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Which did you enjoy more, Poe or Poe2?


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#41
Daidre

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I enjoyed all Obsidian writing until Deadfire happened. Especially in KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol. P:K is not even close to it and never will be. My love to this game is for combat, dungeon crawling and amazing character building that comes with D&D derivative system. And I really, really love D&D.

 

I do not replay RPGs for hundreds of hours to enjoy their questionable literature quality, I barely pay attention to it when things like Xoti are not pushed into my face.

 

My problem with Deadfire that she and Teheku are pushed into my face (could replace then with mercs) and there is so much talking and info-damping for every little adventure/combat that replay is not attractive. But first run was disappointing too because main plot and companion quests are so short. And, since it was early version, lot of quests were hellishly bugged and end boss never appeared.


Edited by Daidre, 12 March 2019 - 07:46 AM.


#42
Rooksx

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The party AI in Deadfire (albeit with the Custom AI conditions mod) makes it very hard to go back to PoE. My last party in PoE was quite micro-heavy, which led to tedium. Being able to automate the activation of basic buffs and other stuff makes a huge difference to me.

#43
xzar_monty

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I do not replay RPGs for hundreds of hours to enjoy their questionable literature quality, I barely pay attention to it when things like Xoti are not pushed into my face.

 

Btw, here's something that I think is genuinely interesting (and occasionally worrying, but not in this instance), from a psychological point of view. It goes like this:

 

The foulest and most abusive language, that which centers around feelings of disgust and hatred, along with fantasies of destruction and ruination, is almost without exception directed at female NPCs. Xoti, Grieving Mother, Aerie, etc. This forum is as good an example as any other forum.


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#44
xzar_monty

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First, Deadfire. Second, I always feel like I'm communicating with a sentient being from the parallel dimension whenever someone puts Kingmaker's writing over, well, anything of Obsidian's (or Troika's, Bioware's and even that janitor's who writes for Bethesda). Because...how?  :shrugz: It is blandly adequate at its best and at its worst (looking at you, Ophelia and Ragnarok) it's like written by someone who never actually bothered to read anything in the first place. 

 

Yep. The writing in Kingmaker is utterly terrible.

 

Here's an interesting paradox that has been extensively discussed in the relevant literature (with rather few definite conclusions, for obvious reasons).

 

1) Questions of taste are inherently subjective. I.e. there are no rights or wrongs.

2) But then there are cases where this simpy isn't true if you have like any sense whatsoever. Suppose that someone genuinely values Kenny G over John Coltrane. Ed Wood over Stanley Kubrick. Britney Spears over Ella Fitzgerald (as a singer). James Patterson over Edgar Allan Poe. Andy Warhol over Leonardo da Vinci. It'd be extremely difficult to take that person seriously, wouldn't it?



#45
Wormerine

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Ha! Actually, now when you mention it White March is my favourite piece of content in the whole PoE frenchise so far. Pacing is excellent, combat is satisfying by being challenging but not frustrating. It provides just enough freedom while still providing strong narrative with revelation that is foreshadowed throughout the adventure. I think the balance of dark themes, adventure and humor is perfect - something that wasn't achieved in neither of base games.

Durgans battery is an excellent dungeon, and Ondra's sanctum was brilliant. Deadfire topped it in term of gameplay complexity, but I thought it is still the most interesting location in the series.
I wouldn't call a fight every few feet excellent pacing ;)

I remember WM being dense but never boring. While some areas were packed with combat areas for the most part they were different from each other (some parts of Durgan Battery had a bit too many similar mobs, especially the lowest level). Outside areas like (Longwatch Falls, Russetwood, Whitestone Hollow) are the best outside areas in the series, with bunch of unique encounters, some story content. I liked that apprach more over filler content of PoE1 and one fight per map content of Deadfire. 


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#46
xzar_monty

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Ha, I just went through some of the White March yesterday and thought that bloody heck, at least half of these battles should have been dropped. They were just filler. Luckily, Obsidian did just that in Deadfire.


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#47
MountainTiger

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Deadfire in my opinion has a really lot of improvements over PoE1 and I liked both a lot.

But if speaking about enjoyment... I would answer that subjectively I enjoyed PoE1 more back then, than Deadfire now.
At the same time I don't really know if this would hold true, if I played PoE1 after Deadfire.

P.S. If I tried to pinpoint what exactly I liked more about PoE1... it would probably be:
- longer critical path
- less fanatical Pallegina
- (might be wrong here but had a sensation that) companions had deeper writing about them and more dialogue options
- grimer/darker atmosphere. And gods being rather mysterios, without that incompetent vibe
- stronger crowd-control and debuffing
- enemies having more crowd control and nasty stuff themselves (shades, cean gwlas, druids, those monks...)
- enemies mostly relying on their abilities/defenses and less on inflated health pools

 

The gameplay notes here are right on for me. Deadfire's system changes push combat in a direction I find boring in comparison to POE 1.


