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Pure DPS Lady of pain style
Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:24 PM
And I thought human might actually work better than aumaua since I will be getting hit alot! Fighting spirit seems to be great for a front liner with sanguine plate shod in faith and low deflection front liner. At the same time he might just be on the ground half the fight!
I don't really want a high int fighter it just feels weird for rp reasons (mainly why I don't make a Barb). Crit build 2hander just seems fun. But is it equal or better than tidefall and white spire/boep?
Posted 13 March 2019 - 11:38 PM
You can't get better in terms of dps (on a two-handed low INT fighter) than giving him Tidefall. Max MIG, drop INT, boost attack speed (max DEX, Sanguine Plate, Armored Grace, Durgan Steel, Gauntlets of Swift Action).
Crits are overrated in terms of dps because they only add 50% additive damage which is not a lot if you fight with mundane weapons (which have rel. low base damage but other additive dmg bonuses). However - a crit build with Firebrand (very high base damage and additional +50% dmg on crit with Annihilation) can lead to very high numbers per hit. You need good INT though (doesn't have to be maxed). Or you take Hours of St. Rumbalt. It will not do the same dps as Tidefall, but the prone on crit is very helpful. But for this also high INT is benefical.
Most builds in the build list are up to date - because nothing has changed concerning the usefulness. A build from 2.x will most likely be as viable for 3.x as a build from 3.x because mechanically not much changed between 2.x - 3.x.
So - 2 hander, high MIG, low INT: go Tidefall. There's nothing better in terms of dps.
Edited by Boeroer, 13 March 2019 - 11:39 PM.
Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:04 AM
Is it just too unreliable?
Posted 14 March 2019 - 12:11 PM
1 MIG difference is like nothing...
Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:02 PM
But of course you know infinitely more about the game so I will take your advice.
Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:36 PM
Hey, when moderator approve my build check it out when it will be shown in class build and try it Difference is you want Two-handed weapon and i used dual. It will be named DPS Monk
Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:20 PM
I remember reading an old Post of yours where you said hours of St rum sword was your favorite. Is it really that inferior to tidefall? I know the low int will make prones pointless but with higher crit multipliers and even short prone times it seems like it could rival tidefall.
But of course you know infinitely more about the game so I will take your advice.
I liked Rumbalt because it is great fun to use it on a Barb against mobs. Accurate Carnage and some levels (Carnage gains +1 ACC per char level so at lvl 6 you already have higher ACC with Carnage than with the initial attack) and you can prone common mobs easily. Just imagine all those guys falling over all the time.
But in terms of dps it's strictly inferior. Nearly everything is though. Especially with low INT and high MIG Tidefall is unmatched in the 2-hander department when it comes to dps. That's because Wounding is multiplicative (as all lashes), scales with MIG and is raw.
For Rumbalt you want high PER and high INT.
Also keep in mind that crit damage is only additive while lashes are multiplicative damage modifiers. Every dmg bonus you have (Two Handed Style, superb, MIG, Savage Attack, crit) will get multiplied by the lash. The more you stack the higher the gap betwee Rumbalt and Tidefall. Rumbalt's Annihilation boosts crit damage from 8.5 to 17. And that's it. Tidefall's wounding takes a normal crit (+8.5 dmg) and multiplies it with 0.25% (at 10 INT) and thus adds ~2 raw dmg. So the crit difference alone is only 17 vs. 10.5 at 10 MIG. Now add all the other dmg bonuses:
17 (base dmg great sword) * (1 [base dmg itself] + 1 [crit bonus] + 0.24 [MIG 18] + 0.15 [2HStyle] + 0.45[superb] ) = ~48 vs. 0 DR
17 (base dmg great sword) * (1 [base dmg itself] + 0.5 [crit bonus] + 0.24 [MIG 18] + 0.15 [2HStyle] + 0.45[superb] ) * (1.31 [wounding scaled with MIG]) = ~52 vs. 0 DR
So even on a crit Rumbalt does less dmg. Now keep in mind that it's vs. 0 DR and that you don't crit all the time and the gap widens and widens.
Of course Rumbalt can have more impact on your overall performance with the right build - no question. You prone on crit which lowers defenses which leads to more crits and so on. All I'm saying is that Tidefall is generally better at doing damage. Not in all cases but most of the time. And it drains endurance which can mean more sturdyness - while knocking the enemy prone can also mean better survivability. It's not easy to make a 1:1 comparison that is somewhat meaningful. Highly depends on your char and party. Do you have lots of CC? Maybe you don't need prone on crit then but more dmg. Those things...
Also don't forget that you'd have to enchant Rumbalt with precious Drgon Eyes to make it even superb - while Tidefall already comes superb right from the shelf (which is a pile of dirt ).
