement.

Having exposed people to this style of gaming for well over a decade and seeing their thankful responses and gratitude (just as i had) i continue onward.

As i learned from the beginning, start with a few basic, common-sense rules amd go from there.

*console gaming

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

lol

your opinion is provably incorrect as i, the author of thr comment you made an opinion about, told you, specifically, about my comments intent

your opinion was incorrect

to think that ones opinions cant be incorrect is a basic lack of logic

good grief

Your complaint was that I was trying to tell you how to think and act by posting an opinion opposite of what you posted.  Basically your position is that because my opinion doesn't match yours it was incorrect as if you are the valid authority on what my opinions are.  You can have what ever intent you  want  but you can't prove anything about my opinion of the tone I took from your post, the fact that you state it is provably incorrect as if you are some second rate god who has a say in what my opinion is.

 

Hey moderator I put this guy on ignore so I wouldn't see his posts, that doesn't appear to work even though he is in the being ignored box.  So how do I get it so I don't have to see his posts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't an opinion in the first place, it was O's interpretation of how T came across of which was to be condescending. Though I didn't feel the same way about T's post, I understand that it isn't that outrageous to assume that some hardcore gamer on a message board has a superiority complex but I would advise O that rushing to negative conclusions about peoples' "tone" just starts arguments over literally nothing as is happening currently.  If O were to continue with assuming that his interpretation was correct then that would become an opinion. An opinion is based on beliefs and can't be proven true or false even if the result of that opinion has a negative or positive outcome.

One's opinions can get in the way of objective reality (e.g. believing the sky is red) but usually these are extreme cases. They usually come with a layer of abstraction for it to remain an opinion.
Since no one here can quantify T's thoughts and intentions scientifically, the "truth" will remain abstract whether O were to ultimately agree with T on his intent or not.

I assume that most people tend to see things in terms of True or False, Moral or Immoral, and Good or Bad but that's just not how the world works from what I've seen, anyhow I personally am indifferent towards what anyone's opinion towards this is as it is my own experience. I could delve deeper about how reality itself is potentially also abstract but for for the purpose of this post, I wont.

Edited by KnightNine
Link to post
Share on other sites

good grief people

your “opinion” was based on my comment.  mine.

i know what i meant.  as well, it was clearly stated.

your opinion about my comment was incorrect as told to you by me, the person who made the comment

again, to say that your opinion cant be wrong because, lol its an “opinion” is illogical.

so stop trying to justify yourself behind a falsehood

lol, btw, i made a comment and YOU complained

YOU attempted to dictate my comments

i dont have to interpret your intent at all since you clearly stated your point

this is about YOU not liking my initial post

so dont try and switch and wiggle the subject around towards me

again, all i did was answer the question posed and i gave my reason why in a quick to the point way

nobody needs to research before giving their answer to a question; you got it backwards

attempting to direct/dictate someone elses comments on an internet discussion board is ridiculous

especially since your inappropriate comment was in response to, the oh so horrible,

”lol @ asexuality”

 

Edited by thearmourofGod
Link to post
Share on other sites

I will reply to you one more time thearmourofGod you egotistical cretin then I will ignore all posts you make, hopefully I can get some guidance so I don't see your stupidity on this forum but since you are already on ignore yet I still see your blather I might just have to skip over what ever you write.

You mistake my position as saying my opinion is correct what I am saying is that my opinion is validly mine correct or incorrect.  I don't care about what your intent was I stated my opinion of how your post came across.  Your response is that because you say my opinion was wrong because you say it is wrong, again your ego shows again instead of saying that wasn't my intent you decided someone who held a negative opinion of how you present yourself was wrong and invalid because it is you who was passing judgement on whether that opinion was correct or incorrect.  It doesn't matter what your intent was my reaction to the tone I perceived is my right to react to regardless if that reaction was correct/incorrect it was still valid.  Just because something is considered illogical to you doesn't mean the feeling and response is not valid.  I don't need to justify anything to you you waste of an O2 scrubber, but you do piss me off with this superior attitude you have that because I say you are wrong you are wrong.  I can hold whatever opinion I want about how you present yourself regardless of what you think of that opinions correctness, you have no authority over my thought.  I would say no effect but obviously that isn't true as I wrote all this out in response to your blather anyway you go do you and I will do my best to ignore any posts you produce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

thearmourofGod is entitled to his opinion that opinions can be true or false and to think otherwise is to be illogical. Though stating "to think that ones opinions cant be incorrect is a basic lack of logic" leaves no room for debate and reflects badly on thearmourofGod's willingness to try and comprehend the reasoning behind opposing views even if he could be correct. I don't blame him since this never started out as a respectful debate but rather just trying to "1up" each other on who is "correct".

Ommamar is entitled to his opinion that thearmourofGod is being egotistical through stating his opinion and that opinions are not provably true or false.

I don't really expect anyone to want to dive into a real discussion at this point among all the baseless insults between two people who barely know each other on the internet, but it gives me a chance to look into this more due to my personal interest.

I might've been mistaken in separating "false statements" from being classified as opinions after considering this though it's overall just semantics:
https://medium.com/@jason.richardsonwhite/why-opinions-can-be-true-or-false-and-why-it-matters-8180e4b16017
I could accept that some opinions can be proven true or false as opposed to my previous post where I wasn't considering them as opinions but rather as false statements since they can be objectively and directly quantified ("2+2 = 5" and so on).

I think I found the root of the misunderstanding:

  • the definition of an opinion is different between O and T
  • T believes opinions can be proven true or false
  • O, if he agrees with my initial assumption, believes that statements that can be objectively quantified as true or false do not qualify as opinions.

To see if O's opinion is an opinion that can be proven true or false we'd have to deconstruct the qualities of this opinion that are relevant. The article considers that the "relevant considerations have an independent, objective existence" that are not "made up by the person" will make a vague opinion as a whole (i.e. "Lincoln was the best president.") be proven true or false if these relevant objective qualities are present and accounted for. The issue with this is that the qualities that anyone considers relevant are biased, not necessarily universally agreed upon, and therefore subjective and it doesn't matter how many people are of the same opinion.

Despite this, If O is still here and is able to describe the individual objective qualities of his opinion, perhaps a better understanding would be reached even if the initial statement would still technically be subjective at the time it was made, if not then the opinion is subjective and not based on anything but emotion and would be in fact illogical though not objectively false. Subjectivity is illogical thearmourofGod.

 

Edited by KnightNine
Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't care if the guy thought my opinion was true or false it wasn't about me being right or wrong but his insistence that my opinion had no validity basically I took him as saying because he decided that my reaction was wrong I didn't have the right to react to his initial statement.  He could of simply stated what his intent was in the initial statement which I would of accepted as it is easy to miss intent and tone based on written statements posted on a internet forum.  Instead he seemed to have a because I say this your reaction was wrong and invalid as I am the authority on how you feel about something.

It doesn't matter as I figured out you have to check different choice boxes to implement the ignore so I don't see anything he says.  Matter is closed as far as I am concerned I try to limit the energy I spend on people who I view negatively.  I am glad I figured out the feature in the forum to assist me in doing that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...