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#48
Daidre

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 Yep. The writing in Kingmaker is utterly terrible.

 

Hey, it is matter of taste.

 

For me Deadfire is like special kind of torture - tons of boring and completely useless info about characters/setting written in purple prose and voiced with yet another bad accent. Every NPC talks x3 more than he should with zero actual impact on story or gameplay. And there is not enough dungeons, fun combat and C&C to suffer it for. 

 

I would be more forgiving if it was first game but after NWN 2: Mask of Betrayer and even more recent White March it is just embarrassing.

 

I hope Microsoft will hire this people good editor who will cut all "high philosophy beyond understanding of weak minds" out of texts so I'll have usual RPG routine where every word counts and matters. Or will kick out half of them and hires game designers so game was not turning into visual novel for hours of time.

 

So, maybe my tastes is horrible, but I prefer texts with actual info in them and not detrimental to game pacing in their quantity. I read high literature when I want high literature and no attempts for it from yesterday students and twitter stars who have more brilliant ideas and political opinions than common sense. 


Edited by Daidre, 12 March 2019 - 09:13 AM.


#49
Verde

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Ha, I just went through some of the White March yesterday and thought that bloody heck, at least half of these battles should have been dropped. They were just filler. Luckily, Obsidian did just that in Deadfire.


Yep. Filler plagued most of PoE1 and the DLCs. Deadfire did a much better job here.

Edited by Verde, 12 March 2019 - 09:20 AM.


#50
xzar_monty

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 Yep. The writing in Kingmaker is utterly terrible.

 

So, maybe my tastes is horrible, but I prefer texts with actual info in them and not detrimental to game pacing in their quantity. I read high literature when I want high literature and no attempts for it from yesterday students and twitter stars who have more brilliant ideas and political opinions than common sense. 

 

 

Yo. To the extent that you had an argument, you just ruined it with this last piece. Like: #1 you don't know these are "yesterday students", whatever that means, #2 you don't know these are twitter stars (they almost certainly aren't, even if such people exist in the first place), #3 you have no idea about their political opinions (which certainly aren't apparent in the game), #4 the game does not allow one to make a judgement on their common sense.

 

You kinda tried to make it look as if you're commenting on the Obsidian crew, but in fact you were only talking about your own unbased opinions and biases. Which is kinda poor. I'm always up for a good discussion, but that didn't really qualify as an argument or even a properly considered opinion.


Edited by xzar_monty, 12 March 2019 - 09:34 AM.

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#51
bringingyouthefuture

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One thing now that I think about it some more, the boss fights in POE1 were much better and more interesting, requiring various tactics - but in general, most encounters in POE1 in my second play through were pretty easy.  I've played parts of POE2 over and over again, and the fights remain challenging.  I never felt like either game had many useless battles, but I enjoy the combat - if I'm not frustrated than I'm not having fun lol.

 

I would argue too that D&D combat works better in its original form, turn-based.  I never really liked D&D combat with RtWP.  You really lose out in being able to maximize your feats, spells, etc.  I am glad POE1/2 evolved it somewhat to work with RtWP better - one of the things that makes combat great in POE games.  PK perfect example - I never use combat feats in that game because they are so bugged, and positioning with those huge characters is terrible.  Your better off just maximizing your AC and taking the passives for boosts.  If it was turn-based though I could see building a character around certain feats.  That could just be my play style though.


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 12 March 2019 - 09:51 AM.


#52
thelee

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One thing now that I think about it some more, the boss fights in POE1 were much better and more interesting, requiring various tactics -

 

Seriously - what boss fights? When Tyranny came along and actually had technical aspects boss fights (e.g. the enemy is signaling that they're about to use some big ability, run away!) it blew my mind since I had gotten so used to the IWD-style combat of PoE1 where "big encounters" are just normal encounters with more stats. Maybe the dragons, but once you've fought one dragon, you've fought them all essentially. Even Thaos the only thing "special" about him is the ability to spam cleansing flame and crowns for the faithful, and if you've fought broodmothers that isn't that special anyway.

 

if anything i wish there were more big fights in Deadfire like in Tyranny or like the small sample we got in the BB with engwithan saints and titan (having to deal with grabs, heavy kicks [titan] or the positional aspects of fighting saints (their frost aoe, seals of pain)); honestly was a bit disappointed that the fights/dungeon of Poko Kohara was the exception, not the norm.