With a low INT high MIG char I would go for Tidefall. Except a Priest of Berath who would also get Tidefall despite high INT (some DoT shenanigans there with Cleansing Flame - and the potential for 40+ MIG which boosts Tidefall's dmg per hit through the roof).
With a high ACC (PER) high INT char I would pick Rumbalt.
With a Barb I would pick Firebrand nowadays (or Rumbalt if Belt of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer and Forgemaster Gloves are occupied by somebody else or if I needed more CC - dpends on party composition).
But hey - nobody stops you from trying out both! Rumbalt comes with Accurate III so you can test the proning right away compared to the dmg of Tidefall. You just keep as main weapon what you like better. My preferences change over time as well.
Edited by Boeroer, 14 March 2019 - 11:26 PM.
Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:05 AM
I wasn’t even optimised to use Tidefall since I had max INT (as well as max MIG).
Anecdotally from weapons I was using, Tidefall was doing around 60-70 damage per hit (not even including the 25% wounding damage). Crits took that to 80-90 range. Firebrand was doing more damage, especially as I also had Scion of Flame, at around 80+ on normal hits and well over 100 on crits.
But factoring in Tidefall’s accuracy vs Firebrand, and the draining + wounding effects, it’s just an incredibly good weapon, especially when you consider how early / easily you can get it.
Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:54 AM
Yes, Firebrand does more dmg on hit most of the time because it has a lot more base dmg (25 compared to 17 - and thus all dmg mods have a large impact if you look at the flat numbers) - but it also can't be enchanted with quality (but has ACC +4 and dmg +45% so that ok), a lash (so lacks multiplicative dmg boost) and not with Durgan Steel (no increased crit dmg, no increased speed).
You can work around that with a Barb who has Blood Thirst (or a Cipher with Time Siphon or a Wizard with Alacrity). In case of Barb the high dmg per hit leads to easy kills on squishies which then lets you trigger Bloodlust and skips recovery (so speed enchantments don't matter much). And Tidefall's wounding actually won't trigger Blood thirst if it kills. Anotehr reason for me to not use it aon a Barb (even though draining with Cranage is great as well).
But usually a fully enchanted Tidefall is doing better dps. Even Rumbalt can reach Firebrand's dps once fully enchanted on non-Barbs - just because of the higher speed and ACC.
But Firebrand is just royally good right from the start and looks so fricking awesome. Not only that, but its hits also make that nice swooshing sound as if you'd swing around a burning branch. Awesome... In the late game it rarely is the best option - but I tend to stick to it out of loyalty.
Posted 15 March 2019 - 03:41 PM
I won't even get knockdowns till late. I too like firebrand but I'm saving it for a fire godlike bleak walker build.
Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:48 AM
Don't use him as a nuker if you have enough other party members who can fill that role. He's not that well suited for that role anyway. Use him to spread his awesome CC/debuff stuff once his ACC got buffed up. Then let the others do their damage thing. Another often overlooked beauty is Misama of Dull-Mindedness. Its stat-lowering effect also lowers enemies defenses a lot (e.g. -6 INT and -6 RES lead to -6 Deflection and -24! Will) but that stacks with stuff from CC effects (blind etc.) which leads to a ton of crits from your damage dealers. Just look at Shining Beacon: its duration will get a boost from INT of course, but also a crit will give it +50%. It targets Will! So a great way to deal damage is: Durance casts Devotions for the Faithful (+MIG, +20 ACC) and Inspiring Radiance (+10 ACC), Aloth casts Miasma (with +30 ACC, causes -24 Will), Durance casts Shining Beacon with the equivalent of +54 ACC (+30 ACC, -24 Will) and will most likely crit with it, giving it a superlong duration. With DoT spells like Shining Beacon a crit means +50% duratiuon which is basically a 50% multiplicative damage boost (compared to "normal" crits on non-DoTs which only do 50% additive).
The classes with the least impact after the early/mid game usually are fighters and rogues. But for example a Fighter paired with a "Marking" Paladin can be an awesome single-target-CC/dps-guy. You can even manage to knockdown dragons reliably while your other party members finish him off.
Kana is an absolute dps beast once you reach lvl 9 and pick Dragon Thrashed as the one and only chant. But even in early levels he can be incredibly powerful if you utilize the Phantom and White Worms. White Worms, used at chokepoints where you piled up dead bodies already is game breakingly good- Just make sure you disaböle the gib option in the game meanu (gibbed bodies don't work). And don't reload because it will remove dead bodies. As long as you can lure "fresh" enemies to a pile of already dead enemies you can one-shot them all with Kana (with a bit of a "trap" setup). Very useful in Raedric's Hold.
