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Fire at Notre-Dame Cathedral


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57382196_2589220424439720_24234531337671

 

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Apparently that cross was in an alcove, so was well off, all considered. Hm, wonder what it is called to describe metal behavior at different temperatures

When you were in college you likely took a class call Strength of Materials, or Engineering Materials, or something along those lines. For me it was a four class series all Eng undergrads took no matter what discipline they were in: Statics, Dynamics, Fluid Mechanics, and Strength of Materials. The Comp Sci guys were bored out of their minds!

 

Nah I skipped that and took Engineering Biology. Pretty boring but at least I spent a class with all the ladies in Engineering (this was before we got deep into our disciplines). Just was wondering what a fancy term for that was, like "enthalpic elasticity curve" or some such jargon.

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

Don't think anyone worships the cross, usually the Virgin Mary is the idolatry charge.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Still though, I can only think of a few metals that would melt under 600 degrees

Are steel beams one of them?

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Melting points...

 

I'm so hot!

 

I know from personal experience that when you light a large pile of magnesium, it burns very hot and very bright :lol:

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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57382196_2589220424439720_24234531337671

 

Didn't much of the contents at floor level remain untouched though? Some of the pictures seemed to show row upon row of wooden pews that were pretty unscathed. My understanding is that though the roof collapsed, only parts of the vault ceiling underneath collapsed while other parts still held up. So, perfectly reasonable that a lot of the cathedral's contents remained intact, even regardless of melting points and whatnot.

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Hm, wonder what it is called to describe metal behavior at different temperatures

 

It's one of a metal's ductility functions, iirc. Can't remember which, I didn't like physical chemistry/ material science much.

 

Ironically the more stable a metal is atomically the lower it's melting point. Larger (atomically larger) metals that ionize easily (meaning electrical conductors) tend to have high melting points. This seems like something I used to know the why of but I believe that brain cell that held that data was killed by bourbon. 

 

Can't imagine you'd need to know the details for any practical applications, but chemically speaking that's all incorrect I'm afraid. I suspect you've misremembered some of the stuff on ductility/ malleability. There aren't really any rules for stability vs melting point, but there are some guidelines for other relationships like ability to make good wires and ability to conduct well being linked to having a medium MP (that the three best conductors in silver, gold and copper all make good wires and have MPs around 1000C is not coincidental).

 

 

 

Iron is most atomically stable of all elements, but has a high MP. At high atomic weights, gold is far more stable than polonium (which is fundamentally unstable) but has a lot higher MP. Several very high MP elements (~3000C) are very close to Gold on the periodic table as well, and are stable. Metal conductors don't ionise to conduct, they use shared electrons from covalent metal bonds to conduct electricity which have excellent mobility. Those electrons also influence melting point somewhat and especially ability to physically form good wires as well, hence it not being coincidental as above.

 

Of course, metal ions are often be used as part of the generation of electricity in batteries, eg lead/acid, NiCd, Lithium ion.

 

Edited by Zoraptor
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So, apparently Macron wants to try and get it rebuilt in five years, but everything I've heard and read indicates that it's going to be a long delicate proccess that is going to take 10 years to complete because there is a lot of careful work that you have to do.

 

The roof is likely going to be prioritized for obvious reasons and I could see that getting set up quickly, but even if you poured a HUGE amount of resources into it, it still doesn't change the fact that it's not something that can be slapped together in the same way you can build a skyscraper in five years. I checked and the next French Presidential elections are three years away, so, there may not be political motivation in the sense of upcoming elections, but still.

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

 

What Christians are you referring to? Catholics tend to love their gaudy symbols.

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Ironically the more stable a metal is atomically the lower it's melting point. Larger (atomically larger) metals that ionize easily (meaning electrical conductors) tend to have high melting points. This seems like something I used to know the why of but I believe that brain cell that held that data was killed by bourbon.

 

Can't imagine you'd need to know the details for any practical applications, but chemically speaking that's all incorrect I'm afraid. I suspect you've misremembered some of the stuff on ductility/ malleability. There aren't really any rules for stability vs melting point, but there are some guidelines for other relationships like ability to make good wires and ability to conduct well being linked to having a medium MP (that the three best conductors in silver, gold and copper all make good wires and have MPs around 1000C is not coincidental).

