Best druid multiclasses

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

Thanks. I checked in game (with CP installed) and found out that the boar DOT lasts the entire length of the spiritshift duration, which is 30+ seconds with high INT. And since it stacks, it really is OP, as noted in the thread above. So the Balance Polishing mod is clearly needed if you want to play a more moderate version of a boar druid.

Just to give a technical recap :

1) vanilla game is bugged for Shifter only due to DurationOverride parameter below

2) BPM corrected it by setting Duration Override to 0 but also implemented duration scaling by PL for Spiritshift and fixed 4 ticks for raw DoT

3) It would be possible to implement a more conservative solution that only sets Duration Override to 0 (but not the other changes). Maybe @Phenomenum and @MaxQuest would want it for CP.

 

            "DebugName": "Spiritshift_Boar_Shifter",

            "ID": "bbde23db-5a4b-4aca-bd69-4c9a9496c480",

            "Components": [{

                "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",

                "DurationOverride": 22,

Edited March 11, 2021 by Elric Galad

[dgray62]

It seems to me that it makes sense to correct the DurationOverride bug but to implement duration scaling by PL. This seems like a very reasonable fix IMO.

[Phenomenum]

On 3/11/2021 at 9:29 PM, Elric Galad said:

It would be possible to implement a more conservative solution that only sets Duration Override to 0 (but not the other changes).

Emm... Let's see: Boar's DOT is 10% of dmg dealt as RAW for 6 sec. base. It's applied by 3 sec. tick so we have 3 ticks within 6 sec. - total 30% dmg as RAW. DOT can be scaled by int so with 20 INT you'll receive 4 ticks - total 40% dmg. And yes, it's stackable (same story for Battle Axe DOT).

            "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "Spiritshift_Boar_SE_ApplyOnEvent",
            "ID": "f2d641f0-bf73-4a54-86e3-78a14042adf8",
            "Components": [
                {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "StatusEffectType": "ApplyStatusEffectToEnemyByDamageDealt",
                    "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
                    "OverrideDescriptionStringTactical": -1,
                    "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
                    "BaseValue": 0.1, = 10% of dmg dealt

 

            "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "Spiritshift_Boar_SE_RawDamage",
            "ID": "33b22e2d-a4b2-4da9-92d8-e1f525817541",
            "Components": [
                {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
                    "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
                    "OverrideDescriptionStringTactical": -1,
                    "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
                    "BaseValue": 0,
                    "DynamicValue": {
                        "Stat": "None",
                        "SkillDataID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "ClassID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "MultiplyBy": 1,
                        "Operator": "Add"
                    },
                    "KeywordsIDs": [],
                    "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
                    "Duration": 6,
                    "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
                    "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied",
                    "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick",
                    "IntervalRateID": "25acc41f-26a4-4ef7-9b7d-0f1bf0ddfe9f",

We can turn off stacking. Simple. Though i've played Shifter/Trickster (my favorite build) a lot (hell of a time) and i believe that Cat's form with Fast Attack ability is still be better in therms of DPS, and i use Boar form mostly for regeneration. So i, personally, don't see any OP here. If Boar DOT feels OP, then Cat Form paired with high DEX and DW passive is SUPER OP.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Exanos]

16 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

 

We can turn off stacking. Simple. Though i've played Shifter/Trickster (my favorite build) a lot (hell of a time) and i believe that Cat's form with Fast Attack ability is still be better in therms of DPS, and i use Boar form mostly for regeneration. So i, personally, don't see any OP here. If Boar DOT feels OP, then Cat Form paired with high DEX and DW passive is SUPER OP.

On ennemy with low to medium health pool certainly, on tanks/boss, the raw dot can escalate to absurd lvl out dpsing catform.

[Phenomenum]

26 minutes ago, Exanos said:

the raw dot can escalate to absurd lvl out dpsing catform.

OK, tested and i get it. Somehow DOT is still active beyond time limit. So the base 6 sec. limit is not working.

Need to think. Give me some time (about 1 week).

Edited March 12, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

For now, i can presume that we can rearrange this status-effect trough adding transfer  AttackOnEvent instead ApplyStatusEffectOnEvent (and then attack applies DOT). Maybe it can help.

Question: is this bug appears for other subclasses or for Shifter only?

Edited March 12, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

As far as I can tell it's only the Shifter.

[Phenomenum]

49 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

As far as I can tell it's only the Shifter.