Edited by thelee, 12 March 2019 - 09:53 AM.

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#53
Daidre

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You kinda tried to make it look as if you're commenting on the Obsidian crew, but in fact you were only talking about your own unbased opinions and biases.

 

Yes, I am horribly biased against people who wrote Xoti and Tekehu and then posted on twitter how proud they are of their work.

 

Even more biased against people who decided to put biggest parts of game plot on picture slides with wordy descriptions and wrote this descriptions.



#54
CarrO

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PoE2: Deadfire is better in every single way except dungeon quality / amount.

 

And I strongly dislike the unlimited rests mechanic. What's the point of wounds if you can just rest infinitely many times between fights. 

 

Apart from that, I enjoyed Deadfire more overall. And the full voice-acting is the best investment ever. So so so so so ****ing good I can't go back to reading simulators now.

 

 



#55
Boeroer

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So, obviously my taste is horrible.


Fixed it for you. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 12 March 2019 - 10:06 AM.

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#56
bringingyouthefuture

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One thing now that I think about it some more, the boss fights in POE1 were much better and more interesting, requiring various tactics -

 

Seriously - what boss fights? When Tyranny came along and actually had technical aspects boss fights (e.g. the enemy is signaling that they're about to use some big ability, run away!) it blew my mind since I had gotten so used to the IWD-style combat of PoE1 where "big encounters" are just normal encounters with more stats. Maybe the dragons, but once you've fought one dragon, you've fought them all essentially. Even Thaos the only thing "special" about him is the ability to spam cleansing flame and crowns for the faithful, and if you've fought broodmothers that isn't that special anyway.

 

if anything i wish there were more big fights in Deadfire like in Tyranny or like the small sample we got in the BB with engwithan saints and titan (having to deal with grabs, heavy kicks [titan] or the positional aspects of fighting saints (their frost aoe, seals of pain)); honestly was a bit disappointed that the fights/dungeon of Poko Kohara was the exception, not the norm.

 

 

I was thinking about the Dragon's mostly ... each one had its particular debuff if I am remembering correctly.  Thaos was interesting too because there was a few spells that made the fight so much easier :)  If you had the right combo of spells and melee attacks in POE1, you could pretty much breeze through them, but it took some testing.  Plus the Concelhaut in POE1 was a challenge, and even some of the first battles with say Raederic were pretty tactics heavy for me.  It's as people say buffing and debuffing meant a lot more in POE.

 

One of the things that bugs me most about the bosses in POE2 is they are always in the center of the game board and they just spin around (I haven't played Seeker, Slayer, Survivor yet), BoW the bosses were more interesting but I used the same tactics on the Dragon as I did the Beast of Winter to win ... which is cool but not as cool as the Kraken in POE1, or those giant faceless things :) There was something satisfying about killing those things with one shot from a hammer ...

 

And don't get me wrong I still find the average combat in POE2 way better, but honest I think that main fights in POE1 had a lot more going for them.

 

EDIT:  And I agree about the fights in POE2, but I would consider all the fights you mentioned as normal fights. not boss fights - except maybe the Titan, that was a good one :)


Edited by bringingyouthefuture, 12 March 2019 - 10:14 AM.


#57
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I hope Microsoft will hire this people good editor who will cut all "high philosophy beyond understanding of weak minds" out of texts


I hope not. 'Cause that would mean all those weak minds will come here and post weak stuff. Ugh...
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#58
Daidre

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Fixed it for you.

 

 

I am playing Might and Magic 6 now and enjoy it more then anything in Deadfire ever (Was desperately trying to play DLC I payed for week ago but dropped it again).

You cant even imagine how horrible my RPG tastes are.  



#59
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Mighty horrible?

#60
xzar_monty

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PoE2: Deadfire is better in every single way except dungeon quality / amount.

 

 

I think the amount at least was a very conscious decision, given how a dungeon crawl has pretty much become a cliche of the genre. I for one definitely enjoyed the fact that there was no biggie of a dungeon in the game (unless the last DLC contains one -- I haven't visited that area yet).

 

As for the quality, I'm not too sure. I very much enjoyed the Undercity, because some of the encounters there were nicely planned. There's one where you initially come across a set of enemies and then, some time later, additional enemies surface (literally) and attack you. I thought that was a brilliant move and required some off-the-cuff readjustment of my strategy.

 

Od Nua was a lovely idea in PoE, and some of it was really good, but quite frankly there were a couple of levels where you noticed the developers had run out of ideas and just had to come up with something (the one with the spiky floor room, the one with the confusion-inducing critters, at least).






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