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So... the loot kinda sucks


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#121
Verde

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The best heavy shield in PoE1 was obatained in one of the very first quests. And it was an ugly barn door.

Edited by Verde, 16 March 2019 - 09:18 AM.


#122
Boeroer

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Huh? I disagree. Larder Door is one of the worst unique shields in the game. :) The implementation of bashing shields was pretty terrible in PoE and lead to dropping auto-dps compared to a normal shield.

I have to admit tough that large shields are an excellent example to illustrate PoE's rather unintersting loot in certain item groups compared to Deadfire's.

I'm sure one can also find examples for the opposite. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 16 March 2019 - 09:59 AM.


#123
Verde

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Huh? I disagree. Larder Door is one of the worst unique shields in the game. :) The implementation of bashing shields was pretty terrible in PoE and lead to dropping auto-dps compared to a normal shield.

I have to admit tough that large shields are an excellent example to illustrate PoE's rather unintersting loot in certain item groups compared to Deadfire's.

I'm sure one can also find examples for the opposite. ;)

Uhh that was th point lol. How was it one of the worst? For a tank I'm not concerned with DPS at all.

Edited by Verde, 16 March 2019 - 10:18 AM.

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#124
RedKnight

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Only spea...[cut]

Utter nonsense! Every single sentence you wrote, other than recognizing the name of that shielf. Not going to even bother debunking that piece of factually incorrect logically fallcious debauchery this time around. And no, PoE1 has much better loot. Billion times better in fact!
 

There aren't hundreds of RPGs in existence. If you can get the number up to one hundred, great. But at that point you aren't even halfway there, going by the most charitable definition possible.

Nonsense! I've been playing RPGs even before they appeared on computers. And even if you don't count all those, I can count at least a 100 computer roleplaying games that I played and finished, not to mention those that I played only half way through. Hell, just my list of favorite video game RPGs counts at least 50 of them and by my calculation there were at least 3 times as many that I didn't like as much. Here is that list in no particular order just from my memory(not even going to be counting the expansions btw - even though some expansions I played are actually seperate games. And since this is from my memory, I probably missed a few as well).
1. Baldur's Gate
2. Baldur's Gate 2
3. Icewind Dale
4. Icewind Dale 2
5. Planescape Torment
6. Pillars of Eternity
7. Pillars of Eternity 2
8. Torment: Tides of Numenera
9. Wasteland
10. Wasteland 2
11. Vampire the Masquarade
12. Vampite the Masquarade: Bloodlines
13. Ultima 3
14. Ultima 4
15. Ultima 5
16. Ultima 6
17. Ultima 7
18. Ultima 9
19. Fallout
20. Fallout 2
21. Wizardry 6
22. Wizardry 7
23. Wizardry 8
24. Might and Magic 3
25. Might and Magic 4
26. Might and Magic 5
27. Might and Magic 6
28. Might and Magic 7
29. Might and Magic X
30. TES II: Daggerfall
31: TES III: Morrowind (I don't like Oblivion and Skyrim)
32. Kotor
33. Kotor 2
34. Neverwinter Nights
35. Neverwinter Nights 2
36. Final Fantasy 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 and 12. (You can count all those as 1 game) :)
37. Chrono Trigger
38. Chrono Cross
39. Arcanum
40. Ultima: Savage Empire
41. World of Warcraft
42. LotR Online
43. Eye of Beholder
44. Eye of Beholder 2
45. Eye of Beholder 3
46. Divine Divinity
45. Divinity: Original Sin 2 (played the first one, didn't like it as much)
46. Dungeon Hack
47. Ultima Underwold (didn't like the second one so much)
48. Kingdom Come
49. Betreyal at Krondor
50. Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession
51. Diablo series
52. Titan Quest
53. Dungeon Siege series
54. Thunderscape
55. Shadowrun: Dragonfall (I played all, but only liked Dragonfall)
...
Look, I can go on for hours.

