Volourn Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Why? Eveyrone posting in this thread is in the toilet. We all speak trash about those we dislike - that includes Grom. LMAO 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 46 minutes ago, Volourn said: Why? Eveyrone posting in this thread is in the toilet. We all speak trash about those we dislike - that includes Grom. LMAO Even me? Surly not me ....Im above such things "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubarbarian Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 11:49 PM, BruceVC said: Even me? Surly not me ....Im above such things Hi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Rubarbarian said: image the sad part being the image represents the full dimensions o' a standard 2019 studio apartment in hong kong. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I'd vote for Sadiq Khan. Britain needs more Muslim leadership. 1 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, HoonDing said: I'd vote for Sadiq Khan. Britain needs more Muslim leadership. Nah they dont, why do you think that ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, BruceVC said: Nah they dont, why do you think that ? Why do you think they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, smjjames said: Why do you think they don't? Demographics Muslims make up 5 % of the total UK population, more or less http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population/ How many Christian ministers/mayors exist in the various countries in the ME? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Leadership should lead secularly, regardless of what their personal beliefs might be. A leader has responsibility to all those who they lead. Identity shouldn't be leveraged by the leader, and thus the identity of the leader shouldn't matter as long as they are fulfilling their duties. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, injurai said: Identity shouldn't be leveraged by the leader, and thus the identity of the leader shouldn't matter as long as they are fulfilling their duties. That'd be the ideal, yes, but when it comes to tribalism and large groups, it's not always the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, injurai said: Leadership should lead secularly, regardless of what their personal beliefs might be. A leader has responsibility to all those who they lead. Identity shouldn't be leveraged by the leader, and thus the identity of the leader shouldn't matter as long as they are fulfilling their duties. Nah, I prefer to focus on representation based on what the majority of the citizens of a country are based on there religion. When I see a change in the ME around this I will change my view. But I would be fine with more atheist\agnostic people in government as long as they suitably qualified "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I don't care who my leaders pray to, have sex with, dress like, or eat/drink/use in their free time. All I want from them is to do their damn jobs and leave me the f--k alone. Don't take any more of my money than the barest minimum the law requires. Don't tell me what I can/can't read/watch/listen to/ believe in. My home and my property are exclusively mine. Stay the f--k away and don't bother me about what I do there. If they do all that I don't care if they are fundamentalist Muslim, gay atheist, or bible thumping Pentecostal minister with a secret cocaine habit. 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarpen Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, injurai said: Leadership should lead secularly, regardless of what their personal beliefs might be. A leader has responsibility to all those who they lead. Identity shouldn't be leveraged by the leader, and thus the identity of the leader shouldn't matter as long as they are fulfilling their duties. So in that case Sadiq Khan is the last person to hold leadership position. He supports Sharia law and segregation of men and women. Evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 That's a pretty sharp sword you have there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarpen Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, injurai said: That's a pretty sharp sword you have there. Well thank you. It's actually hussar saber, I got one for birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 haha: https://www.superhappyfunamerica.com/ I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Guard Dog said: I don't care who my leaders pray to, have sex with, dress like, or eat/drink/use in their free time. All I want from them is to do their damn jobs and leave me the f--k alone. Don't take any more of my money than the barest minimum the law requires. Don't tell me what I can/can't read/watch/listen to/ believe in. My home and my property are exclusively mine. Stay the f--k away and don't bother me about what I do there. If they do all that I don't care if they are fundamentalist Muslim, gay atheist, or bible thumping Pentecostal minister with a secret cocaine habit. 3 hours ago, injurai said: Leadership should lead secularly, regardless of what their personal beliefs might be. A leader has responsibility to all those who they lead. Identity shouldn't be leveraged by the leader, and thus the identity of the leader shouldn't matter as long as they are fulfilling their duties. am agreeing with these sentiments, but what about the folks for whom their religion is central to their personal identity? do we dismiss them as wrong and move on to the next issue? bruce says 5% o' uk population, and am expecting a much higher % for london. even so, is 1 in 20 uk politicians islamic? am honest not knowing. more than Gromnir, people o' islamic faith and red state christians got their personal identity inextricable intertwined with their religious beliefs. should we marginalize those folks 'cause we personal find true zealots to be, at best, difficult to deal with? in a democracy, leaders should represent their constituents. those o' islamic faith deserve to be represented, no? is easy for leaders to dismiss small minorities in a democracy. claim they is leading for benefit o' the best o' all tends to result in minorities getting the fuzzy end o' the lollipop, regardless o' whether the minority is ethnic or religious or social. regardless, while am personal uncomfortable with folks who self-identify first and foremost based on their faith, it would be arrogant and narrow-minded o' us to judge such folks as undeserving o' democratic representation. and Gromnir would be worried 'bout any prominent politician with an illegal addiction. such problems open the politician to more nefarious influences and to outright blackmail. 