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So, Linger gives +100% linger duration for all phrases. In tun-based, the base linger of all chants is 0.5 rounds, so even with high starting Int, it seems extremely hard to get to 2 rounds of linger, making this whole ability rather pointless.

I'm no expert at the game, but from what I can tell, I'd need +200% linger duration to get 3 chants going at the same time. To get that duration bonus, my Int would have to be 30, which is possible but almost guranteed requires me to have an intelligence inspiration going on.

So, two questions for the people with much more experience than me:

1. Will int 30 actually be enough to get 3 chants going at the same time?

2. What's the best option to get easy and early access to an int inspiraton? Best thing that comes to my mind is Infuse with Vital Essense, but I might be missing something.

I was thinking Loremaster (Troubadour/Bloodmage) with max Int, Might and Perception, using Aefyllath -> The Dragon Thrashed -> Come Come. I'd rarely use invocations because of the increased cost. Probablay mostly low level debuff and control stuff like Hel-Hyraf and At the Sound.  Most other abilities would go to Wizard.

Would a melee Wizard work well for this concept? Spells would mostly be buffs and weapon summons. I was always intrigued by the weapon summon spells in Deadfire but in turn-based, they kind of waste your first round. Being a Loremaster would at least allow me to get my chants going at the same time. But I'm not sure if a chanter multiclass does enough for melee power to make a melee wizard actually useful.

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As someone who plays troubadour every single time, I should know these mechanics for sure, but AFAIK the troubadour linger bonus is not affected by int (in RTWP anyway). So that means you have to amplify the base linger bonus by a whole round, which should require fifty int.

If I haven't been fooling myself since release it takes 20 int to keep 2 phrases up in RTWP and it'd take 60 to keep up 3. In other words, you might be happy you can get the same jobs done in TB with 10 less int, even if 50 int is out of reach anyway ^^

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Base linger is 0.5 rounds (even for non-troubadours with 10 int). I'd assume this is rounded up to 1 round, is it not? So I thought a total linger of 1.5 rounds (30 int troubadour) would make the linger be rounded up to 2 rounds.

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8 minutes ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

Oh, I thought 0.5 rounds meant it would expire at a certain point during the round (after everyone within a certain threshold of initiative had acted). 30 int sounds right if it rounds.

I'm pretty sure the game doesn't do half round durations. It always rounds to full ronds in some way.

But unforunately, the Troubadour doesn't work this way. I just had the "great idea" of using console commands (aka cheats) to do some testing. Int 30 (i.e. 1.5 rounds of linger) is rounded down to 1 round.

Also, the hard cap for attributes seems to be 35. And even that resulted in only one round of phrase lingering. This means the Linger Ability of the Troubadour does absolutely nothing in turn-based combat. Well, unless your chanter has less than 10 int and you use Linger to get the phrase linger back to 1 round.

I'll just forget this character idea and add Linger to the growing list of abilities that just don't work in turn-based combat.

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1 hour ago, Blave said:

I'm pretty sure the game doesn't do half round durations. It always rounds to full ronds in some way.

I'm not sure about this. I recently started a Beckoner in turnbased mode with 18 INT and noticed that "Come Come Soft Winds of Death" does two ticks per "round". The first tick is on the beginning of my round and the second tick is on the beginning of the enemies round.

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33 minutes ago, Tommy1984 said:

I'm not sure about this. I recently started a Beckoner in turnbased mode with 18 INT and noticed that "Come Come Soft Winds of Death" does two ticks per "round". The first tick is on the beginning of my round and the second tick is on the beginning of the enemies round.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. The question is, does the enemy still have the come come effect as debuff after he took the damage? And I think he does, so he should still take damage on his next turn even if he's out of your chanting range.

From what I can tell, that's mostly a matter of weird implementation.

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Note that for TB mode durations of less than 6s round up to 1 round, whereas all other durations round down. This means that there are some weird breakpoints and it is in fact extremely hard to get short duration effects (like linger) to last 2 rounds (because you have to get to 12 second duration).

In particular int adjusts off base 3s linger, and troubadour is an additive 1.5s (50%) bonus off that base. To get to 12 seconds you'd need a separate, whopping +250% duration bonus on top of troubadour. For all intents and purposes the extra linger is pointless in turnbased.

Come, come ticks for damage every 3 seconds so it would be one per half round. I think how it's handled in game is an implementation detail. For example if you enable brisk recitation, it means your chants only take half a round to sing and in practice means in tb mode two phrases per your turn (does not wait until enemy turn, for example).

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15 hours ago, thelee said:

Note that for TB mode durations of less than 6s round up to 1 round, whereas all other durations round down. This means that there are some weird breakpoints and it is in fact extremely hard to get short duration effects (like linger) to last 2 rounds (because you have to get to 12 second duration).

In particular int adjusts off base 3s linger, and troubadour is an additive 1.5s (50%) bonus off that base. To get to 12 seconds you'd need a separate, whopping +250% duration bonus on top of troubadour. For all intents and purposes the extra linger is pointless in turnbased.

Come, come ticks for damage every 3 seconds so it would be one per half round. I think how it's handled in game is an implementation detail. For example if you enable brisk recitation, it means your chants only take half a round to sing and in practice means in tb mode two phrases per your turn (does not wait until enemy turn, for example).

Thanks for the information on rounding! That does indeed explain quite a lot. Too bad Linger becomes anoher dead ability, but I guess that's to be expected when you tack on a turn-based mode on a RTwP game.

I kept playing around with the idea of a loremaster blaster. Come Come seems to inflict damage on being applied to the enemy and then again on each of their turns as long as it lingers. Strangely enough, this actually means its damage per round is increased by Brisk Recitation since removing the Linger means the debuff gets applied every round, giving you two damage ticks per round. I've also noticed some enemies taking another tick of reduced damage at the end of their turn. I'll have to take a closer look on that one but maybe Come Come applies another 50% dmaage Tick when it expires or something like that. That would actually make it a pretty significant damaging Aura, especially for a passive ability. Also makes me wonder if The Dragon Thrashed has similar behavior in turn-based.

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3 hours ago, Blave said:

Thanks for the information on rounding! That does indeed explain quite a lot. Too bad Linger becomes anoher dead ability, but I guess that's to be expected when you tack on a turn-based mode on a RTwP game.

I kept playing around with the idea of a loremaster blaster. Come Come seems to inflict damage on being applied to the enemy and then again on each of their turns as long as it lingers. Strangely enough, this actually means its damage per round is increased by Brisk Recitation since removing the Linger means the debuff gets applied every round, giving you two damage ticks per round. I've also noticed some enemies taking another tick of reduced damage at the end of their turn. I'll have to take a closer look on that one but maybe Come Come applies another 50% dmaage Tick when it expires or something like that. That would actually make it a pretty significant damaging Aura, especially for a passive ability. Also makes me wonder if The Dragon Thrashed has similar behavior in turn-based.

what probably happens in turn-based mode is that DoTs and debuffs on a character don't progress don't advance until a character's turn.

All DoTs do damage upon initial application as well. If the duration is not a multiple of 3, the last tick is a "partial" damage tick (so if you have a 1.5s duration tick left, it only does half the normal 3s tick damage).

so maybe what's happening is that even with seconds->turn rounding, the game internally tracks how many ticks (including fractional ticks) of damage a dot does, and applies it correctly behind the scenes, which is why you might see a reduced damage tick at end of turn.

like you say, this might have some odd interactions with TB mode.

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