Now, you may argue that some of these are not really RPGs, but I don't care if you don't consider Diablo or Final Fantasy or WOW an RPG. All of them have loot, numbers and RPG system, which is the only thing relevant for this discussion. Rememeber, I said that I played hundreds of RPGs in the context of loot. Hell, I know there are at least 20 (maybe even 30 or more) MMORPGs I played quite extensively.

Edited by RedKnight, 16 March 2019 - 11:00 AM.


#125
bringingyouthefuture

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I would point out that loot in 90s RPGs was pretty atrocious compared to POE1 or POE2.  Even looking back to FF1 the loot was even more specialized for characters.  Maybe it was FF3 that really started to open up loot, but I remember JRPGs always put more emphasis on it than even the D&D games.  So its funny to me that you mention loot messing up the genre, not sure that is ultimately a correct look back at RPGs.  Could also be one of the reasons I hate a superfluous of magic nick-knacks, too and why I think POE2 is pretty innovative and forward thinking when it comes to loot.  They did a great job making magic weapons fun, but not the point of the game.

 

I would also mention it is pretty easy to figure out the magic arms in POE2 ... I mean come on it isn't that esoteric.  I mean a superb weapons that gives you an added bonus ... that speaks pretty plain to me.


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 16 March 2019 - 12:41 PM.


#126
Boeroer

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Utter nonsense! Every single sentence you wrote, other than recognizing the name of that shielf. Not going to even bother debunking that piece of factually incorrect logically fallcious debauchery this time around.

If you would be so kind to point out my mistakes? That would help to prove your point. If you cannot I must assume you are just writing utter nonsense yourself. I'm sure people can follow my reasoning even if they don't agree and draw different conclusions. Maybe you can try to get engaged in proper reasoning and less ranting as well?

At least I presented you several alternatives to Cadhu Scalth which are equally useful (for example Bronlar's Phalanx allows you to get a higher Deflection bonus without any skill), I showed how that shield is still useful even without investment in skills because it has certain starting values even without any skill investment and I also showed that PoE had a worse collection of large shields in comparison. I could compare all weapon groups from PoE to Deadfire if you wish. But I fear that all that work will be in vain if if doesn't lead to the outcome you're wishing for. That you would just write "utter nonsense" again despite the work I would have put into. And what'sthe point then? I mean I know maybe ~90% of loot from both games out of my head so I'm pretty sure my judgement of the loot in both games stands on a solid foundation of knowledge - while yours seems to be based on emotions and not not much else.

Several points you tried to make I could falsify with actual examples - while I agreed on other points you made. So you can't claim I oppose everything you say indifferently.

But you present... not much really besides rather pointless rambling atm.
 

And no, PoE1 has much better loot. Billion times better in fact!

Using the words "Billion times better" and "in fact" in the same statement about loot in a computer game doesn't give the impression of being reasonable. Also here you present not one current example that may illustrate what exactly you mean. Which loot in PoE (which was pretty balanced as well) could possibly be a billion times better? Or even a hundret times or ten times? I can't think of any.
 
I think we at least try to explain what we mean by giving some examples. Maybe you can also invest a bit more effort and come up with a few actual examples of loot from PoE and Deadfire that shows why you think PoE's is a billion times better. 
 

42. LotR Online
43. Eye of Beholder
44. Eye of Beholder 2
45. Eye of Beholder 3
46. Divine Divinity
45. Divinity: Original Sin 2 (played the first one, didn't like it as much)
46. Dungeon Hack

Small copy & paste error I presume that doesn't work in your favor (it's actually 57). You can use the numbered list button with less hassle by the way. Might spare you some work 'cause you don't have to time the numbers yourself.
Because you were talking about hundreds of RPGs you played I thought you might want to elaborate on that list which doesn't seem to be quite complete yet...? ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 16 March 2019 - 02:03 PM.

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#127
giftmefood

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I think you both are arguing about a redundant thing. Loot is not the problem. Encounter design is as I've said previously. 

 

"The equipment in this game is so well-balanced that everything just feels samey. There's no true stand-out equipment that really amazes you. Now it's up to people to perceive whether if this is a good thing or not. 