 

 

 

Iron is most atomically stable of all elements, but has a high MP. At high atomic weights, gold is far more stable than polonium (which is fundamentally unstable) but has a lot higher MP. Several very high MP elements (~3000C) are very close to Gold on the periodic table as well, and are stable. Metal conductors don't ionise to conduct, they use shared electrons from covalent metal bonds to conduct electricity which have excellent mobility. Those electrons also influence melting point somewhat and especially ability to physically form good wires as well, hence it not being coincidental as above.

 

Of course, metal ions are often be used as part of the generation of electricity in batteries, eg lead/acid, NiCd, Lithium ion.

 

I seem to remember that melting point and cohesion in general was a result of delocalized electrons. The amount of those depends on how many electrons there are in the highest energy orbitals compared to how many the orbital can hold (as in the case of mercury, both the d and s orbitals are full, so you have crap cohesion and a metal that is liquid at room temp). So, similar melting points within a group given their equivalent outer shell electronic configurations (as is the case with Cu, Ag and Au), increasing mp as period increases, and decreasing mp as we move to the right on the periodic table as orbitals get filled up.

 

Electronic configuration isn't as far as I know related to nucleus stability.

 

 

However that's all off the top of my head, and I'm getting stupider all the time, so it's entirely possible that all of the above is complete nonsense.

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

 

What Christians are you referring to? Catholics tend to love their gaudy symbols.

 

Iconoclasm. I think it's considered one of the big causes for the break between eastern Orthodoxy and western Catholicism, although I think there's also some debate about exactly how much.

Edited by Bartimaeus

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

 

What Christians are you referring to? Catholics tend to love their gaudy symbols.

 

I'm sure most of them are supposed to follow those 10 amendments Moses brought down from a mountain top or some such (15 if you believe in Monty Python)

 

Edit: Commandments, dangit, not amendments. I had religion/history class about the subject in my native Danish as a kid ;)

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Iconoclasm. I think it's considered one of the big causes for the break between eastern Orthodoxy and western Catholicism, although I think there's also some debate about exactly how much.

If you are interested in history, I can recommend reading up on the schism between Rome and Constantinople, the hostility between the Latin and Greek descendants of the Roman Empire, the Patriarch of Rome deciding he was better than the other four Patriarchs and declaring himself Pope and leading the western part of the Orthodox church into what became Catholicism. Basically, the Catholics were the first heretics of the church.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

 

What Christians are you referring to? Catholics tend to love their gaudy symbols.

 

Iconoclasm. I think it's considered one of the big causes for the break between eastern Orthodoxy and western Catholicism, although I think there's also some debate about exactly how much.

 

 

There was also a smaller split I think with Catholics and Protestants, though it was less iconoclasm and more 'getting rid of the excesses'

 

Also, you may be thinking of the part about worshipping false idols, which just means that god doesn't care whether you pray at a golden statue as long as it's HIS golden statue.

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There was also a smaller split I think with Catholics and Protestants, though it was less iconoclasm and more 'getting rid of the excesses'

 

Also, you may be thinking of the part about worshipping false idols, which just means that god doesn't care whether you pray at a golden statue as long as it's HIS golden statue.

Tl;dr; version of Protestants, they were the rabid militants of their time. The trigger was the Catholic church's obsession with secular stuff and the increased focus on wealth of a material kind rather than a spiritual kind. The ability to buy absolution for hard cash at a time of resentment, was the proverbial drop. Bibles had to be translated to local languages so nobody had an excuse for not acting piously and religion should dominate your life, not being an esoteric thing you heard some clergy man ramble on about in a language you didn't understand anyway (in Latin).

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Didn't the Christians have some kind of constitutional amendment against worship of symbols anyway?

 

What Christians are you referring to? Catholics tend to love their gaudy symbols.

 

Iconoclasm. I think it's considered one of the big causes for the break between eastern Orthodoxy and western Catholicism, although I think there's also some debate about exactly how much.

 

 

There was also a smaller split I think with Catholics and Protestants, though it was less iconoclasm and more 'getting rid of the excesses'

 

Also, you may be thinking of the part about worshipping false idols, which just means that god doesn't care whether you pray at a golden statue as long as it's HIS golden statue.

