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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Some random thoughts about trinkets from this threat - some weeks ago. Maybe aleady forgotten. ;)

RqeCrea.jpg

Seriously, you're crazy man, in good therms :)

Edited by Phenomenum
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

The SoT+Brilliant cheese is not caused by SoT, it's caused by Brilliant. Next you'd have to nerf Wall of Draining... ;)

Technically the SoT + Brilliant is caused by their combination :)

 

And uhm, I don't think that Brilliant is OP if used without SoT, in a 5-man party, in fights that don't have to deal with HP bloat.

Also there are not so many sources of it:

  • Ancestor's Memory: 70 focus for +1 resource/6s, over base 12s.
  • Brilliant Tactician: flank all enemies, and make sure no friendly units are flanked
  • Shroud of the Phantasm (1% chance on taking damage: +1 resource/6s), over base 6s

If anything, I would just make sure that:

  • Mind Over Matter (Shroud of the Phantasm) and Blade Cascade (Scordeo's Edge) don't trigger out of combat, and when there are no enemies in 12m.
  • Wizard's Walls can't be cast out of combat.
  • Damage that would kill the character, but was prevented by Barring Death's Door, has a 25% chance to apply an injury.
Edited by MaxQuest
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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

@MaxQuest what do think about trinkets, man? Or i can decide this on my own, with Boeroer's help?

I think it would be nice to add ~4 trinkets to priest, and ~4 to druid.

And instead of making a trinket for each subclass, I would rather look in the direction that strengthens some specific roles, or opens up new builds.

For example priests:

  1. something that improves the support role. And is thematically close to a prayer book. E.g, the already suggested: Dyrwooden Prayerbook.
  2. something that improves the fire or punishment aspect. Like the already suggested Sermon of Punishment and Redemption.
  3. something that opens a new way to play. For example I like that the suggested Finger of Death comes with a trade-off like - 5 CON, +5 RES + Come Sweet Winds of Death. Although dunno how will this play out with a 3-CON character. An alternative approach could be: has -5 accuracy malus; but passively drains +4 accuracy from each afflicted enemy nearby. Dunno, but something to accentuate the ghastly touch theme.
  4. something that would either capitalize on anti-vessel/anti-evil aspect. E.g: takes -25% damage from vessels; Halt spell when used against vessels also applies paralyze.
  5. something something shadow priest? Heal party for a percentage of damage dealt with corrode spells? Although dunno how to do it.

 

And for druids:

  1. I like the "Corrupting Roots: +1 PEN with all Decay abilites (like Spirit of Decay, stacks), -20% healing done" from Shrunken Head of the Pŵgra.
  2. something to boost Healing role.
  3. something to boost Melee/Spiritshift damage
  4. something to boost the duration/aoe of storm/ground stuff, at the cost of beast stuff or corrode damage

 

P.S. I can help adding them to vendors or locations across Deadfire, and also implement a few. But am not sure if I will have time to implement all of them in the nearby few weeks; thus would require cooperation^^

 

Edited by MaxQuest
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1 minute ago, MaxQuest said:

For example priests:

Ohhh... with respect, but too much "something". If we keep this vagueness, we'll never end this quest.
So, if you don't have a distinct vision, maybe you can help us with existing concept? We can develop and change it later. What do think about it?


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Posted (edited)

Maybe add a trinket for cipher and paladins to let them cast ally only spells/abilities on themselves? Name it Selfish for paladin's trinket and Idiohypnotism for ciph's? Not sure how hard to implement this.

Edited by dunehunter
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Posted (edited)

Concerning the trinket discussion, I see two different approaches to the issue.

1) The first approach is to build trinkets that directly buff Priests and Druids to give them Wizard-Like spell availability.  I think what Boeroer and Phenomenum have suggested goes down this line of logic.  I agree that Priests and Druids need some help to bring them up to par, and this approach combats the issue directly.

2) The second approach is to design trinkets that are a meaningful choice you can take to alter your build or strategy.  Maxquest's earlier suggestion follows this direction, and I think its the direction I personally prefer.

My main criticism with the first approach is that if you make the trinkets specialization-specific, why are they trinkets and not just baseline changes?  If I'm a priest of Magran and I get a trinket that only works for me, I am going to seek that item out early and never change it out for the rest of the game.

The second approach allows you to make interesting tradeoffs.  I'm not a game dev by any means, but maybe a few trinkets might look like:

Broken Shard of Skaen

Your priest spells deal 20% extra damage to enemies who qualify for Sneak Attack (give back the PoE 1 benefit!), and maybe you have a 15% chance to regain a random spell when you kill an enemy.

Hylea's Birdcall
Gain 1 extra cast of PL 1, PL3, and PL 5 Priest Spells each encounter.

Abydon's Cracked Hammer
Regain 1 cast of your lowest power level spell every 15 seconds (Turns off when you are withdrawn or in stasis)

Abydon's Amazing Armoire
For each Weapon Specialization Talent you have taken, gain a cast of a new Spiritual Weapon once per encounter
one hand:  ???  Ondra's Rapier???
Two hand: Magran's Arquebus (fire lash), maybe a melee weapon as well?  Gaun's Reaper (2h axe?)
Dual Wield:  ????
Shield Specialization:  ???

These trinkets would be equip-able by priests of any denomination, and help you choose between a variety of playstyles or adapt to particular situations.  Obviously these three trinkets are super imbalanced but hopefully the idea shines through.  The downside is that each trinket would be harder to code, but it would make the game more interesting I feel and carve out a different niche for priest relics besides "a passive that I buy from a vendor somewhere."