'cause o' the illegal nature o' the addiction, the politician is vulnerable to being compromised by those with an agenda different than the politician and possibly antagonistic towards those who voted for the politician. HA! Good Fun! ps "That's a pretty sharp sword you have there." indeed. "sharp" were the first thing which came to mind. Edited June 5, 2019 by Gromnir missed pun "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubarbarian Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 6 hours ago, HoonDing said: I'd vote for Sadiq Khan. Britain needs more Muslim leadership. In case of UK it's wrong thing. Since the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, the British Monarch has also been the official supreme governor of the Church of England, the "Defender of the Faith" - fidei defensor. Each coronation takes place at a ceremony at Westminster Abbey, where the new monarch is crowned and blessed by the Primate of the Church of England (the Anglican church), the Archbishop of Canterbury. In addition, twenty six Anglican bishops sit in the House of Lords and Parliament itself starts each day with Christian prayers. No offence, but it's looks like not the best place for Muslims politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Gromnir said: and Gromnir would be worried 'bout any prominent politician with an illegal addiction. such problems open the politician to more nefarious influences and to outright blackmail. 'cause o' the illegal nature o' the addiction, the politician is vulnerable to being compromised by those with an agenda different than the politician and possibly antagonistic towards those who voted for the politician. That is only a problem because some things are arbitrarily illegal and other things are not. Maybe it should be no one's business what you put in or do with the body you supposedly own. I'm certain I recently heard abortion advocates say much the same thing. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: That is only a problem because some things are arbitrarily illegal and other things are not. Maybe it should be no one's business what you put in or do with the body you supposedly own. I'm certain I recently heard abortion advocates say much the same thing. typical is not arbitrary. there is usually dollar amounts which may be attributed to those prohibited activities. in any event, 'cause we love how your example closes the circle, we will observe how it is the democratic process which is resulting in those kinda prohibitions which offend gd. either direct, or by elected representative, gd's fellow citizens decide whether or not the well-documented dangers o' marijuana use by folks who are still undergoing brain development is the kinda thing which deserves the body public's attention and/or action. does Constitution preclude drug use from review by the democratic process? under certain circumstances, yes it does. can't force a person to take drugs, even if such drugs would be beneficial. different than saying it ain't up to government to decide what a person is allowed to take into their body. even beyond the legal reasons, should be obvious how such is different. what are the costs o' airplane pilots getting drunk or using lsd before a commercial flight? is airplane pilot on lsd an extreme example? sure it is, but as soon as you allow yourself to begin a cost v benefit analysis to decide which behaviors should be prohibited, then you are no longer dealing either legal or Constitutional issues. value judgements is for lawmakers who can create committees and do studies... is not fodder for judges and courts is moot in any event. the dangers o' being compromised 'cause the politician is seripticious doing that which is illegal not change in the least 'cause gd has self-contradictory love-hate relationship with democracy. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Rubarbarian said: In case of UK it's wrong thing. Since the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, the British Monarch has also been the official supreme governor of the Church of England, the "Defender of the Faith" - fidei defensor. Each coronation takes place at a ceremony at Westminster Abbey, where the new monarch is crowned and blessed by the Primate of the Church of England (the Anglican church), the Archbishop of Canterbury. In addition, twenty six Anglican bishops sit in the House of Lords and Parliament itself starts each day with Christian prayers. No offence, but it's looks like not the best place for Muslims politicians. Uh, nobody said that the monarch needed to be muslim?..... We're talking about politicians here, not the monarchy. As for the whole starting each day with a christian prayer, that's something Parliament is going to have to figure out as far as muslim politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubarbarian Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 54 minutes ago, smjjames said: Uh, nobody said that the monarch needed to be muslim?..... We're talking about politicians here, not the monarchy. As for the whole starting each day with a christian prayer, that's something Parliament is going to have to figure out as far as muslim politicians. You miss my point. UK is not even secular state, it's theocratic Protestant state and politicians who use their non-protestant faith as reason for being elected cause conflict with whole state system. Why it's bad? It's can cause reaction by same way as EU pressure cause Brexit, it's can make life of Muslims in UK only harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Rubarbarian said: You miss my point. UK is not even secular state, it's theocratic Protestant state and politicians who use their non-protestant faith as reason for being elected cause conflict with whole state system. Why it's bad? It's can cause reaction by same way as EU pressure cause Brexit, it's can make life of Muslims in UK only harder. UK consist of several states which have different levels of secularity. Like for example Northern Ireland and Wales don't have national church and Church of Scotland is independent of Church of England and its status as national church is not official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 @Gromnir If a theists/theocrats marginalization is a result from being unable to fulfill their ideation of an unchallenged examined and universalized instrumentation of their dogma, then they marginalize themselves in relation to having a need that is goes unfullfillable without the marginalizing others. It's not being done to them. What you secure in shared law and governance are rights that stem from a shared humanity. Some adopted/imbued perception of the world is not that, and if it borrows or derives from shared humanity it should be upheld in the properly abstracted secular terminology which doesn't venerate one theistic dogma above that of others. Further I object to your use of the world marginalized in the context of having a religious constituency which I remind has (or if we are talking ideals, should have) their right to private domains of life secured would somehow be marginalized because they don't dominate societal-wide legislation through the "democratic" ruse of never ceding the majority. I'd argue any government which isn't structured secularly is an aberration against common decency and shared humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, injurai said: @Gromnir If a theists/theocrats marginalization is a result from being unable to fulfill their ideation of an unchallenged examined and universalized instrumentation of their dogma, straw man. ignored rest of reply. HA! Good fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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