 

From what I recall, there was a period of time after the Western Roman Empire had fallen, but after which Roman Emperor Justinian had again retaken Italy and integrated it back into the (previously Eastern) Roman Empire, that the Roman Empire had outlawed all kinds of icons - of saints, of God, of Jesus, etc. The western part of the Roman Empire, especially in Italy, had no interest in enforcing this policy, leading to increasing religious and political autonomy from Constantinople. It also didn't help that the Roman Empire had more literally started to lose territory in Italy in the couple of centuries beyond Justinian, among other reasons leading to the pope eventually looking for protection elsewhere and subsequently embracing and crowning the German/Frankish king Charlemagne as the "Holy" Roman Emperor while rejecting Roman Empress Irene (funnily enough, an iconophile herself). As Gorth mentioned, the Great Schism (a couple of centuries later) would be the more or less official point in time that Orthodoxy and Catholicism were completely divorced from one another.

 

(edit): Also, "a smaller split I think with Catholics and Protestants"? Not sure that you can call the Reformation "a small split", really, :p.

Edited by Bartimaeus

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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Well, I meant in terms of iconoclasm since that’s what you were talking about and the Great Schism had iconoclasm as a major point of split, among others. What I gather from the Reformation is that there wasn’t really any iconoclasm in the Orthodoxy sense, just returning to the simpler iconographic roots. Protestant groups that had a more Orthodox view on iconography could have existed, but they weren’t the mainstream movements

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Billionaires raced to pledge money to rebuild Notre Dame. Then came the backlash.

 

The eventual reconstruction of Notre Dame is now a foregone conclusion. Within hours of the fire that destroyed much of the cathedral on Monday, donors pledged more than $1 billion to restore the Parisian icon to its former glory.
 
Officials are still assessing the extent of the damage, so the cost of Notre Dame’s reconstruction remains unknown, but these and the many other donations coming in should pretty well cover it.
 
In the meantime, the cascade of cash that materialized overnight to save the cathedral has raised eyebrows in France, still in the throes of a crippling protest over rising social inequality and whose leader is regularly decried as the “president of the rich.”
 
“Of course, I find it nice, this solidarity,” said Ingrid Levavasseur, a leader of the yellow vest movement that has protested inequality in a series of often violent Saturday demonstrations since mid-November. The stream of donations essentially confirmed the movement’s broader social critique, Levavasseur said.
 

 

“If they can give tens of millions to rebuild Notre Dame, then they should stop telling us there is no money to help with the social emergency,” Philippe Martinez, head of the CGT trade union, said on Wednesday.
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Billionaires raced to pledge money to rebuild Notre Dame. Then came the backlash.

 

The eventual reconstruction of Notre Dame is now a foregone conclusion. Within hours of the fire that destroyed much of the cathedral on Monday, donors pledged more than $1 billion to restore the Parisian icon to its former glory.
 
Officials are still assessing the extent of the damage, so the cost of Notre Dame’s reconstruction remains unknown, but these and the many other donations coming in should pretty well cover it.
 
In the meantime, the cascade of cash that materialized overnight to save the cathedral has raised eyebrows in France, still in the throes of a crippling protest over rising social inequality and whose leader is regularly decried as the “president of the rich.”
 
“Of course, I find it nice, this solidarity,” said Ingrid Levavasseur, a leader of the yellow vest movement that has protested inequality in a series of often violent Saturday demonstrations since mid-November. The stream of donations essentially confirmed the movement’s broader social critique, Levavasseur said.
 

 

“If they can give tens of millions to rebuild Notre Dame, then they should stop telling us there is no money to help with the social emergency,” Philippe Martinez, head of the CGT trade union, said on Wednesday.

 

It doesn't surprise me that the French trade unions and especially the anarchist, violent and myopic   "  yellow vest movement " ( though still protesting weekly, they have been at it for 20 weeks,  they are vastly reduced in number and vigor )   are complaining about the perceived unfair spending on Notre Dame

 

Why should the French government acquiesce to a group that was demanded the president resigns by damaging property and trying to destroy Frances historical sites ? Thats not how you get a Democratically elected president to resign. So to explain it to the yellow vest movement another way

 

" of course France has money and wealthy citizens but we dont like you so there is no money for you  "  ....there, no more confusion around why the Notre Dame is being funded  :teehee:

 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190317-france-paris-riot-champs-elysees-yellow-vest-fouquet-macron

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