Edited by Zenzen

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Skaen's Sneak Attack in PoE only worked with weapons, but I get your point.

I don't think 1) and 2) contradict each other by the way. We could totally combine both: give some additional spells that fit the theme of the trinket to expand the spell pool AND add some nice "special features" like you described. 

To use the example of Skaen's Shard: a) get a few Condemnation/Punishment spells and b) add Sneak Attack Bonus to spells. 

And as my examples show I'm totally for that. To make Priests and Druids more versatile and end the spell choice "railroading" at level up AND at the same time give some nice build options and twists.

It may be right that making special trinkets for a subclass that have only upsides is the same as making no trinkets but just adding the upsides to the subclass. I think this idea rose up because I wanted to bring back the old PoE Priest weapons (Magran = Arquebus and so on).

So we could do the following:

a) make the alternative Spiritual Weapons  native abilities - no trinket involved (@AndreaColombo suggested it already) - and develop trinkets like I said above. Ones that add spells that fit the trinket theme and adds another fitting "twist". You can also see those in the examples I quoted above. This has to be easy enough though else it's not moddable.

b) make the trinkets with the spiritual weapons non subclass restrictive. That means every Priest could use Magran's Arquebus or Berath's Mace etc.

Solution a) would be cleaner. Keep in mind that your dispositions influence the power of the spiritual weapon. So it's loosely tied to subclass dispositions anyway. However: solution b) opens up more options. For example you could use Magran's Arquebus without drawback as non-magranite Priest if you managed to not collect contradicting dispositions. AND it would allow for spiritual weapons of deities that are not in the game (hello Abydon's Spiritual Hammer...). 

Now we have to decide which route to go...

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Posted (edited)

I made up my mind for b). Implement non-subclass restrictive trinkets for Priests and Druids. Those will have some bonus spells (like Grimoires) that broaden your portfolio. This may include new spiritual weapons. AND/OR they add some other features (like PL bonus, Lesser Sneak or whatever) which fit the theme of the trinket and can give a twist. I already "brainstormed" that Shifter trinket that would turn Spiritshift into a modal for example.

What do you think?

Edit: oh, and I don't want to go for "Magran's x" and "Skean's Y" as trinket names by the way. This is just a minor detail, but I think it would be more interesting to use themes that are build around saints (like St. Rumbalt) and relics and stuff. So for example instead of Skean's Shard it could be "Slaves Worry Stone" and be themed around despair and oppression and give the according spells and feats. Instead of "Abydon's Armory" it would be "St. Durwell's Rivet" or something. Just to make things more interesting and lore-ish. There are several saints mentioned in books and items. Also one could pay tributes to certain chars from PoE this way. Imagine "Scorched Piece of Cloth" which is actually a part of Durance's Robe - which gives you some Punishment spells and a spiritual weapon "Durance's Staff". Or "the Apprentice's Honing Stone" which is from the girl in WM who build the Unlabored Blade. It would be themed around Abydon's and say some words about the girl in it's description. Stuff like that. Just brainstorming here...

Edited by Boeroer
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So, if we are doing trinkets: what can I do?

Write down exemplary trinkets as inspirations so we can run polls on them? Do some icons for trinkets? Writing descriptions?

If somebody points me to where I can learn everything I need to know about Deadfire modding (fast) I would also be willing to implement them - if that makes any sense from a cost-benefit ratio perspective. I mean I am a software engineer - I just had no motivation to dive into Deadfire modding so far... ;)    

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It works, and it looks great!

Quick feedback after a cursory look:

  • Some of the icons look a bit blurry. Examples I caught include Helwalker, Helscar, and Sneak Attack.
  • Some of the icons aren't centered and you can see their squared borders within the circle. Those I noticed are Two Weapon Fighting (border visible at the top and left), Two Handed Style (border visible at the right and bottom), Tumbling (border visible at the right and bottom), Wildstrike Freeze (border visible at the top and left), Wildstrike Frenzy Shock (border visible at the left)

I must say it makes quite a difference to have unique icons for the passives!


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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22 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Some of the icons aren't centered and you can see their squared borders within the circle. Those I noticed are Two Weapon Fighting (border visible at the top and left), Two Handed Style (border visible at the right and bottom), Tumbling (border visible at the right and bottom), Wildstrike Freeze (border visible at the top and left), Wildstrike Frenzy Shock (border visible at the left)

Strange. Everything fine on my side. Post some screens, please.


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Looks GREAT! Thank you guys for your work.

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It might be due to using different screen resolutions. I’m using 1440p. I’ll post screenshots of what I see later today (AFK right now.)


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Posted (edited)

There goes my rigid work schedule for today... 😄

Will install asap and yell "ah screw you work!"

Edited by Boeroer
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Will install asap and yell "ah screw you work!"

A you intended to look on icons allday? :grin:

P.S. @AndreaColombo i don't forgot about Shifting Croma and Bodyguard. They are ready, i'll add them on release.

Edited by Phenomenum
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sure 😄

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Posted (edited)

I think I looked at the passives of all classes now. There are one or two that might need a little rework (e.g. Psychic Backlash) but the vast majority looks great. Even those I feared would look crappy (like for example Protective Companion and Stalker's Link) turned out good at 42x42.

Details via PM. :)

Edited by Boeroer

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@Phenomenum:  Nalpasca has the best background color of them all. 😄

Love it!

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