For me, I prefer the balanced route while I do miss the 1.0 patch days where some equipment were hilariously broken and fun. Pre-nerfed frostseeker, wahai poraga, those pre nerfed on crit gear effects, those pre nerfed gear that gave huge crit chance... That was really fun but then the game was easy enough as is. 

I wish Obsidian went the more funner route of balancing. Rather than nerf the items, they should have made the encounters harder. That would have been the ideal but that route would have cost them alot more resources and time which they couldn't afford or aren't willing to pay for. I mean they are a business afterall so profit comes first. 

That said OP, I'm pretty sure there's a mod on nexus where the game is played at patch pre 1.1. You could get that and have a lot of fun with the really good items. But the bad thing is it will be very easy. Because even now with the nerfed items, the game is still pissy easy on potd."


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#128
RedKnight

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If you would be so kind to point out my mistakes? That would help to prove your poin...[cut].

Yeah, I am not going waste my time on a person who has already demonstrated numerous times complete intellectual dishonesty.

I mean lol... just look at the padantic crap you are grasping at in your last post, so you can kindly piss off.
 

I would point out that loot in 90s RPGs was pretty atrocious compared to POE1 or POE2.

I'm very simple to please when it comes to loot. As long as the numbers keep going up and I keep getting better and better loot every few hours, I am happy. PoE2 fails at that miserably, since I was getting better and better loot only 1/3 of the game. Once I reached max level, I only managed to find an occasional item here and there that improved my character. Considering that I still had over 100 hours of content to burn through, what I got was very disappointing. And again, that might just be the pacing issue and perhaps slowing down the leveling could maybe make for a more enjoyable experience. Still, the fact that instead of getting +10 strength or 200% damage or some crazy **** like that, Sawyer came up with "if you sacrifice your party memeber, you'll get 20% chance to score a crit" or whatever... yeah... I just don't like that approach very much. Sorry, but I would rather take a simple +1, +2, +3, with an occoasional 5-6 burn, acid or magic damage from Dungeon's and Dragons any time of the day than this - even if PoE2 items are more powerful according to some Excel sheet. Just a personal preference.

Edited by RedKnight, 16 March 2019 - 05:23 PM.


#129
bringingyouthefuture

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In all fairness, I respect your opinion, but am sad you won't call it booty  :fdevil:  ... but honest a lot of people see POE2 and critique compared to D&D.  I also respect Boeroer's opinion and a lot of others' opinions, and knowledge of the game a lot.  I think way back when playing POE, I stole a build for a Rogue off the forums that they kept discussing - before I even started posting on the forum.  It changed everything and opened my eyes a lot - I mean I already liked POE but it really blew my mind what everyone was doing with weapons and builds and such, never saw anything like it and to say the least it was humbling.  It took a lot of reading the game descriptions and weapons descriptions, ability descriptions and etc but I finally in POE2 started to get a better understanding ... I mostly refuse to read build strategies, walkthroughs and such, because I like to figure them out for myself.  You seem the same with some of your earlier comments when it comes to exploring the game - plus the fact you like RPGs says a lot.  HAHA pretty good discussion, but I think POE2 is pretty unique in its approach and of course they can improve and will, but lets make the right improvements.  Sure make it so there is 3-4 unique's for everyone weapon fine I don't think it needs it but many people do.  Sure let's make a dagger a little more general in its usage, but not to the point where it is totally overpowered and everyone uses that same weapon for every build.  Heck maybe even lets bring crafting back from POE (never gonna happen :(  But let's not take away what truly makes the game standout from other RPGs, that would just be criminal, let's make it so the loot keeps its unique coolness.

 

That's my presidential political speech ...

 

Edit:  I think the trick is to stack the 20 percent crit if you can so it becomes like 45 percent, now we are talking (I am not sure that is possible might be talking too soon again)


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 16 March 2019 - 09:42 PM.


#130
Amentep

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I asked that users treat one another with respect. This has not happened and so this thread is closed .
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