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People trolling the POE2 Steam site ...


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#21
Gfted1

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^Wasnt ToW originally being offered on GoG and Steam and has now been yoinked after the fact?



#22
Boeroer

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I don't know if they already showed up as offers, but it was announced that TOW would be released on Steam several times in teasers and interviews.

The impression of dickishness may not only result from that but also from the fact that the Epic Store has a bad reputation. Now people who were super hyped to learn about that game feel forced to buy the game on a platform they are totally not hyped about. The frustration is understandable, even if I don't feel it myself.

Was the same with the "physical copies" of Deadfire not long ago: even if you are not affected personally you should be able to understand why people might be frustrated or disappointed.

Edited by Boeroer, 25 March 2019 - 07:58 AM.


#23
Amentep

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Again maybe its the fact that I was there for the console wars, but exclusive titles just seem to be an odd thing to get angry over, even more so given the fact that everyone who dislikes the Epic store can just wait out the exclusive period rather than support that storefront.

The easiest way to kill the Epic exclusive strategy (if one dislikes it) is to not support it; enough people do that then Epic won't have an incentive to continue throwing money at companies for times exclusives.

#24
Gfted1

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But didn't the publicist say something to the effect of (paraphrasing:) "Were not worried about backlash, weve secured funds for YEARS TO COME!"?



#25
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Even though I don't own a console I can totally understand that a gamer might get frustrated if he learns about the release of an exclusive game they would like to play - but can't because it gets released on a console they didn't buy. It's even worse than on PC. Not being (slightly) angry about such things just speaks of blunted affect. ;)
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#26
Amentep

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I get being being disappointed.

 

 

Perhaps for some disappointment turns to anger.  But people act like companies have betrayed them personally with these decisions to go to the Epic storefront (or to be exclusive to a system during the console wars) in expressing their ire (and doing things like trolling the PoEII steam page which has nothing to do with the decision).



#27
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Yes, that's silly. But young people often do silly things. ;)

#28
Amentep

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So you're saying I'm old?  GET OFF MY LAWN!!!! :aiee::p


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#29
bringingyouthefuture

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Another perspective, I still refuse to use Amazon completely!! lol but normally I can buy a product through the creators own website so it is a little apples to oranges.  Developers / publishers should always have their own stores, its strange that they don't - it seems like a solid infrastructure investment.  You cut out the middleman, and for the video game consumer with their awareness of needing to support companies they like, it seems like most would go directly to them to purchase.  Why doesn't PD or Obisidian sell there own games?  I mean even if it was boxed versions with USB / old school serial codes to start the game, or even just USB stick with no box and a serial code.  Is it because they are to easy to hack?  Does Epic and Steam, maybe even GOG give the companies an advantage in stopping the spread of pirated copies?  It seems unlikely.

 

Edit:

I mean I run a Hackinstosh at home, if you can hack the Mac OS onto a PC you can definitely hack a video game.


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 25 March 2019 - 10:08 AM.

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#30
mychal26

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I think it's more than just one platform vs another. The Epic store does some very fishy things such as data logging from other programs, accessing dll files, reading root certificates, in addition to perusing your browser keys. That's not even counting that it tracks your internet traffic. Why it would need to do any of these things is beyond me, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a friend of privacy and transparency. That's not to say Steam is king of privacy, but it's certainly the lesser of two evils at the moment. In this sense, it doesn't surprise me in the least that people are bombing reviews for a company that will soon have a game exclusively on the Epic store, as they'll either need to pirate or bite the bullet to play it.

 

(All of this has got me thinking though...we get Google, etc, for free as we're basically the products they're making money off of. What if that's the Epic store angle? Instead of making a higher percentage from game sales, they make additional revenue from their user usage information?)



#31
bringingyouthefuture

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Not sure about that argument - data mining these days is like breathing.  If they use a browser, go to a webpage, use social media, you get mined lol.  To nitpick about that from an online consumer perspective is pretty naive, I am no data expert or hacker but honest if a company wants to know I logon to this site a ton to read what's going on I am okay with that - I am sure Google is doing it anyway.

 

But that being said, if POE2 was an Epic store exclusive I would be like what the hell and annoyed - but if Obsidian makes a little more cash from it, I would totally be okay with it and bite the bullet.  Is the Microsoft store in China?


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 25 March 2019 - 01:36 PM.


#32
Ethics Gradient

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I think it's more than just one platform vs another. The Epic store does some very fishy things such as data logging from other programs, accessing dll files, reading root certificates, in addition to perusing your browser keys. That's not even counting that it tracks your internet traffic. Why it would need to do any of these things is beyond me, 

Almost all of that has been calmly debunked by software engineers.  

 

It's fine and well to have a healthy suspicion of what your software gathers and transmits, but much of the Epic client's behavior is consistent with boringly routine stuff.  For instance, root certs are the backbone of why HTTPS is secure.  It would twice as fishy if the Epic Game Store didn't verify their site's certificate chain all the way back to a valid root.  Why does it need to know how your browser works? Because the EGS front-end is a browser, and would really like to verify connection settings before trying to contact the outside world.  Etc...

 

If people want to take issue with the EGS launcher tracking cookies and monitoring page views, okay, sure.  But it's still doing that for the same reasons that Steam or any other webpage does.

 

If anyone is interested in a healthy rebuttal of some of these claims by Epic's VP of Engineering, check it out.


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#33
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So you're saying I'm old?


That would be like Elvis Presley calling James Dean's hairdo a greasy pompadour. ;)
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#34
xzar_monty

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I get being being disappointed.