It's strange, because Shifter and other subclasses uses the same status-effect for Boar DOT dmg...

Edited March 12, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

51 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

As far as I can tell it's only the Shifter.

Can u run some tests? I need a confirmation.

[Jayd]

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Though i've played Shifter/Trickster (my favorite build) a lot (hell of a time) and i believe that Cat's form with Fast Attack ability is still be better in therms of DPS, and i use Boar form mostly for regeneration. So i, personally, don't see any OP here. If Boar DOT feels OP, then Cat Form paired with high DEX and DW passive is SUPER OP.

As someone who's also played a hell of a lot of vanilla Shifter, I've also not noticed Boar DoT as anything crazy. Are we quite sure that this is as OP in practice as it is apparently is theoretically? Because I've not registered it with hundreds of hours on Shifter (I could just be dense).

[Phenomenum]

i've confirmed a vanilla bug: Boar's DOT do not limited by base time of 6 sec. It's still even after spiritshift is gone.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Elric Galad]

50 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

i've confirmed a vanilla bug: Boar's DOT do not limited by base time of 6 sec. It's still even after spiritshift is gone.

It only applies to Shifter's version, not other subclasses. It comes from the Shifter's Ability's DurationOverride parameter (see my post above) that exists only for Shifter's version and causes all substatus to use this value as duration instead of their own.

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, Jayd said:

As someone who's also played a hell of a lot of vanilla Shifter, I've also not noticed Boar DoT as anything crazy. Are we quite sure that this is as OP in practice as it is apparently is theoretically? Because I've not registered it with hundreds of hours on Shifter (I could just be dense).

I guess that's because it's not direct damage but DoT and needs a bit time to build up. Most enemies, if you attack them one at a time - die before it becomes obvious. But if you use it against damage sponges or divide your attacks between mutiple opponents it becomes fairly obvious imo.

I only tested it vs. dummies which are Rotghasts basically. They have high health but quite low defenses and they just melt from the DoT. In my tests I hit a dummy with one(!) Full Attack with a Helwalker/Shifter with +10 MIG and INT - and it was almost enough to kill them. Unlike some other raw DoTs like from Stalker's Patience etc. this raw DoT stacks!
And with high INT it reaches absurd durations with a Shifter Boar. Two Full Attacks from a non-optimzed test char and I get ticks of 30+ raw dmg for over 30 secs.

Maybe it doesn't even feel overpowered when you play in a "normal" way - it's just so different from the non-shifter boar forms. I think they should all work all in the same way (although it's of course fun to discover those things and play around them for a bit ). 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Boeroer

[Jayd]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe it doesn't even feel overpowered when you play in a "normal" way - it's just so different from the non-shifter boar forms. I think they should all work all in the same way (although it's of course fun to discover those things and play around them for a bit ). 

Yes what I get from this is that the bug doesn't really affect normal playing (in fact I know this because I have played with the Balance Polishing mod and haven't felt like I had a weak boar). And it actually seems kind of awkward to exploit it in a way that would be very impactful. A good shifter build will kill single targets long before the long duration matters and the time it takes to spread the DoTs around would simply never be worth it (it'll always be better to kill what's in front of you than running around spreading bleeds one by one) . Could be that Shifter Boar was better against bosses than I realised because Druid vs Boss is always a ridiculous number of damage ticks from spells and how strong the boar's contribution is was disguised. 

As you say, it'll be good to have things work consistently among the subclasses but this isn't a big deal imo.

[Boeroer]

Well the normal boar form isn't weak, it only has a far shorter DoT duration (3 sec base compared to 15 sec base of the Shifter!). If you keep pummeling the same enemy you wouldn't notice it - until it's an enemy with very high health.

But if you hit an enemy, then the next, then another one etc. it becomes superobvious. Keep in mind that the Helwalker I used in this case not only has +10 INT (so the duration is ridiculously long) but he also had Instruments of Pain. You'd just be standing there and maybe move a bit here and there but could attack a lot of different enemies with very little movement. Bang - bang - bang: three enemies are doomed to die with only three strikes. This type of combat could also be done with a Ranger/Shifter with Wounding Shot + Evansive Roll or Rogue with Ring the Bell + Deep Wounds + Escape. Fighter with Tactial Barrage and Clear Out (=AoE Boar Dot!) may also be worth a try. It could melt whole groups with only that one use of Clear Out...

Edited March 13, 2021 by Boeroer