Edited by Boeroer, 16 March 2019 - 01:51 AM.
Posted 16 March 2019 - 03:12 PM
Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:59 AM
Edited by Bleyas, 17 March 2019 - 04:18 AM.
Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:57 AM
The "problem" with rogue and fighter is that they are pretty limited to single target damage. Naturally a monk can outperform them because he can spam stuff like Torment's Reach (which is a very powerful ability). But he's also better as single target damage dealer than the fighter and as sturdy - while he's a lot more sturdy than the rogue.
Also let's not forget the Druid who has the highest single target melee dmg potential in the game (Cat or Boar form + Avenging Storm) while he also can cast the good stuff. But only for a limited amount of time. Still pretty awesome to see a shifted Cat Druid pawing around with his crazy high base damage claws (base dmg scales with level), awesome attack speed, the high lashes and the additional lightning dmg per attack.
If you look at overall melee dmg potential (AoE and single target combined) the monk always wins in my book. Or a Barb with Heart of Fury - depends on the build of course. MonkÄs also the most versatile melee guy (or even ranged). Check out stuff like Monksterlasher, Anvil or Witch Doctor who all do much better for me than any rogue I ever build. But there are nice rogue builds as well, no doubt. I like best a Riposte Rogue with Badgradr's Barricade + Godansthunyr which is so much fun and also a great mix between offense and defense.
But this is from the perpective of PotD difficulty where you will face a lot more enemies which means AoE damage becomes more important.
Rogues have one big advantage: they start really strong on the dps-side and that can give you the impression that they are very powerful. and also the fun that keeps you playing. Which is good. But their "power curve" is rather flat (like fighters' as well) while other classes' curves go up more steeply (casters, Monk, Barb etc.) due to certain abilites. Rogue gets Sneak Attack right from the start and then there isn't a real gamechanger until Deathblows maybe. While Monks get Torment's Reach, Turning Wheel, more edurance for their wounds (wound threshold stays the same, endurance raises a lot), Barbs get Blood Thirst and Heart of Fury, Casters accumulate a ton of spell uses, even Paladins get Sacred Immolation... and so on.
Whatever - the difference is not that big.
Another advantage of Fighter is that he's very low on micro (for a Pillars class) and maintenance-free sort of. While a Monk needs a TON of micro to be really good and the rogue likes to be babysitted a lot.
If rogues and fighters fall off so hard, who would you say is the best DPS to main then?
Huh?`Where did I say that?
They are a bit behind, but not a lot. But it also depends on your preferences and your way to play. If you build a party around a rogue as main damage dealer he can do amazing things. I just think the are a bit limited - same as the fighter. But with a fighter you can also do nice stuff if you use him properly (and I don't mean as tank). I just think that generally both classes don't add as much to a party as other classes can. But they are totally fine
Where did I say that "best DPS to main"? Can't remember that. Was it recently?
I gave advice for fighter because you said "I'm trying to figure out the best pure DPS 2handed figher build". And since I don't like to persuade forum members into playing something that I like best (but rather give advice for the class they have in mind) I talked about fighter mainly. Sorry if you also wanted to hear about other classes.
Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:18 PM
I often am an altaholic till I find my perfect fit for a class. I don't mind high micro though it can be a pain on console. Just looking for something that has raw power through most of the game that doesn't require end game builds.
Posted 18 March 2019 - 03:05 AM
For the rawest power right of the bat you should then utilize Firebrand. You can get the Belt of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer pretty early and the gloves will follow soon (6 summonings of Firebrand per rest). There's nothing like it that early in the game. You can use it with a Monk, a Rogue, a Barbarian, a Fighter, a Cipher...
Highest dmg against single targets per swing would be with Rogue. Most fun I have with Firebrand though is with Barbarian (see "Cauterizer" build in the pinned build list). Rogue feels much stronger on lower difficulites (because less enemies).
Rogue can also be great with Tidefall. Since he usually deals a lot of dmg per swing he will also heal very well with the draining from Tidefall. That makes him a bit sturdier. High MIG, not high INT, Veteran's Recovery and not too thin mail and you can have a rel. sturdy Rogue who does great damage per swing. Just don't try to tank with him.
I once played one who used Tidefall and also used Backstab. I just waited with high stealth in the front line (right besides the tank) and struck when they cam near. Then used Shadowing Beyond and the Cape of the Master Mystic to become invisible and repeat a Backstab when my endurance was low. You can't get hit when invisible and the high dmg bonus from Backstab combined wit the Draining from Tidefall heals you back up a bit while most likely killing the backstabbed enemy. Stuff like that.
Backstabbing also works with Firebrand (which leads to crazy numbers) - but only from invisibility since the summoning will break stealth.
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