 

Perhaps for some disappointment turns to anger.  But people act like companies have betrayed them personally with these decisions to go to the Epic storefront (or to be exclusive to a system during the console wars) in expressing their ire (and doing things like trolling the PoEII steam page which has nothing to do with the decision).

 

This is indicative of a general societal trend starting from approximately the beginning of the new millennium and increasing at a steady rate since then. The reasons are quite obviously manifold, but given that it's particularly prevalent among affluent North Americans, it probably has something to do with overly cosseted youths utterly unable to deal with disappointment. Incidentally, if one's reactions to something as insignificant as this are seriously as drastic as we've seen, it's rather unlikely that that person's adult life is going to be rosy, in terms of emotional stability or maturity. Tantrums are ok, of course, if you're two years old.

 

But now we're getting maybe a bit off topic.



#35
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I don't like the "everything was better in the old days" and "oh my - today's youth" sayings.

 

Until today every generation has the impression that the youth behaves worse than it did in their generation - and that's most likely nonsense.

 

If you know Hans Rosling you also know that the world improves constantly (of course there are potholes) - despite the constant feeling that "we're doomed". :)

 

If you don't know him please check him out. He was awesome: https://www.ted.com/...osling_talks_yo

 

Some youngsters nowadays may have a strong feeling of entitlement and a lack of tolerance for frustration. But the youth is also more involved, they re better educated, pick better decisions, are more cosmopolitan and so on. Well whatever, that's it from me about that topic. ;)


Edited by Boeroer, 26 March 2019 - 03:27 AM.

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#36
xzar_monty

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I did not make the argument that everything was better in the old days or that today's youth is somehow ruined or particularly bad. Not at all.

 

Of course I know Hans Rosling, and although there is rather a lot of good about what he writes, strictly in terms of the statistics he presents, there are also some glaring problems with what he does. For instance, he offers no convincing arguments to support his claims about the hangups in our thinking. Much of that is quite possibly true, or at least partially true, but either way, all of what he writes is on faith, which makes him look bad, given how he claims to rely on facts. Second, if you put all the positive developments he describes on one side, and the danger of climate change gone horribly wrong on the other side, it's quite obvious that the latter is a much more important factor in determining our future and renders much of the other side meaningless.

 

But yes, I would also recommend that people read Hans Rosling.

 

What this topic comes down to is what you describe at the very end of your comment: youth is both better behaved, better educated etc., than before, and the question of entitlement-induced infantilism is also there.



#37
Boeroer

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I'm quite certain that that's only the impression you get - because nowadays it's much easier for every individual to be heared than it was 30 years ago. 30 years ago, when a youngster would rant about whatever and all got self entitled - who outside his village would have known? He wouldn't have written a letter about it and send it to a newspaper who then would have spreaded the word - no way. All that overly silly stuff was filtered. But I don't believe for one second that it wasn't there. Nowadays the youngster just goes online and posts his nonsense - before he has the chance to sleep over it.  


Edited by Boeroer, 26 March 2019 - 04:19 AM.


#38
xzar_monty

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Entitlement requires certain standards to be met, and although the phenomenon did exist earlier on, it was confined to a very small minority of the population, mostly the aristocracy. One of the things that a lot of people do not understand (until they're told about it) is that many of us on these forums, for instance, have lived our entire lives in a state of luxury utterly unimaginable to nearly everyone throughout human history. We do not know of hunger, thirst, want, etc.

 

The human psyche, just as the human musculature, requires a certain amount of stress to develop properly, and in the absence of that stress, it does not grow and/or it deteriorates in a very serious way. This can produce extreme weakness both physically and psychologically.

 

Silliness has always existed, and the young have always been rash, there is no question. But the specific phenomenon I am talking about has intensified and become more common, for reasons described above. I am not saying it is anybody's fault, but it's there, nevertheless.



#39
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Is there actual data that supports those claims?

 

Because recently I read about a study that showed that baby boomers act more entiteld than millenials - which would contradict your statement.


Edited by Boeroer, 26 March 2019 - 06:06 AM.


#40
Phenomenum

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Entitlement requires certain standards to be met, and although the phenomenon did exist earlier on, it was confined to a very small minority of the population, mostly the aristocracy. One of the things that a lot of people do not understand (until they're told about it) is that many of us on these forums, for instance, have lived our entire lives in a state of luxury utterly unimaginable to nearly everyone throughout human history. We do not know of hunger, thirst, want, etc.

 

The human psyche, just as the human musculature, requires a certain amount of stress to develop properly, and in the absence of that stress, it does not grow and/or it deteriorates in a very serious way. This can produce extreme weakness both physically and psychologically.

 

Toynbee argues that civilizations are born out of more primitive societies, not as the result of racial or environmental factors, but as a response to challenges, such as hard country, new ground, blows and pressures from other civilizations, and penalization. He argues that for civilizations to be born, the challenge must be a golden mean; that excessive challenge will crush the civilization, and too little challenge will cause it to stagnate. He argues that civilizations continue to grow only when they meet one challenge only to be met by another, in a continuous cycle of "Challenge and Response". He argues that civilizations develop in different ways due to their different environments and different approaches to the challenges they face. He argues that growth is driven by "Creative Minorities": those who find solutions to the challenges, who inspire (rather than compel) others to follow their innovative lead. This is done through the "faculty of mimesis." Creative minorities find solutions to the challenges a civilization faces, while the great mass follow these solutions by imitation, solutions they otherwise would be incapable of discovering on their own.

 

https://en.wikipedia...tudy_of_History


Edited by Phenomenum, 26 March 2019 - 06:33 AM.





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