Firing from high ground...doesn't work?

[Rooksx]

So on the Torkar fight, I led my party up a nearby ramp onto a nearby platform. This worked well in preventing me from being overwhelmed by blocking the ramp. It worked less well in that I was unable to fire, throw grenades, cast spells or do anything to the mobs on the ground without moving down the ramp, which I obviously couldn't do. Meanwhile all those sharpshooters on the ground were able to cheerfully fire up at my party on the platform. How does that make sense? This reminds me of that really annoying bit in Longwatch Falls White March where the fish-people fire down at you from an elevated position, but you can't fire back from where you are.

[thelee]

So on the Torkar fight, I led my party up a nearby ramp onto a nearby platform. This worked well in preventing me from being overwhelmed by blocking the ramp. It worked less well in that I was unable to fire, throw grenades, cast spells or do anything to the mobs on the ground without moving down the ramp, which I obviously couldn't do. Meanwhile all those sharpshooters on the ground were able to cheerfully fire up at my party on the platform. How does that make sense? This reminds me of that really annoying bit in Longwatch Falls White March where the fish-people fire down at you from an elevated position, but you can't fire back from where you are.

are you paying attention to the range of your weapons and such? hunting bows, war bows, crossbows, arbalests, and arquebuses have very long ranges of 12m (i forget what the specific weapons being used in that fight are, but looking at youtube videos it looks like sharpshooters are using crossbows or arbalests). very few other effects in the game can match that range. pistols/blunderbusses have a paltry 5-6m range, and i think most spells naturally cap out at 10m. and i think grenade throwing range is less than that.

 

edit - i don't think there's any concept of a high-ground or low-ground range bonus in this game

Edited February 26, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

The problem is that the "world" of Deadfire is actually flat and has no real elevations. It's hand-drawn, isometrical and flat and all elevations are sort of optical illusions. At least that's what it looks like and behaves.

 

Thus, the targeting can be a bit messed up when perceived elevations are involved I guess.

[Rooksx]

I had that gun-toting maniac Maia with an arquebus and Xoti with a crossbow trying to hit the sharpshooters - nothing doing. I get that the world is actually flat, but that makes it even stranger that the guys on the ground can shoot me but I can’t shoot them. No biggie.

[Boeroer]

Yeah I have no idea why the enemy would be able to target Maia and Xoti if the two can't target them back.

[thelee]

I had that gun-toting maniac Maia with an arquebus and Xoti with a crossbow trying to hit the sharpshooters - nothing doing. I get that the world is actually flat, but that makes it even stranger that the guys on the ground can shoot me but I can’t shoot them. No biggie.

i'm not sure boeroer's characterization is completely correct. the problem is that aoe and range detection on the UI is flat, but in-game targeting (not UI treatment) takes into account line of sight and elevation changes. this is frequently notable with ramps - if you try to target an aoe effect you'll be able to affect targets well outside the aoe circle, and it's because effectively the ramp is the hypotenuse of two different triangles:

 

(side view of ramp)

\a
 \
 |\
 --\--  <= targeting circle
    \|
     \

visually a character standing at "a" will look like they are standing oustide the targeting circle, which is flat series of horizontal lines, but they are still included as a target because if you were to flatten the elevations they would be in it (the vertical line indicates where parts of the ramp collapse to on the targeting circle.

 

i wonder if in your situation with tarkir something similar is happening but with line of sight checks; i've been in different-elevation situations where i get an X-ed out targeting circle instead of a normal targeting circle despite things being in range, and I think it's because line of sight does take into account elevation changes so that even a very small cliff, depending on the angle, can "block it.", e.g.

a
--
  \
   \
    \b
     \

just last night i had my wizard standing at "a" in the digsite fight trying to target at boar "b" and was unable to despite the boar being in range, and it seemed to be because if you were to draw a straight line of sight line from a to b, it would intersect with the edge of the platform i was on, even though the fog of war was appropriately revealed. I had to move to the edge of the platform to target b.

 

this is some speculation on how the engine works, but aligns with what i've experienced in-game over many hundreds of hours.

Edited February 27, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

But how would be b be able to target a if a can't target b?

[thelee]

But how would be b be able to target a if a can't target b?

good point - line of sight pretty much has to be mutual if b could see a. consider the speculation murdered.

Edited February 27, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Na - I mean you did a great explanation and I think generally it clears up a lot of things.

 

What would explain it: if a uses his feet to target the feet of b but b uses his eyes to target a's head.

 

OR maybe Rooksx didn't mean that b could target a while a couldn't target b - but maybe there was a c down there who could target a but a couldn't target b which was standing near c.

[Rooksx]

It's po

Na - I mean you did a great explanation and I think generally it clears up a lot of things.

 

What would explain it: if a uses his feet to target the feet of b but b uses his eyes to target a's head.

 

OR maybe Rooksx didn't mean that b could target a while a couldn't target b - but maybe there was a c down there who could target a but a couldn't target b which was standing near c.

It's possible, not sure. I might try again next time there's an opportunity to do so.

[Franknstein]

But how would be b be able to target a if a can't target b?

That ramp near Torkar is weird, it has kinda reversed LoS, one can't see and shoot down from above. On the Digsight, to the other hand, one can see and shoot the boars, and they can't see and engage you.